#1
Hi ...

I've recently started improvising on scales, I have a couple of doubts though when it comes to what scales you can play when you are in a key ....

For example : Lets say the chord progression is C Am G ,

Since that is in the key of C , doesn't that mean I can play
a mix of any of these scales ?

C major
F major
G major
A minor
D minor
E minor

By mix I mean ...play a parts of a scale and then jump to another one ...
lets say play a little of C major and jump to Am then jump to F major etc...
#2
I think whatever chord, thats the scale, so like, Am chord, use Am scale, if it switches to G, G scale, but only use 1 type of scale (like Pentatonic, blues, whatever...)
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#3
its all about what sounds right to you. there is no list of scales to use, some of those scales will work over some of the chords in the progression, but some wont. arpeggios of those chords and other chords, modes, harmonic and melodic minor scales can all work depending on how you use them.
#4
Quote by inlovewithmusic
Hi ...

I've recently started improvising on scales, I have a couple of doubts though when it comes to what scales you can play when you are in a key ....

For example : Lets say the chord progression is C Am G ,

Since that is in the key of C , doesn't that mean I can play
a mix of any of these scales ?

C major
F major
G major
A minor
D minor
E minor

By mix I mean ...play a parts of a scale and then jump to another one ...
lets say play a little of C major and jump to Am then jump to F major etc...


Not really - your tonal centre is C so you'r better off playing in C major all the way through for a coherent sound. Trying to change scale for each chord would sound awkward and disjointed.
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#5
Quote by inlovewithmusic
Hi ...

I've recently started improvising on scales, I have a couple of doubts though when it comes to what scales you can play when you are in a key ....

For example : Lets say the chord progression is C Am G ,

Since that is in the key of C , doesn't that mean I can play
a mix of any of these scales ?

C major
F major
G major
A minor
D minor
E minor

By mix I mean ...play a parts of a scale and then jump to another one ...
lets say play a little of C major and jump to Am then jump to F major etc...
If your starting to improvise I would suggest sticking to pentatonics and play simple pentatonics (probably C major pentatonics/Aminor pentatonics) for the whole of that progressions. Heres a repost of mine thats somewhat relevant:
_________________________________________
I think you should take it back a step. If I said you were playing major/minor scales (instead of pentatonics) would I be right? Well take a step back and start playing the simple pentatonic scales.

Once you've learnt a few shapes (2 or 3 is fine) of the pentatonic scale, you probably should try to focus on what you feel is the right next note and play REALLY slow. Try to listen to some of those slow expressive blues solo's to get what I mean. Whilst doing this, try to become proficient at moving around the fretboard and between shapes. Aim to be able to slide between 3 or 4 notes on the same string.
Copying a singers phrasing and rhthym is generally a good idea to when learning how to improvise. And I dont mean metal singers/screamers, who sing really fast. Copy something slow. This is how people started writing those slow blues solo's.


Doing this will get your phrasing (by copying those singers) and your technique (by moving between shapes) ready for doing some real solo's (as in, stuff that sounds good).


Than after you've got all that down and when you're good enough to say that you personally enjoy what you're playing (it took me a couple of years to enjoy my pentatonic wankery), you'll be ready to move on. Than study the major scale, the intervals behind it, the way these intervals create harmonic/melodic consonance and dissonance and watch melodic control by marty friedman. Pretty much look for and study as much theory as you can eat. And analyse solo's, ask yourself, why do they sound good?
At this stage you should start realising that the same note can sound better or worse over different chords and some notes sound better or worse when followed (or preceeded) by some notes. Exploiting this will enable you to control what you're solo's are going to feel like, instead of blindly looking for the right note.
#6
I think what T/S means is: the progression is in C major but the scales you could use are:

C ionian
D dorian
E phrygian
F lydian
G mixolydian
A Aeolian
B locrian


like play the C ionian over the C chord and then somehow joining it to A aeolian then to G mixolydian and so on.

Plz correct me if im wrong
#7
Quote by MAMADERA2000
I think what T/S means is: the progression is in C major but the scales you could use are:

C ionian
D dorian
E phrygian
F lydian
G mixolydian
A Aeolian
B locrian


like play the C ionian over the C chord and then somehow joining it to A aeolian then to G mixolydian and so on.

Plz correct me if im wrong
As he/she/trap just started to improvise, I didnt think that was the best way for the T/S to improvise. That way requires a somewhat formed knowledge of theory and requires alot of technical skill.
#8
Quote by MAMADERA2000
I think what T/S means is: the progression is in C major but the scales you could use are:

C ionian
D dorian
E phrygian
F lydian
G mixolydian
A Aeolian
B locrian


like play the C ionian over the C chord and then somehow joining it to A aeolian then to G mixolydian and so on.

Plz correct me if im wrong

If you're playing over a C major progression then all those scales will just be C major.
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#9
Quote by steven seagull
If you're playing over a C major progression then all those scales will just be C major.
Yup.

If you play the notes C D E F G A B over a C major progression, in any order, anywhere on the neck, the scale is C major and not one of the relative modes (E Phrygian, F Lydian, etc).
#10
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Yup.

