#1
Ok, I'm Italian and I've always wanted my music to portray my heritage. So I asked my guitar teacher about it and he said that there are Italian scales, russian scales, hungarian, iraqi, german, ect. He said that thats how each country gets their own sound and "flavor" for their music.

But when I look these up on the internet they are nowhere to be found. So does anyone know of a site with these different "foreign" scales? Specifically Italian.

Thanks in advance.
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#2
Check out the Guitar Grimoires

This one I know has different 'foreign' scales in it. I don't own it, but I have perused it at Borders

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Carl-Fischer-Guitar-Grimoire-Book?sku=902870

From the looks of it most of the scales have movable patterns... so just memorize that pattern and you're set. I would have bought it but I was short on cash
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#3
I have never seen an Italian scale. There are a million scales at this site, i didn't see Italian though:

http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/guitar/index_rb.html


Edit: to below, lol. just beat you to it.
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#4
theres a website that has all the scales for you
http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/
Try and see which scale sounds "Italian" to you
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#5
thanks alot! these sites are great.
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#7
Well, Italy just uses the same scales as everyone else in the western world, major, its modes, harmonic minor. Consider that most "classical" musical markings are Italian words. You'd be better off looking at traditional Italian songs to see how their used.
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#9
Go to www.myguitarsolo.com then click on guitar scales. Once you have done this, there should be a table with a load of scales in it, click on 'Exotic scales', in this section you will find Neapolitan major and minor scales.
#10
Quote by angus is god
Ok, I'm Italian and I've always wanted my music to portray my heritage. So I asked my guitar teacher about it and he said that there are Italian scales, russian scales, hungarian, iraqi, german, ect. He said that thats how each country gets their own sound and "flavor" for their music.

But when I look these up on the internet they are nowhere to be found. So does anyone know of a site with these different "foreign" scales? Specifically Italian.

Thanks in advance.
Your guitar teacher is an idiot. There are no magical scales that will magically sound like a country's culture.

I am also italian heritaged. The music I remember to be italian sounded italian because of the rhthym behind it. Normally it has a bass note and than 1 or 2 staccoto treble chords. Like a waltz. Sort of reminds me of really early classical music.

I dont know much about russian folk music. All thats coming to mind is korbeiniki. But trust me, that song uses the major scale. So does german folk music. I think hungarian music uses different elements of the minor scales. Regardless, most european folk music is fairly diatonic.

All musical cultures, except some arabian cultured music, is based off the pentatonics scale in some way. It's the magic of the pentatonic scale, that allmost every culture around the world would use this same scale without being even slightly related.
#11
Quote by demonofthenight
Your guitar teacher is an idiot. There are no magical scales that will magically sound like a country's culture.


You are incorrect. You should be careful so you don't sound like an idiot.

Chinese- 1,2,4,5,6
Balinese- 1,b2,b3,5,b6
Byzantine- 1,b2,3,4,5,b6,7
Egyptian- 1,2,4,5,b7
Ethiopian (A raray)- 1,2,3,4,5,6,7
Ethiopian (Geez & Ezel)- 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
Hawaiian- 1,2,b3,4,5,6,7
Hindu- 1,2,3,4,5,b6,b7
Hungarian Major- 1,#2,3,#4,5,6,b7
Hungarian Gypsy- 1,2,b3,#4,5,b6,7
Japanese (Ichikosucho)- 1,2,3,4,#4,5,6,7
Japanese (Taishikicho)- 1,2,3,4,#4,5,6,#6,7

To name a few. There is a wealth of many, many other culturally unique scales that can help you attain a sound similar to the music of that culture's. You can find them all here.
#12
You still have to use it right to sound like that country's culture. The scale doesn't do it by itself, so there still aren't any scales that automatically sound like a countries culture. And look at it diatonically, which is what demon said.

Chinese is can be found in ionian.
Balinese can be found in phrygian.
Egyptian can be found in Dorian, Mixolydian, or Aeolian.
Ethiopian (a raray) is Ionian.
Ethiopian (Geez&Ezel) is Aeolian.
Hawaiian is Melodic Minor (not truly diatonic).
In other words, They are still quite diatonically rooted. The others are only a few notes different as well.

