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#1
Hey guys. I was just messin around with my guitar and came across this very exotic sounding, very "dreamy" scale...I was just wondering if you guys could help me find out which one it is? It reminds me alot of Satch's stuff...

E||-------------------------------11-12-14-||
B||-----------------------9-10-12----------||
G||----------------8-9-11------------------||
D||----------6-7-9-------------------------||
A||----6-7-9-------------------------------||
E||--7-------------------------------------||
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#2
Quote by NovemberRain273
Hey guys. I was just messin around with my guitar and came across this very exotic sounding, very "dreamy" scale...I was just wondering if you guys could help me find out which one it is? It reminds me alot of Satch's stuff...

E||-------------------------------11-12-14-||
B||-----------------------9-10-12----------||
G||----------------8-9-11------------------||
D||----------6-7-9-------------------------||
A||----6-7-9-------------------------------||
E||--7-------------------------------------||
Thats the major scale.

EDIT: the E major scale... sorry
Last edited by demonofthenight at Jun 21, 2008,
#3
E major but starting on B so
B mixolydian?
Last edited by Base Ics at Jun 21, 2008,
#4
But it's not really the major scale because I skip some of the notes...I mean the whole time I thought it might be some other scale with some of the notes skipped, but I also thought it might have some other name.

EDIT:

For instance another way I might use it is like this:


E||-------|-------------------------7-11-||
B||-------|--------------------7-10------||
G||-------|----------------8-9-----------||
D||-------|----------6-7-9---------------||
A||-------|------6-7---------------------||
E||-------|--5-7-------------------------||
Alta Vera - My real life alternative rock band.
Ashen Spire - My personal metal band.

Super Mario, F-Zero & Dragonball Z covers!

PSN: whatev27

Let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear?

Last edited by NovemberRain273 at Jun 21, 2008,
#6
Quote by NovemberRain273
But it's not really the major scale because I skip some of the notes...I mean the whole time I thought it might be some other scale with some of the notes skipped, but I also thought it might have some other name.

you didn't skip 'some of the notes'
you only skipped C#
And no, taking something that exists and leaving 1 part out doesn't make it flashy and new. A strat with only 20 frets is still a strat...
#8
mixolydian is a nice dreamy mode. but i think that lydian is way more "out there" its dreamy but mysterious at the same time.
#9
Quote by Base Ics
you didn't skip 'some of the notes'
you only skipped C#
And no, taking something that exists and leaving 1 part out doesn't make it flashy and new. A strat with only 20 frets is still a strat...


Actually leaving out some of the notes (see the tab I posted later) makes it sound a lot more interesting...it may be the same scale but it definitely isn't the same sound.
Alta Vera - My real life alternative rock band.
Ashen Spire - My personal metal band.

Super Mario, F-Zero & Dragonball Z covers!

PSN: whatev27

Let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear?

#10
to guitarfreak and november rain:
Not playing every single note in a scale in a song doesn't mean you're not playing that scale. Not playing everything that is 'allowed' is a very basic and easy thing that many metal guitarists tend to forget. (no offence but it's just true. I did say 'many')
Music isn't only about decadent shredding, sometimes thinking about what you play also gets result.
#11
Quote by NovemberRain273
Actually leaving out some of the notes (see the tab I posted later) makes it sound a lot more interesting...it may be the same scale but it definitely isn't the same sound.

playing in 4/4 or in 9/8 can be in the same scale and won't be the same sound either m8. You're underestimating scales.
I'm not saying what you did is bad, I'm saying it's not innovative (which you came to check here).
#12
Listen dude, I totally get what you're saying, and like I said before it probably is the same scale. I was just wondering IF there happened to be a name for when you play that scale in that way. Now I have my answer, which is no. So thanks for that.

And who said I was using this to play metal?
Alta Vera - My real life alternative rock band.
Ashen Spire - My personal metal band.

