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#1
Esus2 would be:

1 - 2 - 5
E - F# - B

It should make 'harmonic doubt' because it's neither major nor minor.
But I was wondering what actually the theory behind it is, thanks already.
#2
The theory is it has no 3rd. If the 3rd was flat, it'd be a min9(No7). If the 3rd was major, it'd be a maj9(No7).
#3
Quote by 08L1V10N
Esus2 would be:

1 - 2 - 5
E - F# - B

It should make 'harmonic doubt' because it's neither major nor minor.
But I was wondering what actually the theory behind it is, thanks already.


it's a standard Major or minor triad but with the 2nd replacing the 3rd.



A Major triad = A C# E
A minor triad = A C E
A sus2 = A B E


thats it: replace the 3rd with a 2. Like you said its not major or minor.
shred is gaudy music
#4
It's meant to resolve to the major triad. It's suspension (tension), and release. The music will sound incomplete until you resolve with a major chord.
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#5
typically with suspended chords, the suspension is a half note away from the chord's original third.
a sus4 is most often associated with a major chord because the third is a half step down from the 4th. and a sus2 is associated with a minor chord because the third is a half step up. but that does not mean you cant interchange them, im just saying when you are dealing with these suspensions, those are the typical resolutions
Quote by :-D
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#7
Quote by one vision
I thought sus2's resolved to minor, and sus4's to major? That just makes sense to me, I don't have an instrument handy..


EDIT: Beat me to it ^



They could go either way.

Quote by mattrsg1
typically with suspended chords, the suspension is a half note away from the chord's original third.
a sus4 is most often associated with a major chord because the third is a half step down from the 4th. and a sus2 is associated with a minor chord because the third is a half step up. but that does not mean you cant interchange them, im just saying when you are dealing with these suspensions, those are the typical resolutions



right if your talking about "classical" music from the common practice era. In general though you could have a sus2 that is associated with a Major and a sus 4 associated with minor. You won't see it in Bach's music, but you will likely encounter in modern "pop" music.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 20, 2008,
#8
yeah they could go either way but sus4-maj and sus2-minor are the most common resolutions because of the half step pull (the strongest in music)
Quote by :-D
I go to college with mattrsg1; for what it's worth he is the best guitarist I have heard in person, and in particular stands out from others in my age group. You will not be disappointed, honestly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJpCZpysf94
#9
Quote by mattrsg1
yeah they could go either way but sus4-maj and sus2-minor are the most common resolutions because of the half step pull (the strongest in music)


right for "classical" music thats true

The main reason I'm making a point of this is because I would hate for someone to think " I can't play a sus 4 here cause im playing a minor chord and I read thats like bad n stuff".
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 20, 2008,
#10
ok i see what you are saying after the edit, yeah i completely agree that both subs can be used for minor and major. i originally thought you were saying that contemporary music does not resolve them they way i explained
Quote by :-D
I go to college with mattrsg1; for what it's worth he is the best guitarist I have heard in person, and in particular stands out from others in my age group. You will not be disappointed, honestly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJpCZpysf94
#11
@ Munky. Nah, I know that music could go "either way" lol. Music is subjective and theory is just theory.
But a typical and more common way to go about using sus chords would be sus2-minor sus4-major, correct? In case I ever have to explain it to anyone...
#12
Quote by one vision
@ Munky. Nah, I know that music could go "either way" lol. Music is subjective and theory is just theory.
But a typical and more common way to go about using sus chords would be sus2-minor sus4-major, correct? In case I ever have to explain it to anyone...



its more common in "classical" music, but not necessarily in modern pop music.
shred is gaudy music
#13
I thought I'd put in two additions to the topic. Don't know how relevant they are, and some of you probably already know what I'm going to add.

1. A sus2 chord has the same notes as the sus4 chord with a root that is a fifth higher, i.e. Dsus2 = Asus4, Asus2=Esus4 etc.

2. It sounds really nice to put a third on top of a sus chord.
#15
Quote by Metallist65
The theory is it has no 3rd. If the 3rd was flat, it'd be a min9(No7). If the 3rd was major, it'd be a maj9(No7).


Just as a note, typically chords with the 9 and third but no7 are written (at least for guitar) as add9, so _minadd9 as opposed to being written as a 9 chord with an omitted 7.
#16
Quote by :-D
^Regarding point number one, I've met people who refuse to believe that sus4 chords exist, saying that they're just altered sus2 chords.


Don't you mean inversions instead of altered?
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#17
Quote by bluesrocker101
Don't you mean inversions instead of altered?

Technically they're inversions (for example, Esus4 would be a second inversion of Asus2), but people have told me that they view them as altered sus2 chords. You're correct in saying that they're not altered chords in the typical sense, though.
#18
Quote by :-D
Technically they're inversions (for example, Esus4 would be a second inversion of Asus2), but people have told me that they view them as altered sus2 chords. You're correct in saying that they're not altered chords in the typical sense, though.


Ah. I see now.

Sus chords would have to be one of my favorite types out there. That, or augmented chords.
DANNY

Quote by kevinm4435 to some guy
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#19
Quote by bluesrocker101
Ah. I see now.

Sus chords would have to be one of my favorite types out there. That, or augmented chords.

I am particularly partial to sweeping through sus chords, it sounds beautiful. That or m7 arpeggios.
#20
Quote by :-D
I am particularly partial to sweeping through sus chords, it sounds beautiful. That or m7 arpeggios.


Definitely. They sound enchanting, or dreamy.
DANNY

Quote by kevinm4435 to some guy
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#21
Quote by bluesrocker101
Definitely. They sound enchanting, or dreamy.

