#1
they have nothing really good to say about shredders?All i hear is that it's a jack-off fest and things of that nature,and that they don't feel anything?
#3
Well mostly because its nothing more then hand exersices and finger board patterns repeated over and over again really fast.
#4
Quote by Pizza The Hut
Well mostly because its nothing more then hand exersices and finger board patterns repeated over and over again really fast.

this.




listen to 'I can't play the blues' by Ron Thal

or the whole of the electric tears album by buckethead.

or anything by Govan or Lane.
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#5
Well I guess if that stuff floats your boat there is nothing wrong with it.... like what you want to listen to.

But personally I find it boring to listen to some douche play exotic scales rehearsed at 200 bpm ala Petrucci, Batio or Vai for hours that has no direction or purpose.

I go for stuff like songwritting and emotional content rather then how many scales a guy can play in under 10 seconds.
#6
Quote by Pizza The Hut
I go for stuff like songwritting and emotional content rather then how many scales a guy can play in under 10 seconds.


There are a couple of things wrong with that:

1 - I cannot think of a single shredder who considers themselves to be not serving the song, all the great shredders concentrate a lot more on songwriting than just soloing.

2 - There is not limit on emotion; just because something is fast doesn't mean it has no emotional content, you just don't understand it.

3 - If you think it is just scales you need to listen a whole lot more carefully; a lot of the greatest shredders use complex patterns that contain a lot of harmonic complexity, I can think of very few songs that contain straight runs up a scale as anything other than a lead into a bigger solo.
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#7
Quote by Pizza The Hut
Well I guess if that stuff floats your boat there is nothing wrong with it.... like what you want to listen to.

But personally I find it boring to listen to some douche play exotic scales rehearsed at 200 bpm ala Petrucci, Batio or Vai for hours that has no direction or purpose.

I go for stuff like songwritting and emotional content rather then how many scales a guy can play in under 10 seconds.


Most of us don't listen for the speed itself. As for myself, I listen for composition and strong melodies. Try the Fire Garden Suite by Steve Vai and give it a chance. It is a great song with many different themes and tasteful passages. You might change your mind about "shredding".
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#8
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
There are a couple of things wrong with that:

1 - I cannot think of a single shredder who considers themselves to be not serving the song, all the great shredders concentrate a lot more on songwriting than just soloing.

2 - There is not limit on emotion; just because something is fast doesn't mean it has no emotional content, you just don't understand it.

3 - If you think it is just scales you need to listen a whole lot more carefully; a lot of the greatest shredders use complex patterns that contain a lot of harmonic complexity, I can think of very few songs that contain straight runs up a scale as anything other than a lead into a bigger solo.


This. And all of it.
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Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#9
Oh and I forgot to say:

Lots of 'shred' songs actually follow a very standard verse-chorus etc structure, it's just that people don't listen for it because they assume that an instrumental piece has none of these things. Listen to "For the Love of God" by Steve Vai, "Damage Contol" by John Petrucci, "Fives" by Guthrie Govan, "Cryin'" by Joe Satriani or "Rusty Old Boat" by Paul Gilbert and you should hear (if you're actually listening) clearly defined themes with variations, restatements and more often than not clear solo sections where they just go a bit crazy. Fives is a bit of a grey area but Guthrie is a jazz musician so of course his music will be in the jazz form with a theme or two and lots of improvisation over the changes.

On the subject of Buckethead, which is another of the 'no emotion' brigade's favorites: Listen to just about any song from the album "Enter the Chicken" and you'll hear a finely crafted song that might have a shredded solo in it but at the same time may not and is bound to awesome with the song only complimented by his guitar work rather than centered around it.


Also, to end: why is it that fast sections in classical music on pianos, violins, wind instruments and the like are seen to be a fine example of technique whereas whenever a guitarist plays more than 16ths at about 180bpm it's seen as being "wank"?
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
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#10
It's got a lot to with bandwagon jumping as well, for a variety of reasons. Many ignorance fools (e.g Pizza) who haven't heard the actual music will just label shredders as scale generating machines because others are doing it.

Oh, and quite often, those people are pretty bad at playing, and will spend the next 5 years playing out-of-tune bends and ****ty and trite phrasing in a box position.

Anyway, just tell them to lick your nuts and go on your merry way, crank some Guthrie Govan (just finished listening to his EC album a second ago) on your music player and have a blast.
#11
Quote by Pizza The Hut
Well I guess if that stuff floats your boat there is nothing wrong with it.... like what you want to listen to.

But personally I find it boring to listen to some douche play exotic scales rehearsed at 200 bpm ala Petrucci, Batio or Vai for hours that has no direction or purpose.

I go for stuff like songwritting and emotional content rather then how many scales a guy can play in under 10 seconds.



umm yea so your a guitar noob obviously. shredders happen to be the most intelligent of musicians and take in to much account (i do as well) in serving to song and matching up with the chord progressions qualities, placing tonal centers on differnt notes to get more exotic feels to them. Blues players just hate the fact that shredders come up with more ways to use that already played out "penta-boring" scale. ITS 5 NOTES IN THE SAME KEY!! jeez-la-weez find something new.

btw jason becker has some awesome pentatonic lick thats just awesome. "The Legendary Guitar of Jason Becker" < best DVD EVER!
#13
Quote by Freepower
Omg +10.