Super Mario, F-Zero & Dragonball Z covers!

PSN: whatev27

Let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear?

#13
Quote by Base Ics
to guitarfreak and november rain:
Not playing every single note in a scale in a song doesn't mean you're not playing that scale. Not playing everything that is 'allowed' is a very basic and easy thing that many metal guitarists tend to forget. (no offence but it's just true. I did say 'many')
Music isn't only about decadent shredding, sometimes thinking about what you play also gets result.


i never said that it was a different scale, i said it was mixolydian without the 2nd. so why im beeing mentioned confuses me.
#14
Quote by Base Ics
to guitarfreak and november rain:
Not playing every single note in a scale in a song doesn't mean you're not playing that scale. Not playing everything that is 'allowed' is a very basic and easy thing that many metal guitarists tend to forget. (no offence but it's just true. I did say 'many')
Music isn't only about decadent shredding, sometimes thinking about what you play also gets result.


That was a rather unnecessary comment about metal. Came totally out of left field.
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#15
For it to be B mixolydian some sort of harmonic device (chords, arpeggios, riffs, bass lines so on) should be played underneath and be based around B major. Otherwise, its E major.

Quote by GuitarFreak1387
mixolydian is a nice dreamy mode. but i think that lydian is way more "out there" its dreamy but mysterious at the same time.
As long as you realise for their needs to be some sort of harmonic device for modes to be implied. Or your progression needs to be based around those modes.

Quote by Base Ics
to guitarfreak and november rain:
Not playing every single note in a scale in a song doesn't mean you're not playing that scale. Not playing everything that is 'allowed' is a very basic and easy thing that many metal guitarists tend to forget. (no offence but it's just true. I did say 'many')
Music isn't only about decadent shredding, sometimes thinking about what you play also gets result.
Please dont describe all shred as mindless fagotry. Your just as likely to see an uncreative improviser in metal as you are in jazz or funk or blues or anything.
#16
Music isn't only about decadent shredding, sometimes thinking about what you play also gets result.

Every time somebody says something like that on this forum, I want to beat a puppy. Severely.

Know why? Because there are probably more people like you who say things like "Don't be a mindless shredder" than there are actual mindless shredders (what the hell does that mean anyways).

sometimes thinking about what you play also gets result.

What, and you don't think guys like Malmsteen and Vai just put there hands on the guitar and play, and happen to play good notes? What they are playing takes years of perfect practise. To do this, you must be highly aware and have high levels of concentration.

So how exactly does this mean that they don't think about what they are playing?

(Btw, speed isn't always essential, but it can be damn good in a lot of cases.).


On topic, a lovely dreamy scale is the whole tone. If you don't want to think hard about this, just play a note, skip a fret play the next one. Repeat right down the fretboard for an idea of what you can do with it.
Call me Batman.
Last edited by J.A.M at Jun 21, 2008,
#17
Just completely major that's all, nothing special Satch is a happy person so sure he'll use it.

Quote by GuitarFreak1387
mixolydian is a nice dreamy mode. but i think that lydian is way more "out there" its dreamy but mysterious at the same time.


I can make you pretty dreamy stuff witha full major scale actually, a bit like this.
4x 4x 4x
------- ----0---------------0-------- ----0--------------0------- ------0-----------0--------
------- -------0---------------0----- -------0--------------0---- ---------0-----------0-----
------- ----------11-------------11- ----------8--------------8- ------------6-----------6---
------- ---------------9-------------- -------------6------------- ----------------4------------
------- 7----------------------------- 4-------------------------- 2--------------------------
-0~~- ------------------------------ ---------------------------- ------------------------------

hint, play fast.
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Last edited by FretboardToAsh at Jun 21, 2008,
#18
Quote by NovemberRain273

For instance another way I might use it is like this:


E||-------|-------------------------7-11-||
B||-------|--------------------7-10------||
G||-------|----------------8-9-----------||
D||-------|----------6-7-9---------------||
A||-------|------6-7---------------------||
E||-------|--5-7-------------------------||

Am I the only one who's noticed that this particular lick is based more around A lydian, hence the dreamy sound?
#19
Quote by bananaboy
Am I the only one who's noticed that this particular lick is based more around A lydian, hence the dreamy sound?

