#1
hey, i was revisin 2day for ma physics exam and i thourght of a theory. I am shure it is wrong but I just want to know why. ok. Black holes pull everything with a mass into them and they can pull in light so if light did not have any mass at all how would it be pulled in (one idea of mine is its the stuff the light is on that is bieng pulled in but seeing as space is meant to be a vacuum how is that possible) the second point off this is that if light had even the tiniest mass possible due to the fact it travels at the speed of light it's mass would be infinate (based on Newton's law that says that anything travelling at the speed of light has a infinate mass. This is obviously not true because otherwise we would be instantly crushed by light. But why is it incorrect. I know a bit about "dark matter" is it because of this that the light appears to be pulled into the black hole? As far as i know that cant be true as dark matter does nothing to light as it is baisically nothing.

Anyway, any answers appreciated, I am very confused by this but shure there is an explanation maybe that is REALLY obvious.
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#2
I think you should concentrate on English more.

But I don't know, you got me thinking.
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#3
Light acts as both a wave and a particle.

Particles have mass.

There's a whole lot of complicated physics behind it, but I don't really understand it.
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#5
No, it actually bends light towards it.....there is a photo to prove it, i will try and find it for you
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#6
Quote by metacarpi
Light acts as both a wave and a particle.

Particles have mass.

There's a whole lot of complicated physics behind it, but I don't really understand it.

According to quantum theory, light is particles. Light is released as "lumps" known as quanta I believe, and not one continuous stream. (That or photons, I always get confused). They're "particles" of light that have no mass, so they can travel at the speed of light. Physics is a ridiculous subject IMO. If it's a law, it applies to everything, no exceptions. Physics has laws that have exceptions, which means the law is wrong.
#7
Quote by fretsonfire74
According to quantum theory, light is particles. Light is released as "lumps" known as quanta I believe, and not one continuous stream. (That or photons, I always get confused). They're "particles" of light that have no mass, so they can travel at the speed of light. Physics is a ridiculous subject IMO. If it's a law, it applies to everything, no exceptions. Physics has laws that have exceptions, which means the law is wrong.


You fail
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#8
it has no rest mass since it is never at rest. Light is only effected by gravity, for example if it passes a large object, like a black hole. A black hole and other large objects can bend spacetime. Light usually travels in a straight line, but it is also bent with the bending of spacetime.
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#9
Quote by Eternal_One
You fail

I don't believe I do. If you're going to say I fail, at least correct me, spammer.
#10
Quote by fretsonfire74
I don't believe I do. If you're going to say I fail, at least correct me, spammer.


You are correct. Just thought I'd back you up.
It does have no mass.
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#11
You speak of this as if you have just come up with it....

Light can behave as either a wave or a particle, its creepy like that...
----
#12
Quote by Simsimius
You are correct. Just thought I'd back you up.
It does have no mass.

Thankyou. I think he's just an un-educated twat who thinks he knows something.
#13
Thanks guys this is all really great so far =D
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#14
Quote by fretsonfire74
Thankyou. I think he's just an un-educated twat who thinks he knows something.


lol
Probably jealous?
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#15
Quote by Simsimius
lol
Probably jealous?

I think he was intimidated/sore that he didn't follow more than anything.
#16
Quote by fretsonfire74
According to quantum theory, light is particles. Light is released as "lumps" known as quanta I believe, and not one continuous stream. (That or photons, I always get confused). They're "particles" of light that have no mass, so they can travel at the speed of light. Physics is a ridiculous subject IMO. If it's a law, it applies to everything, no exceptions. Physics has laws that have exceptions, which means the law is wrong.


