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#1
Ive always found it very odd that such a large amount of incredibly good Swedish bands from the early nineties really lost allot of quality as the went on in their career while often releasing masterpieces in their earlier stages. Entombed,Dismember,Katatonia,At The Gates,Tiamat,Dark Tranquillity ect. What do you think is the reason for this massive trend ?. Bands who once made raw,emotional and captivating metal all faded away into bland parodies of their older work. Most new Swedish metal seems to be either rip offs of Slaughter Of The Soul or melodeath of equal blandness. And of course i know their are exceptions with bands like Deathspell Omega or Bloodbath. But seeing classic timeless albums like The Gallery,The Red Sky Is Ours or Dance Of December Souls being under the same moniker as such generic and lifeless albums as Slaughter Of The Soul,Damage Done or Viva Emptiness is a bit unsettling to me personally. Opinions ?
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#3
Opeth?
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#5
I think DT are still going strong. Fiction was a great record.
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#7
My point was more so what your guy`s opinions on what caused the decline. Opeth is good but fairly hit and miss for me. I know i forgot a large amount of bands in my post. I just find it odd that so many bands music got so much worse all in this general scene.
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Acid probably makes you feel less like a hedonistic raver piece of trash, too.

#8
Quote by Riffmast
My point was more so what your guy`s opinions on what caused the decline. Opeth is good but fairly hit and miss for me. I know i forgot a large amount of bands in my post. I just find it odd that so many bands music got so much worse all in this general scene.

Some bands going with the core-scene, and bands changing members? Don't know. Is this just a problem exclusive to Sweden?
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#9
Dark Tranquillity, I think, is still going pretty strong. Entombed got boring for me real fast, At the Gates got better in my opinion (But definitly became less creative in their songwriting), and Dismembered just kinda got boring. In Flames, in my opinion, is the most tragic, though. Like, I could listen to Gyroscope and feel genuine beauty and grace in the music, and then I see this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vF8ldaRTkB8
#10
You can generally say that about most bands. As time goes on, people run out of ideas and the music gets stagnant. There are bands that defy that generalization, but most bands do have that decline. I don't think it pertains just to Swedish bands.
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#12
This is not exclusive for sweden. Lots of bands wither away with time. They get older, they're not as angry, their state of mind changes, and so does the writing.
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#13
While not a problem only in Sweden i find it more prominent then say America . I personally find that bands like Morbid Angel, Suffocation,Immolation,Gorguts, Incantation ect All stayed consistent or got better as they went on.But so many of the classic Swedish bands seemed to loose it. Even Opeth in my opinion is on a decline at this point.
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Acid probably makes you feel less like a hedonistic raver piece of trash, too.

#14
Quote by Riffmast
While not a problem only in Sweden i find it more prominent then say America . I personally find that bands like Morbid Angel, Suffocation,Immolation,Gorguts, Incantation ect All stayed consistent or got better as they went on.But so many of the classic Swedish bands seemed to loose it. Even Opeth in my opinion is on a decline at this point.

ABBA never lost it.
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#16
Not every band can release materials that can top their previous album and so and so forth. You can't tell me that after playing the same genre of music for a decade or so you can't become a little bored.
#18
Quote by Riffmast
While not a problem only in Sweden i find it more prominent then say America . I personally find that bands like Morbid Angel, Suffocation,Immolation,Gorguts, Incantation ect All stayed consistent or got better as they went on.But so many of the classic Swedish bands seemed to loose it. Even Opeth in my opinion is on a decline at this point.


I happen to completely disagree.

Opeth are just as good, if not better. And I happen to think (and I know I'm not alone on this one either) that Slaughter of the Soul was brilliant.