No harmony, it can't be Lydian.
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#21
Quote by :-D
It could be the A Lydian scale, though I didn't look at it TBH.
It cant be without chords or an implied harmony.
#22
Quote by demonofthenight
It cant be without chords or an implied harmony.

Yes, it can be. Modal scales exist.

A Lydian is based off of the E major scale, so:
E major scale: E F# G# A B C# D#
If I played A B C# D# E F# G# without any backing, I've played the A Lydian scale. There's no backing to suggest Lydian, but there's no backing to suggest it's NOT Lydian. I have played a Lydian scale, that's it.
#23
That's a good point. However, I would still say it's E major, because I could call it any of the other modes of E major and be right in that case.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I reckon calling it an E Major scale would be more useful in a modern setting.
Call me Batman.
#24
Quote by J.A.M
That's a good point. However, I would still say it's E major, because I could call it any of the other modes of E major and be right in that case.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I reckon calling it an E Major scale would be more useful in a modern setting.

Absolutely; E major would make the most sense, I'm just saying that it can be viewed as a modal scale. There are various viewpoints and some people will tell you that modal scales don't exist; I'm not one of them.

Although to call it any of the other modal scales, you'd have to begin on the corresponding root.
#26
Quote by TheShred201
Well, if you played A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A with no backing, would the starting and finishing on A be enough to consider it a tonal center suggesting A lydian as opposed to E Major?
Could the fact that the A is repeated twice mean that theres an implied harmony?
#27
Quote by :-D
Yes, it can be. Modal scales exist.

A Lydian is based off of the E major scale, so:
E major scale: E F# G# A B C# D#
If I played A B C# D# E F# G# without any backing, I've played the A Lydian scale. There's no backing to suggest Lydian, but there's no backing to suggest it's NOT Lydian. I have played a Lydian scale, that's it.


It's only A lydian if your tonal center is A. Without any harmonic context (or implied harmony), the notes are almost certain going to resolve to E.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#28
Quote by Archeo Avis
It's only A lydian if your tonal center is A. Without any harmonic context (or implied harmony), the notes are almost certain going to resolve to E.

Yes -- that's why I say in my next post that "E major would make the most sense", as more than likely that's what's going on.
#29
dreamy to me= wholetone scale. Learn it, love it.
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#31
I might have a comeback for you guys!

(probably not but whatever, this is fun )

The minor pentatonic scale is the same as the minor scale (aeolian mode) but with some of the notes skipped

There is probably some huge gap in my reasoning, so that's why I need you guys to fill it

Also, I once heard this scale is called the japanese pentatonic scale or something? Anyways, it's very similar to that "dreamy scale" this thread was about in the first place:


E||--------------------------------12-16-||
B||--------------------------12-16-------||
G||--------------------13-14-------------||
D||--------------13-14-------------------||
A||--------12-16-------------------------||
E||--12-16-------------------------------||


Although, that doesn't make sense since it actually contains 6 notes, making it sort of a sextonic scale. Although, I found that changing the C# to a B gives it a slightly happier tone, owing to the fact that it resembles the major scale more (and thus going back to the initial argument and how it turns out it actually was just the major scale). However, changing the C# to a B instead gives a similar effect but to a lesser extent, and I feel it loses it's dreamy quality, which to me is actually the combination of the B, D#, E and G#.
Alta Vera - My real life alternative rock band.
Ashen Spire - My personal metal band.

Super Mario, F-Zero & Dragonball Z covers!

PSN: whatev27

Let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear?

#32
^the pentatonics are also the same as the phrygian and dorian modes with the same notes removed (second and sixth).