Yes, and the resolutions work nicely; it's cool to sweep up the suspended arpeggio and then play the resolved arpeggio on the way back down.
#22
Quote by :-D
Yes, and the resolutions work nicely; it's cool to sweep up the suspended arpeggio and then play the resolved arpeggio on the way back down.
Doing that has never occurred to me, but it sounds like a fantastic idea.

Anyway, yeah, they're great for creating tension without dissonance.
#23
Quote by :-D
^Regarding point number one, I've met people who refuse to believe that sus4 chords exist, saying that they're just altered sus2 chords.


thats kind of odd, what would be their view of 7sus4 chords?
#24
Quote by Stash Jam
thats kind of odd, what would be their view 7sus4 chords?

Good point, I didn't ask; you'd think they'd accept sus4 as valid considering "sus" without any specification implies a 7sus4. I'll see if I can find out.
#25
Quote by Galvanise69
I had no idea about the simple straight sus.

I had a Vai tab book out, and I was seeing a lot of just single "sus" Bsus, and not knowing what was implied, thanks for clearing that up.

Is the 7 generally a major or minor 7th?

Im assuming its a minor 7th, to avoid tri-tone dissonance with 4th, and major 7th.

A minor seventh; the chord you play when you see just a "sus" should be built up 1 4 5 b7.
#26
Quote by :-D
A minor seventh; the chord you play when you see just a "sus" should be built up 1 4 5 b7.


Keep in mind that sus doesn't necessarily imply a 7th. Some books present it that way (you probably have the Levine book right?), but others do not. I have lessons from school that clearly name a SUS chord as 1 4 5 and no 7th.

Nomenclature often varies.

Quote by Galvanise69
I had no idea about the simple straight sus.

I had a Vai tab book out, and I was seeing a lot of just single "sus" Bsus, and not knowing what was implied, thanks for clearing that up.

Is the 7 generally a major or minor 7th?

Im assuming its a minor 7th, to avoid tri-tone dissonance with 4th, and major 7th.


It's possible that its not implying a 7th. Take a look at the notes in the chord to find out for sure. SUS often just refers to the triad with 4 replacing the 3rd, and does not always imply a 7th.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 21, 2008,
#27
Quote by GuitarMunky
Keep in mind that sus doesn't necessarily imply a 7th. Some books present it that way (you probably have the Levine book right?), but others do not. I have lessons from school that clearly name a SUS chord as 1 4 5 and no 7th.

Nomenclature often varies.

I'm not working out of a particular book -- in anything I've done with jazz, it's been understood that a "sus" will always mean a 7sus4.
#28
Quote by :-D
I'm not working out of a particular book -- in anything I've done with jazz, it's been understood that a "sus" will always mean a 7sus4.



It doesnt always imply a 7th. It does in some books, but not in others.
shred is gaudy music
#29
Quote by GuitarMunky
It doesnt always imply a 7th. It does in some books, but not in others.

I'm only using the word "always" in reference to my personal experiences, not for all musicians and all music.
#30
Quote by :-D
I'm only using the word "always" in reference to my personal experiences, not for all musicians and all music.


I know, but when you give advice like that readers with less experience will just assume that its "always" the case . ( see Galvanise post above ). Now his Steve Vai example may very well include a b7th, but I dont think its a good idea to assume it.

Anyway Im not trying to argue, its just that you presented it as an absolute, and my personal experiences have shown me that its not.

Like that 2 vs add9 chord thing..... nomenclature varies. Its not so much a "right and wrong" issue, but more a matter of being aware of it.
shred is gaudy music
#32
^In jazz, I've barely seen a sus chord without a seventh. In folk, I've barely seen a seventh in a sus chord.
Quote by Stash Jam
thats kind of odd, what would be their view of 7sus4 chords?
They'd call it the minor seventh chord with a root of the fifth of the sus chord with a bass of the root of the sus chord. So if it was G7sus4, theyd call it a Dm7add11/G. Get it?

Personally I believe in Sus chords. I dont really like them, cause I dont know whether to play melodicall major or minor over them, but I still believe in them.
#33
Quote by :-D
^How have you usually seen it? I'd like to know if the seventh is implied more often than not or the other way around.


I've seen it both ways. I don't know the exact statistics, but generally you should be aware that it could be either.
shred is gaudy music
#34
Quote by Galvanise69
Fair enough.

Ill keep in mind that it can always be both ways.

Just a simple sus4 (1 4 5) when "sus" is shown, or a 7sus4 (1 4 5 b7).

Will just reading "sus" ever present the option of sus2?

It's very well possible that somebody refers to it like that; in my experience I've never seen that, however. It's always referring to a chord with a fourth as opposed to a second; in general, interpret it as such.

Like I said, though, there has to be an exception to this rule somewhere.
#35
Quote by Galvanise69
Thankyou for clearing that up.

So as it is now, the straight "sus" does not present the option of sus2.

The only things it could mean are: sus4 (1 4 5) or a 7sus4 (1 4 5 b7)?

Yes, exactly; I have never seen it referring to a sus2.
#36
Ive seen sus2 written as add9 in a lot of books, does anyone know the reason of this?
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#37
add9 and sus2 are completely seperate chords.

sus 2 changes the 3rd to a 2nd, making a 1 2 5 chord.

add 9 adds a 2nd without changing the 3rd, making a 1 3 5 9
Last edited by colohue at Jun 22, 2008,
#38
Quote by colohue
add9 and sus2 are completely seperate chords.

sus 2 changes the 3rd to a 2nd, making a 1 2 5 chord.

add 9 adds a 2nd without changing the 3rd, making a 1 2 5 9

I already know they are different and that is why Im confused as to why I have seen it notated as add9 in a lot of books.
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#39
In the book, did the chord shown not have a third? If it didn't then I would be confused as well.
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