No, seriously, everything i was ever going to say on the subject.



Whoo, I know it all!

Seriously though, I had this argument with my Dad a few weeks ago so I've got all the arguments I used against him backed up in my head for an occasion such as this. He lost
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#14
they believe real music only believes of 1 note played over and over again and being bent because it's played with feeling. w/e i believe all music has feeling except for like techno and ****. that's like nazi music lol.
#15
lol at 'shredders' and 'bluesmen' they both can't see how ignorant they both are. the bluesmen are jealous of the shredders speed and so comment on how they have no feeling, and the shredders get all cut and cry about how they do have feeling in their playing... Umm, maybe some do, but most 'shrederz' are do just pick the strings as fast as they can (not saying the ones in good bands, just people you see around the place who play guitar) but i do think dimebag had a heap of soul and could whoop ass with his licks. however, so called blues players only call themselves that because they only know pentatonics in one possition and just repeat the same crappy phrases over and over trying to be eric clapton (so overated) or jimi hendrix, like i do did for a very long time. but then there a real legends like Gilmour, who took the blues and made it more melodic and contermpry, or SRV who just took all blues things and rolled them into an epic package. thats my favourite style, but w/e, i respect people who can shred it up, they can after all play the guitar better, there is no doubt
Originally Posted by Kill Factory
If you want to play some emo music, I recommend using these settings:


Gain: 0
Bass: 0
Mid: 0
Treble: 0

Master Volume: 0

HAHA!
#16
Fast and Clean > Slow and Sloppy.

Blues people can't appreciate the hard work put into shredding, so they just find bull**** things to say about them.

Listen to anything off Jason Becker's Perpetual Burn album, Shawn Lane's Powers of Ten, Marty Friedman's Scenes, Guthrie Govan's Erotica Cakes.
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#17
true, but slow and clean >fast and sloppy. just one thing i have to add, shredders try to sound 'tough' a lot of the time, and they do all the sweeping and tremolo picking, tapping, exotic scales ect. and yet it winds up sounding wimpy, like a humingbird flapping its wings, so easily crushed by a few choice notes. example, James Hetfield's solo in nothing else matters, and dimebags solo in mouth for war totally own most solo in metal songs, they're so much stronger and more kick ass. so there is a use for shredding, but i don't think that to sound tough or angry is a good reason to tap or sweep pick, but it can be used beautifuly in a melodic song
Originally Posted by Kill Factory
If you want to play some emo music, I recommend using these settings:


Gain: 0
Bass: 0
Mid: 0
Treble: 0

Master Volume: 0

HAHA!
#18
Quote by MetalMusicianAl
they believe real music only believes of 1 note played over and over again and being bent because it's played with feeling. w/e i believe all music has feeling except for like techno and ****. that's like nazi music lol.

The man has a point... Give DJ silly a bass and it won't go very far, eh?
While I myself can't really find much to like about a lot of shred (appreciate the technical skills... it just bores me, thats' all...)
And for the whole 'Speed vs. emotion' arguement, think about it on one level. Whatever comes out of that guitar is what the player wanted to do, so theres' gonna be emotion behind it, whether its' the 'last orders blues' or... God only know what with shred, theres' something there.
(Although petrucci always sounds like the god-damned Tetris theme, I'll say that now )
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#19
Quote by cobaindrix
true, but slow and clean >fast and sloppy.


yes, which is why most shredders don't like to say that shred is about speed. the best shred artists are those who have good clean technique, regardless at what speed they play. You have players like Shawn lane, buckethead, Guthrie Govan, Vai and Andy Timmons who don't always play at full tilt and yet they're some of the best shredders in the world.

Quote by cobaindrix
just one thing i have to add, shredders try to sound 'tough' a lot of the time

so you're a mind reader now? 'shredding' is done in metal because metal is a genre where the emphasis is (usually) put on aggression, speed and complexity. they do it because it fits the song.

and yet it winds up sounding wimpy, like a humingbird flapping its wings, so easily crushed by a few choice notes. example, James Hetfield's solo in nothing else matters, and dimebags solo in mouth for war totally own most solo in metal songs, they're so much stronger and more kick ass.

now that's just a matter of opinion. I personally can't stand the solo in nothing else matters and mouth for war isn't in the same league as I'm broken IMO.

so there is a use for shredding, but i don't think that to sound tough or angry is a good reason to tap or sweep pick, but it can be used beautifuly in a melodic song

who are you to say how and why someone can play a certain way. How would you like it if somebody came up to you in a writing session and said 'oh no, you're not allowed to use the D string' or 'no chords allowed, they're only to be used for acoustic songs and nothing else'?

also, why do you seem to believe shred=metal?
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.