You do in fact fail: 1) light acts as both particles and waves, 2) photons are quanta of electromagnetic radiation, 3) Physics is the shizzle.
#18
Quote by dr.hairynuts
hey, i was revisin 2day for ma physics exam and i thourght of a theory. I am shure it is wrong but I just want to know why. ok. Black holes pull everything with a mass into them and they can pull in light so if light did not have any mass at all how would it be pulled in (one idea of mine is its the stuff the light is on that is bieng pulled in but seeing as space is meant to be a vacuum how is that possible) the second point off this is that if light had even the tiniest mass possible due to the fact it travels at the speed of light it's mass would be infinate (based on Newton's law that says that anything travelling at the speed of light has a infinate mass. This is obviously not true because otherwise we would be instantly crushed by light. But why is it incorrect. I know a bit about "dark matter" is it because of this that the light appears to be pulled into the black hole? As far as i know that cant be true as dark matter does nothing to light as it is baisically nothing.

Anyway, any answers appreciated, I am very confused by this but shure there is an explanation maybe that is REALLY obvious.

Newtonian physics dont apply to light.

Edit: I googled for you:
http://www.templeofsolomon.org/Quantum_Thought.htg/thought.htm
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Last edited by The Undead at Jun 19, 2008,
#19
Be satisfied that light has no mass, but it has energy which can be affected by the gravitational pull of black hole
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#20
Quote by mynamewontfit
You do in fact fail: 1) light acts as both particles and waves, 2) photons are quanta of electromagnetic radiation, 3) Physics is the shizzle.

Acutally, yes I am still right. Only once you get down to the quantum level to waves appear to act like particles. And for "2)", I said I wasn't sure, meaning I could be wrong. Stop being a douche.
#21
Quote by fretsonfire74
Acutally, yes I am still right. Only once you get down to the quantum level to waves appear to act like particles. And for "2)", I said I wasn't sure, meaning I could be wrong. Stop being a douche.


Stop being overly-sensitive.
HI GUYS!
#22
Quote by richiemokkiez
Stop being overly-sensitive.

Stop trying to make me sound wrong by taking things I say and exploiting them. I'm going to ignore you now.
#24
Quote by fretsonfire74
Stop trying to make me sound wrong by taking things I say and exploiting them. I'm going to ignore you now.


Okay..
HI GUYS!
#25
Now now....


Looks like somebody started shooting their mouths off before even looking at wikipedia - the most basic of resources. Look up Wave particle duality. And this whole bullcrap about physics having exceptions - You telling me real life law doesn't have exceptions? The pronunciation rules for English, French and a whole bunch of other languages have dozens of exceptions - are you saying that the studies of these languages are also ridiculous subjects. True, Physics isn't perfect. but if physicists find something wrong, they don't just politely ignore the glaring error, they try and fix it. If YOU have a better suggestion, fine. but if you have nothing useful to add to the debate, then stop throwing ridiculous generalisations around.
Last edited by LordBishek at Jun 19, 2008,
#26
Quote by Grundy0
Learn general relativity.


Yea it's way more interesting than special relativity...couldn't hurt to learn that either
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#28
Quote by metacarpi
Light acts as both a wave and a particle.

Particles have mass.

There's a whole lot of complicated physics behind it, but I don't really understand it.



This man speaks the truth.

Scientists believe that light has particles as well as being a wave. But they can't find out because of the speed light travels at.

Also, this might not be true, but aah well: black holes have a riddiculous amount of gravity inside them, and it could affect the wave?? I duno..
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#29
@FOF74

The sheer fact that you just brushed aside the various laws of physics by saying it has exceptions and therefore unreliable, is in itself idiotic.

Even comparing the rodeo-ride that is law to the power of science and physics is hilarious.

I shall however, forgive you, seeing as you are still a boy and of course Australian.
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What's the big deal with Gibsons, anyway?
I've heard loads of Gibsons being played before
and they don't sound any more special than
any other guitar.

^UG's King Of Fail.
#30
I will try to say my explanation in lamen terms. It probably isn't 100% correct. This is learnt through reading and from my study of physics.