If you play the notes C D E F G A B over a C major progression, in any order, anywhere on the neck, the scale is C major and not one of the relative modes (E Phrygian, F Lydian, etc).
But if you consider playing say aeolian over Em 'aeolian' and Ionian over FM 'ionian,' why cant you consider that using the same seven notes for the whole progression isnt playing modes too? Sure its simpler to think of it as the same scale, but technically wouldnt it be playing different modes over each different chord?
#11
Quote by demonofthenight
But if you consider playing say aeolian over Em 'aeolian' and Ionian over FM 'ionian,' why cant you consider that using the same seven notes for the whole progression isnt playing modes too? Sure its simpler to think of it as the same scale, but technically wouldnt it be playing different modes over each different chord?



Na, its just C Major. its all about tonal center. If you established a different chord, say F major, as the tonal center but kept the same key signature, then your dealing with a mode, but as written in the 1st post its just straight up C Major.
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#12
I'd say it depends on whether you look at the piece as a whole or in segments. If you look as a whole, it becomes a Cmaj progression and you'd be playing in C major. But if you broke it up and looked at each chord and what's over it individually, that chord would help establish a tonal center in which case you'd be looking at that chord, right?
#13
Quote by demonofthenight
But if you consider playing say aeolian over Em 'aeolian' and Ionian over FM 'ionian,' why cant you consider that using the same seven notes for the whole progression isnt playing modes too? Sure its simpler to think of it as the same scale, but technically wouldnt it be playing different modes over each different chord?
F and Em aren't relative majors and minors of each other, so I have no idea what you mean.
#14
^I just picked a random minor mode and a random major mode.
Quote by TheShred201
I'd say it depends on whether you look at the piece as a whole or in segments. If you look as a whole, it becomes a Cmaj progression and you'd be playing in C major. But if you broke it up and looked at each chord and what's over it individually, that chord would help establish a tonal center in which case you'd be looking at that chord, right?
Thats how I see it.
Last edited by demonofthenight at Jun 21, 2008,
#15
Quote by TheShred201
I'd say it depends on whether you look at the piece as a whole or in segments. If you look as a whole, it becomes a Cmaj progression and you'd be playing in C major. But if you broke it up and looked at each chord and what's over it individually, that chord would help establish a tonal center in which case you'd be looking at that chord, right?



You could take any one of those chords as a vamp and see it as modal, but thats taking it out of context and creating a new one.

Always look at the big picture.... the context.
shred is gaudy music
#16
Quote by GuitarMunky
You could take any one of those chords as a vamp and see it as modal, but thats taking it out of context and creating a new one.

Always look at the big picture.... the context.
Personally I think in context in relation to the key only when writing chord progressions. Than I think in context in relation to the chord when writing melodies/improvising. IDK, this is where I end up spending 2 hour arguments with people.
#17
Quote by demonofthenight
Personally I think in context in relation to the key only when writing chord progressions. Than I think in context in relation to the chord when writing melodies/improvising. IDK, this is where I end up spending 2 hour arguments with people.


well you can see it how you want I would suggest though that when your writing melodies & improvising that the entire context is relevant.
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#18
Quote by GuitarMunky
well you can see it how you want I would suggest though that when your writing melodies & improvising that the entire context is relevant.

+1 to this and everything else you have said in this thread.
#19
Quote by GuitarMunky
well you can see it how you want I would suggest though that when your writing melodies & improvising that the entire context is relevant.
But obviously each note will sound different over each different chord. But by looking at the context from the key of the whole song it would suggest that a note will sound the same regardless when in the song its being played.

Wouldnt looking at context from each individual chord explain more, regardless of its complexity? Like how the same note will sound different over each different chord.
#20
Quote by demonofthenight
But obviously each note will sound different over each different chord. But by looking at the context from the key of the whole song it would suggest that a note will sound the same regardless when in the song its being played.

Wouldnt looking at context from each individual chord explain more, regardless of its complexity? Like how the same note will sound different over each different chord.

There's no need to go into that level of detail though - however it does depend on what you're aiming for.

If you want to create an interesting solo as part of a song then you'd look at the song as a whole and take your cue from there with regards to tonal centre and scale choice. You'll get something that sounds nice and is also theoretically "correct".

If you're looking to flex your musical muscles and want to track chords individually then you can do that. It'll possibly sound a bit more awkward and disjointed, particularly if you don't do it well, but it's no more or less "correct" in musical term...however it is far more challenging.
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Last edited by steven seagull at Jun 21, 2008,
#21
Quote by steven seagull
There's no need to go into that level of detail though - however it does depend on what you're aiming for.
There is if your skilled enough (which I admit I'm not, although I can play over slow progressions this way) and if you want more control over your improv.

Quote by steven seagull
It'll possibly sound a bit more awkward and disjointed, particularly if you don't do it well
Not if your skilled (which once again, I'm not)
#22
Quote by demonofthenight
But obviously each note will sound different over each different chord. But by looking at the context from the key of the whole song it would suggest that a note will sound the same regardless when in the song its being played.

Wouldnt looking at context from each individual chord explain more, regardless of its complexity? Like how the same note will sound different over each different chord.



Well ofcourse you should understand each notes relationship to the chord that supports it, but that has nothing to do with modes.

If your in C major, but your on the V chord, your melody is going to relate to that chord, but your still in C major.

Quote by demonofthenight
There is if your skilled enough (which I admit I'm not, although I can play over slow progressions this way) and if you want more control over your improv.

Not if your skilled (which once again, I'm not)


its not about skill, its about understanding context.
shred is gaudy music
#23
Quote by demonofthenight
There is if your skilled enough (which I admit I'm not, although I can play over slow progressions this way) and if you want more control over your improv.

...

Not if your skilled (which once again, I'm not)


Which is exactly what I said
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