Also, that scale you mentioned is the same as the E major scale, except first time round it doesnt have a perfect fifth.
#33
a descending Major 7th Arpeggio sounds dreamy

if your talking about model pretty much Lydian and Mixolydian
i dunno about Phrygian since that kinda has that Dark Exoticness to it depending on how you play it

you can try Revers Polarities

this is all going to depend on your phrasing to MAKE it sound deamy
#34
Quote by :-D
Yes, it can be. Modal scales exist.

A Lydian is based off of the E major scale, so:
E major scale: E F# G# A B C# D#
If I played A B C# D# E F# G# without any backing, I've played the A Lydian scale. There's no backing to suggest Lydian, but there's no backing to suggest it's NOT Lydian. I have played a Lydian scale, that's it.
Could you explain how the A Lydian 'scale' is different to the A Lydian mode and the E major scale?

Quote by demon
Could the fact that the A is repeated twice mean that theres an implied harmony?
Pretty much. I would say that E major played from A to A without anything else is A lydian.
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#35
Quote by demonofthenight
^the pentatonics are also the same as the phrygian and dorian modes with the same notes removed (second and sixth).

Also, that scale you mentioned is the same as the E major scale, except first time round it doesnt have a perfect fifth.


Yea i know, I took the aeolian adaptation since it seems to be the most commonly used.

But what I wanna know is, what makes that scale I posted any different from other pentatonic scales? I mean, if I replaced the B with a C# or the C# with a B, it would be pentatonic as well, but a completely different sound. So why can't it be considred a seperate scale just like the minor pentatonic scales are?
Alta Vera - My real life alternative rock band.
Ashen Spire - My personal metal band.

Super Mario, F-Zero & Dragonball Z covers!

PSN: whatev27

Let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear?

#36
e major hexatonic (minus the 6th), that's what the scale looks like to me. if you play it startin on any of the other notes you're playing a mode of that scale as long as the backing harmony establishes the tonal centre (see other discussions if you don't get it).

furthermore, i think it is a different scale to e major or b mixolydian or A lydian, and so on and so forth. you wouldn't say that E major pentatonic was the same as the major scale. it doesn't sound the same. (i know it's just the major scale with notes taken out). when you remove notes from the scale you change the intervals between the notes; for the most part the scale will sound the same as the E major scale, but between the B and D# you have a new interval that isn't stressed in the E major scale normally.
#37
Satch's favourite mode he stated is Mixolydian

so it's possible that its B Mixolydian
#38
Quote by NovemberRain273
Yea i know, I took the aeolian adaptation since it seems to be the most commonly used.

But what I wanna know is, what makes that scale I posted any different from other pentatonic scales? I mean, if I replaced the B with a C# or the C# with a B, it would be pentatonic as well, but a completely different sound. So why can't it be considred a seperate scale just like the minor pentatonic scales are?


The pentatonic scales are made up of intervals of minor 3rds and major 2nds. They were developed because a minor second interval is supposed to be hard to sing. So they're basically the major and minor scales without those intervals. You could consider what you wrote as being a separate scale if you wish, but it wouldn't really serve a purpose.
#39
Quote by jdmusic
Satch's favourite mode he stated is Mixolydian

so it's possible that its B Mixolydian


He has stated on several occasions that his favorite scale is phrygian dominant, and that he uses every mode frequently.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#40
Quote by Ænimus Prime
Could you explain how the A Lydian 'scale' is different to the A Lydian mode and the E major scale?

Great, we're going to start this again.

The mode is defined by two things; the harmonic context and the scale you use over it. With something like an Amaj7#11, you'd play the A Lydian scale over it; playing another scale means you're not playing A Lydian. The A Lydian scale begins on a different note and is also used in the context of A Lydian harmony; for example, if you're playing over a static E major chord, you can play an E major scale but not A Lydian.
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