You may or may not know that gravity is just a bend in space curvature. The effect of mass on space-time fabric is to bend it towards the mass. Imagine space-tiime as a 3-D fabric. If a mass was so massive (like a black hole), then it would bend all the space-time 'fabric' such that all paths around this space leads to the black hole. There is no such path that leads away from the black hole for any object at all. So as light travels through space, it follows the curved space which always leads to the black hole. Gravity is a little more complex than we may think :P. It isn't just "mass pulling more mass".
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#31
Quote by fretsonfire74
Stop trying to make me sound wrong by taking things I say and exploiting them. I'm going to ignore you now.


That wasn't the best thing to say...
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#32
Quote by dr.hairynuts
hey, i was revisin 2day for ma physics exam and i thourght of a theory. I am shure it is wrong but I just want to know why. ok. Black holes pull everything with a mass into them and they can pull in light so if light did not have any mass at all how would it be pulled in (one idea of mine is its the stuff the light is on that is bieng pulled in but seeing as space is meant to be a vacuum how is that possible) the second point off this is that if light had even the tiniest mass possible due to the fact it travels at the speed of light it's mass would be infinate (based on Newton's law that says that anything travelling at the speed of light has a infinate mass. This is obviously not true because otherwise we would be instantly crushed by light. But why is it incorrect. I know a bit about "dark matter" is it because of this that the light appears to be pulled into the black hole? As far as i know that cant be true as dark matter does nothing to light as it is baisically nothing.

Anyway, any answers appreciated, I am very confused by this but shure there is an explanation maybe that is REALLY obvious.

1) Here's your problem. You insist on believing that only things with mass can be pulled into a black hole.

2) What the hell are you talking about.

In all honesty, reading your post was one of the most embarassing things I've seen today. Take 4 years of physics with calculus, then bring up a topic that is relevant and has substance to it.
#33
ok. I am 15 and stated very clearly from the start of what I said that i knew 100% that i wasn't correct so Muzikh i appologize if you were 'embarrased' but to be honest your reply was rather pathetic too. All you did was make yourself look like a stuck up prick and failed to even properly answer the question properly.
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#35
Quote by Oblivion_Rps
Scientists believe that light has particles as well as being a wave. But they can't find out because of the speed light travels at.


Yes they can, wave-particle duality is one of the only things in physics that is set in stone. There's hundreds of empirical evidence of it.
#36
Quote by Muzikh
1) Here's your problem. You insist on believing that only things with mass can be pulled into a black hole.

2) What the hell are you talking about.

In all honesty, reading your post was one of the most embarassing things I've seen today. Take 4 years of physics with calculus, then bring up a topic that is relevant and has substance to it.


What's your problem you thick fuck?

It embarasses you that someone takes an interest in physics and spends time to construct a theory and argument?

You're a dick.

And I see you're 18, which means that you're just finishing your A-Levels or equivalent. I thought you had a Phd by the way you talk. You're just some high school scrub.
Last edited by ClaptonWannabe at Mar 14, 2009,
#37
Quote by ClaptonWannabe
Yes they can, wave-particle duality is one of the only things in physics that is set in stone. There's hundreds of empirical evidence of it.


Yeah sorry. I did my research and you're right.
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#38
All these points are ok but i think we're not really helping out our hairynutted friend here.
It's spelled SURE you moron. -_-'
#39
People, people, please!

This thread has been necro-bumped! By this of all posts:

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...sound a bit homo


Forget about this thread and go home, have a nice cup of tea and set aside all your differences with a nice game of Risk: Adult's Only Edition.
#40
Quote by NovaLau
I will try to say my explanation in lamen terms. It probably isn't 100% correct. This is learnt through reading and from my study of physics.

You may or may not know that gravity is just a bend in space curvature. The effect of mass on space-time fabric is to bend it towards the mass. Imagine space-tiime as a 3-D fabric. If a mass was so massive (like a black hole), then it would bend all the space-time 'fabric' such that all paths around this space leads to the black hole. There is no such path that leads away from the black hole for any object at all. So as light travels through space, it follows the curved space which always leads to the black hole. Gravity is a little more complex than we may think :P. It isn't just "mass pulling more mass".


^This

and

e=mc²

/thread