Close to diatonic:

Hindu is Mixolydian b6.
Japanese Ichikosucho is Ionian add#4.
Japanese Taishikicho is Ionian add#4 and #6.
Last edited by TheShred201 at Jun 16, 2008,
#13
Quote by Donswald
You are incorrect. You should be careful so you don't sound like an idiot.

Chinese- 1,2,4,5,6
Balinese- 1,b2,b3,5,b6
Byzantine- 1,b2,3,4,5,b6,7
Egyptian- 1,2,4,5,b7
Ethiopian (A raray)- 1,2,3,4,5,6,7
Ethiopian (Geez & Ezel)- 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
Hawaiian- 1,2,b3,4,5,6,7
Hindu- 1,2,3,4,5,b6,b7
Hungarian Major- 1,#2,3,#4,5,6,b7
Hungarian Gypsy- 1,2,b3,#4,5,b6,7
Japanese (Ichikosucho)- 1,2,3,4,#4,5,6,7
Japanese (Taishikicho)- 1,2,3,4,#4,5,6,#6,7

To name a few. There is a wealth of many, many other culturally unique scales that can help you attain a sound similar to the music of that culture's. You can find them all here.
You are incorrect. You should be careful so you don't post like an idiot. All those scales are inversions of either 1 of the minor scales or the major scale. And some of them are just plain stupid and unusable.

Rhthym and phrasing and note choice has more of an impact of what you will sound like, not which scale you choose.
#15
Quote by Donswald
You are incorrect. You should be careful so you don't sound like an idiot.

Chinese- 1,2,4,5,6
Balinese- 1,b2,b3,5,b6
Byzantine- 1,b2,3,4,5,b6,7
Egyptian- 1,2,4,5,b7
Ethiopian (A raray)- 1,2,3,4,5,6,7
Ethiopian (Geez & Ezel)- 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
Hawaiian- 1,2,b3,4,5,6,7
Hindu- 1,2,3,4,5,b6,b7
Hungarian Major- 1,#2,3,#4,5,6,b7
Hungarian Gypsy- 1,2,b3,#4,5,b6,7
Japanese (Ichikosucho)- 1,2,3,4,#4,5,6,7
Japanese (Taishikicho)- 1,2,3,4,#4,5,6,#6,7

To name a few. There is a wealth of many, many other culturally unique scales that can help you attain a sound similar to the music of that culture's. You can find them all here.


No, you're still the idiot. Those are just colloquial names for pre-existing Western scales that aren't even used in the countries they're named after. Your "Hawaiian scale" is, in fact, melodic minor.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#16
Quote by demonofthenight
You are incorrect. You should be careful so you don't post like an idiot. All those scales are inversions of either 1 of the minor scales or the major scale. And some of them are just plain stupid and unusable.

Rhthym and phrasing and note choice has more of an impact of what you will sound like, not which scale you choose.


Actually, I wasn't incorrect- I didn't say in my original post that these scales were independent and seperate from the major and minor scales, simply that these cultures utilize them to acheive their cultural sound. And it's obvious that composition would matter more. Furthermore, theshred pointed out that some of them are unique- such as Hindu, Japanese Ichikosucho, Japanese Taishikicho. Of course these can be explained in one way or another as variations on a previously established scale- theory provides this frame of reference.

And Arch, how do you know they aren't used in the countries they're named after? What's your source?
#17
simply that these cultures utilize them to acheive their cultural sound.


They don't. In the grand scheme of the music, the scale you use is very nearly irrelevant.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#18
Quote by Archeo Avis
They don't. In the grand scheme of the music, the scale you use is very nearly irrelevant.


Well I find it hard to take you seriously. I have no reason to consider you an authority on theory, and I am considerably familiar with its nuances myself. Your statement is a ludicrous one because the scale sets the mood of the song. Music is intended to make people feel, and that makes the scale very important. Reinhardt's "Minor Swing" wouldn't be the same if he had used a major scale, this is very obvious.
#19
Quote by Donswald
Well I find it hard to take you seriously. I have no reason to consider you an authority on theory, and I am considerably familiar with its nuances myself. Your statement is a ludicrous one because the scale sets the mood of the song. Music is intended to make people feel, and that makes the scale very important. Reinhardt's "Minor Swing" wouldn't be the same if he had used a major scale, this is very obvious.