Dead-fish is correct. It's something that happens with most bands.
Last edited by Delanoir at Jun 18, 2008,
#20
Most bands run out of ideas within the first few years of their existence. It's just the nature of the beast, a built in part of the structure of the music business. Most metal bands peak with their second release (and most of the rest peak with their debut). Scenes are vital for 2-5 years, then they collapse under the bloat of mediocrity as founding acts stagnate and the bandwagon jumping nobodies crowd out any hope of continuing excellence.
Last edited by Laeth MacLaurie at Jun 18, 2008,
#21
i don't know about that in regards to dark tranquillity and in flames...dt have stayed pretty consistent, and whilst in floames had that crappy nu metal phase they seem to be back on track. while they're not redoing the jester race, they are doing good, thrashy melodeath, and saying they're not melodeath and turned nu metal doesn't apply for the present.

but, as always, this is all down to opinion.
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#22
Quote by darkstar2466
You can generally say that about most bands. As time goes on, people run out of ideas and the music gets stagnant. There are bands that defy that generalization, but most bands do have that decline. I don't think it pertains just to Swedish bands.


This is pretty much what i was going to say.


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#23
All genres become more commercial (and hence less liked by the old-school fans) once the bands start signing to major labels. The same has happened with Norwegian metal since Satyricon signed to Capitol.
#24
Dark Tranquillity has been doing great lately, I loved Fiction. Dismembers latest was nowhere near their older albums but still listenable. Entombed's latest had a few highlights, nothing to write home about, but still listenable, and they still got the energy live.
So the swedish DM bands aren't doing horrible, but they probably won't return to their former glory, it can happen to everyone. You're going to run out of ideas sooner or later.
#25
Quote by smb
All genres become more commercial (and hence less liked by the old-school fans) once the bands start signing to major labels. The same has happened with Norwegian metal since Satyricon signed to Capitol.

I have to disagree with this one. If you only like old-school black metal, so be it, but there's constantly been new Norwegian bands around to reinnovate the genre. If anything, the worst things that have happened in the Norwegian metal scene is all the metal bands disbanding despite the fact that they're still making incredibly good music. Emperor and Immortal are very good examples - their final albums were great. New bands enter the scene and come up with new music - bands like 1349, Arcturus and Enslaved.

Satyricon has sold out, but they've always been overrated, in my opinion. In their case we might be talking about a decline, but in the overall Norwegian metal scene, you can't.
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#26
Not everyone wants to play the same material.

Some bands, y'know, like to make different music. Say, a band wants to originally make massively brutal death metal. Fair enough, then ten years down the line they start make simple melodeath. Yet again, fine. Not much we can do about it, it is their band...

Oh, and it's not just in Swedish bands
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#27
I think it's the exposure to the rest of the world. Back then, bands like Dark Tranquillity and In Flames were making original music, all from their own ideas. As time went on though, they became aware of metalcore and other new emerging genres of music. They adaped to these, and what they used to be is almost gone now.
#28
On a totally different note, some of you people are kidding yourselves if you think what Dark Tranquility and Dismember are doing now is even remotely comparable in quality to what these bands were doing early in their careers. Opeth has remained at a fairly level plane from a quality standpoint, but that's because they never really had any ideas to begin with.
#29
Quote by Riffmast
Ive always found it very odd that such a large amount of incredibly good Swedish bands from the early nineties really lost allot of quality as the went on in their career while often releasing masterpieces in their earlier stages. Entombed,Dismember,Katatonia,At The Gates,Tiamat,Dark Tranquillity ect. What do you think is the reason for this massive trend ?. Bands who once made raw,emotional and captivating metal all faded away into bland parodies of their older work. Most new Swedish metal seems to be either rip offs of Slaughter Of The Soul or melodeath of equal blandness. And of course i know their are exceptions with bands like Deathspell Omega or Bloodbath. But seeing classic timeless albums like The Gallery,The Red Sky Is Ours or Dance Of December Souls being under the same moniker as such generic and lifeless albums as Slaughter Of The Soul,Damage Done or Viva Emptiness is a bit unsettling to me personally. Opinions ?



Deathspell Omega are French, mate.