He's one of about 15 people to be approved of enough be the forum as a whole to be listed in the who to listen to thread. That should be all the reason you need.
#20
Quote by Donswald
Well I find it hard to take you seriously. I have no reason to consider you an authority on theory, and I am considerably familiar with its nuances myself. Your statement is a ludicrous one because the scale sets the mood of the song. Music is intended to make people feel, and that makes the scale very important. Reinhardt's "Minor Swing" wouldn't be the same if he had used a major scale, this is very obvious.


There are many factors that go into a song, and the scale used is one of the least important. Any culture you can think of has distinctive musical characteristics that are vastly more important in determining their unique sound than the scale that they use.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#21
Quote by demonofthenight
Your guitar teacher is an idiot. There are no magical scales that will magically sound like a country's culture.

I am also italian heritaged. The music I remember to be italian sounded italian because of the rhthym behind it. Normally it has a bass note and than 1 or 2 staccoto treble chords. Like a waltz. Sort of reminds me of really early classical music.

I dont know much about russian folk music. All thats coming to mind is korbeiniki. But trust me, that song uses the major scale. So does german folk music. I think hungarian music uses different elements of the minor scales. Regardless, most european folk music is fairly diatonic.

All musical cultures, except some arabian cultured music, is based off the pentatonics scale in some way. It's the magic of the pentatonic scale, that allmost every culture around the world would use this same scale without being even slightly related.



Hey, I'm just telling you what his teacher told him. His teacher graduated with a doctorite in music and honors from Julliard.

I'm not trying to argue with you, but he said that each country "customized" the scales to fit their type of music. Thus when we think of a certain country we also think of a certain type of music being played.

But thats just my interpretation of it.
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#22
There are many factors that go into a song, and the scale used is one of the least important.

Without a scale you have no basis for forming chords; or tonal music for that matter.

What's more important?
#23
What Arch means is that you can play the same scale different ways and achieve very different sounds. That's why we get all these people in here saying, "I'm tired of playing blues licks...I want to play like Hammett and Mustaine!"

Quote by angus is god
Hey, I'm just telling you what his teacher told him. His teacher graduated with a doctorite in music and honors from Julliard.
Source?
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Jun 16, 2008,
#24
Quote by Archeo Avis
They don't. In the grand scheme of the music, the scale you use is very nearly irrelevant.


I wouldn't say the scale is that trivial. Phrasing and rhythm is very very important but using the correct scale is important too. Blues wouldn't sound like blues if it used all diminished substitutions w/ blues phrasing.
#25
Those scales exist, but the ability to use(and alter) the basic scales effectively blows using them out of the water. Personally, I think the odd scales were formed from people noticing common alterations to the major or minor scale(or their modes) in a particular style/culture/etc., and then attaching these alterations and the "new" scale formed by them to said style/culture/etc.
Last edited by grampastumpy at Jun 16, 2008,
#26
^+1
Quote by Donswald
Reinhardt's "Minor Swing" wouldn't be the same if he had used a major scale, this is very obvious.
*facepalm*
That sonds melody is written so chromatically you cant say it uses a definite scale. It's called minor swings because the chord progression is minor.

Quote by 5/4
Without a scale you have no basis for forming chords; or tonal music for that matter.
Chord progressions dont need to follow scales, they can though (and usually do if your writing major based songs). But, having a chord progression harmonized right out of the natural minor scale isnt very wise when your aiming to write in minor.

But even if they did, it would only support my point further. The only scales that create, well sounding, stable chord progressions are the major scale and the minor scale.
#27
Quote by demonofthenight
^+1*facepalm*
That sonds melody is written so chromatically you cant say it uses a definite scale. It's called minor swings because the chord progression is minor.

Chord progressions dont need to follow scales, they can though (and usually do if your writing major based songs). But, having a chord progression harmonized right out of the natural minor scale isnt very wise when your aiming to write in minor.

But even if they did, it would only support my point further. The only scales that create, well sounding, stable chord progressions are the major scale and the minor scale.


What 5/4 said was that scales are the basis for forming chords. As in, a G major scale is used to construct a G major chord. He said nothing about progressions- that was your misinterpretation.

And I didn't single out the melody in minor swing- I was talking about the song as a whole. The chord progression, as you said, is minor- and that is what creates the emotional impact of the song, which supports my point.