And come on man, most bands do run out of ideas as time goes on, I say fair play for having the balls to change their sound. I personally dont like later works by most of those bands, but lots of other people do.
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#30
I don't see how Katatonia's new stuff is remotely a parody of their early stuff. They are still good, but they changed styles. So what?

Bands change. Oh no.
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#31
Quote by Riffmast
such generic and lifeless albums as Slaughter Of The Soul,Damage Done or Viva Emptiness


I stopped here.
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#32
Quote by Stranglehold
Deathspell Omega are French, mate.

And come on man, most bands do run out of ideas as time goes on, I say fair play for having the balls to change their sound. I personally dont like later works by most of those bands, but lots of other people do.


Ahh thats my bad. Someone referred them to me as 'swedens best kept secret ", once and i was going off of that and a few albums i have by them.

They all grew up.
If making redundant music,running out of good riffs and conforming to the mass for commercial benefit is all part growing up. Then take me to neverland please!!!

To Slaytanic1993 : I'm not suggesting that we attempt to do something about it. At the end of their day it is their call. But as fans we should be wondering why such strong scenes get stagnant in so little time. And while this is not a phenomena only found in Sweden i can't think of any of country that has as many examples of musical decay as them. For the Opeth thing from what I've heard of their newer material they are really falling into a trap of "Prog for the sake prog and not good music", it gets to the point where single brilliant ideas will actually be ruined by passages coming 10 seconds later.

finally: I made one last mistake, and i would just like to clarify. I listed Gorguts as an American metal band witch they clearly are not. But it still seems to me that The Americas for the most part kept making excellent metal while Sweden lost allot of drive with both scenes starting around the same time..

I don't see how Katatonia's new stuff is remotely a parody of their early stuff. They are still good, but they changed styles. So what?

While Viva Emptiness was pretty terrible. Some of Katatonia's later work is good stuff. I suppose they weren't the best example to use.It is still nowhere near the quality of the original material though i find.And of course this is all based off opinion.
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#33
Our Black Metal bands havn't changed that much. But yes, I agree that most of the bands have lost their magic.
#34
Quote by dead-fish
I think DT are still going strong. Fiction was a great record.



I, personally, thought Damage Done was a good album, too.
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#35
Quote by Riffmast
generic and lifeless albums as Slaughter Of The Soul,Damage Done or Viva Emptiness is a bit unsettling to me personally


What?
#36
I find those albums very bland and the structuring, riffing style , overall aesthetic does next to nothing for me.
Quote by Steve08
Acid probably makes you feel less like a hedonistic raver piece of trash, too.

#37
New Dark Tranquillity is better than old Dark Tranquillity. They've never had a bad album, but I'll take Character, Fiction, and Projector over The Gallery and The Mind's I.

But most bands just start to lose it as they get older. They have a couple of great albums and then then they either get stagnant or sell out (the former more often than the later).
#38
I realize that almost everyone here is going to disagree with me, but the Swedish scene started sucking pretty much in the mid 90s. In the early 90s, there were bands like Grave (probably my favorite, Into the Grave is so awesome), Entombed, Dismember, Unleashed. All awesome stuff, even the first At the Gates album is cool. But by the time you have In Flames running around, and At the Gates releasing Slaughter of the Soul, the end was nigh.

Although I find it funny that At the Gates have broken up, and In Flames suck even more ass now. Grave's new album was alright, and Death Breath (basically Entombed) kick ass.
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#39
^ Death Breath does indeed kick some major ass.
New Dark Tranquillity is better than old Dark Tranquillity
please explain yourselves further. To me anything after The Mind's I is trash. What is it about newer Dark Tranquility that you like more ?
Quote by Steve08
Acid probably makes you feel less like a hedonistic raver piece of trash, too.

#40
Quote by Riffmast
I find those albums very bland and the structuring, riffing style , overall aesthetic does next to nothing for me.


The problem with At the Gates isn't difficult to solve: Alf Svennson, who had the dominant creative voice on Gardens of Grief, The Red in the Sky is Ours and about half of With Fear I Kiss the Burning Darkness, left the band.
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