It seems to me that you were in a hurry to talk down to the comments you replied to. Breathe, man, we're having a discussion- we're not having an argument.
#28
Quote by Donswald
What 5/4 said was that scales are the basis for forming chords. As in, a G major scale is used to construct a G major chord. He said nothing about progressions- that was your misinterpretation.

And I didn't single out the melody in minor swing- I was talking about the song as a whole. The chord progression, as you said, is minor- and that is what creates the emotional impact of the song, which supports my point.

It seems to me that you were in a hurry to talk down to the comments you replied to. Breathe, man, we're having a discussion- we're not having an argument.
Sure, why not. But my original point stands. Theres no point to 'exotic' scales.
#29
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Source?



If I knew his name I would tell you, but he teaches music classes at a University near me. A pretty high end uni. I'd never be able to get into it.
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#30
Quote by Donswald
You are incorrect. You should be careful so you don't sound like an idiot.

Chinese- 1,2,4,5,6
Balinese- 1,b2,b3,5,b6
Byzantine- 1,b2,3,4,5,b6,7
Egyptian- 1,2,4,5,b7
Ethiopian (A raray)- 1,2,3,4,5,6,7
Ethiopian (Geez & Ezel)- 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
Hawaiian- 1,2,b3,4,5,6,7
Hindu- 1,2,3,4,5,b6,b7
Hungarian Major- 1,#2,3,#4,5,6,b7
Hungarian Gypsy- 1,2,b3,#4,5,b6,7
Japanese (Ichikosucho)- 1,2,3,4,#4,5,6,7
Japanese (Taishikicho)- 1,2,3,4,#4,5,6,#6,7

To name a few. There is a wealth of many, many other culturally unique scales that can help you attain a sound similar to the music of that culture's. You can find them all here.


Some of those countries don't even use the same tonal system we do, they sure as hell don't use our scales. India doesn't have A B C D E F G. Why do you think sitars sound so exotic? It's not just because of their timbre, but because they use totally different notes.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


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#31
Quote by DaddyTwoFoot
Some of those countries don't even use the same tonal system we do, they sure as hell don't use our scales. India doesn't have A B C D E F G. Why do you think sitars sound so exotic? It's not just because of their timbre, but because they use totally different notes.


Well yea actually that's true. The foreign scales I posted are like a western interpretation of these country's scales, a way of describing them simply. Japan and India, like you said, among other countries, tune their notes to completely different frequencies that fall between notes in the 12-note chromatic scale.
#32
Well yea actually that's true. The foreign scales I posted are like a western interpretation of these country's scales, a way of describing them simply

So you haven't just ripped them off Guitar Pro?
Call me Batman.
#33
Quote by J.A.M
So you haven't just ripped them off Guitar Pro?


Nah I posted the site I ripped them off of earlier. But I did rip them off. I didn't mean to say the scales were my own interpretations, just interpretations.
#34
90% of unexperienced guitarists on UG thinks that scales are everything. I seen people asking for scales that sound ''Ninja'', ''Pirate'', romantic, sad, Japanese, gray and trippy.

So threadstarter, why don't you take the harder way? Listen to some Italian folk music, try to play some Italian folk music, investigate on Italian folk music... if you are so interested in it.
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#35
The foreign scales I posted are like a western interpretation of these country's scales


No, they aren't. Most of them are just modes of the major, harmonic minor, or melodic minor scales.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#36
Arch, what I'm saying is that, while all these scales are based off the modes you mentioned, they are similar to the Penatonic Blues scales- they can be transcribed as derivatives of the modes of the major, harmonic minor, and melodic minor scales, but still manage to be unique, and develop a seperate sound. Look here- the first site even explains how the scales are derived from the modes-

http://www.medianmusic.com/ScaleForeign.html

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php
#37
Quote by angus is god
If I knew his name I would tell you, but he teaches music classes at a University near me. A pretty high end uni. I'd never be able to get into it.
Until such time that you verify these claims, I have a PhD in Music Theory and teach at Temple University. I don't.
#38
Phrasing ftw
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#39
Very rarely does music in any country rely entirely on scales. It's most often combined with a fitting rhythm, the right phrasing, and whatever cultural nuance the piece calls for. It's not always notes. It may be timbre. It may be the fact that in some countries, they utilize more than 12 tones per octave.
#40
For foreign scales i love the Hungarian Persian Gypsy...yes it's a real scale and it sounds really awesome
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