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#1
I found this on Google Video.

Youtube

Discuss.

Edit: This is from June 19, 2008
Why should I come down?
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Last edited by RocknRollRay at Jun 24, 2008,
#3
It is still there.


This is a tough issue to fight. Counter-terrorism has become a necesaary part of our society sadly, it just depends on how much you're willing to give up so others can live.
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#4
Quote by Funkbass796
It is still there.


This is a tough issue to fight. Counter-terrorism has become a necesaary part of our society sadly, it just depends on how much you're willing to give up so others can live.


That's what they want you to believe.
#6
Quote by Funkbass796
It is still there.


This is a tough issue to fight. Counter-terrorism has become a necesaary part of our society sadly, it just depends on how much you're willing to give up so others can live.



Americas greatest threat is America.
#7
Quote by macho man
That's what they want you to believe.


Dude, if listening in on phone conversations is a necessary part of life so that one death is prevented, then i'm for it.

However, the whole trial system without habeus corpus for suspected terrorists and such is complete bull.
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#8
Quote by macho man
That's what they want you to believe.



Exactly, you shouldn't give up dick. Ben Franklin once said something to the effect "Those who give up freedom for safety deserve neither freedom nor safety."
#9
Wow I'll feel like I'm in 1984.

I'm gonna call the White House tomorrow and suggest that they call themselves Big Brother.
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#10
You guys dont get it, they target induviduals to listen to. It would be impossible for any government agency or telecom company to survey all conversations taking place in the whole country because there are simply too many. If you are deemed a threat then they can tap your phone without notifying you
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#11
Quote by acoginthesystem
Exactly, you shouldn't give up dick. Ben Franklin once said something to the effect "Those who give up freedom for safety deserve neither freedom nor safety."



Ben Franklin also lived in a time when mass murder was a bit more complicated.
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#12
Quote by SuPaGrAm
You guys dont get it, they target induviduals to listen to. It would be impossible for any government agency or telecom company to survey all conversations taking place in the whole country because there are simply too many. If you are deemed a threat then they can tap your phone without notifying you


Sure, they wouldn't abuse that power And even if they wouldn't abuse it, it's a matter of principle, this is just one step closer to them being allowed to do whatever they want in the name of security.


Quote by Funkbass796
Dude, if listening in on phone conversations is a necessary part of life so that one death is prevented, then i'm for it.

However, the whole trial system without habeus corpus for suspected terrorists and such is complete bull.


There hasn't been an organized terrorist attack in the United States since 9/11, so why do you need more security than you already have? The risk of being killed in a terrorist attack is less than being hit by a meteor.
#13
since when do we need to be completely safe?

if you ask me this is just an excuse for the government wanting more control over people.
#15
Quote by Funkbass796
It is still there.


This is a tough issue to fight. Counter-terrorism has become a necesaary part of our society sadly, it just depends on how much you're willing to give up so others can live.



Counter-Terrorism? Whats the last terrorist attack you heard of in the states?
#16
Quote by Funkbass796
It is still there.


This is a tough issue to fight. Counter-terrorism has become a necesaary part of our society sadly, it just depends on how much you're willing to give up so others can live.



i l'dmao at your avatar...good point though.
#17
Quote by macho man
There hasn't been an organized terrorist attack in the United States since 9/11, so why do you need more security than you already have? The risk of being killed in a terrorist attack is less than being hit by a meteor.


Quote by captainjackass
Counter-Terrorism? Whats the last terrorist attack you heard of in the states?


Oh because it's always better to prepare for one AFTER it happens. I get it now.
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#18
Quote by Funkbass796
Oh because it's always better to prepare for one AFTER it happens. I get it now.


What, so all those checks you go through at air ports, the patriot act, don't exist now? Plenty of security is in place, we don't need more. That there hasn't been a successful terrorist attack in years is indicative of that. There is NO reason to believe that we are inadequately protected, and therefore no reason to allow the government to wiretap anyone they nickname a terrorist.
#19
Quote by macho man
What, so all those checks you go through at air ports, the patriot act, don't exist now? Plenty of security is in place, we don't need more. That there hasn't been a successful terrorist attack in years is indicative of that. There is NO reason to believe that we are inadequately protected, and therefore no reason to allow the government to wiretap anyone they nickname a terrorist.


I still believe there are too many holes for terrorists to get through. And as much as I absolutely HATE this saying, "if you're innocent, then what have you to fear?"
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#20
Quote by Funkbass796
I still believe there are too many holes for terrorists to get through. And as much as I absolutely HATE this saying, "if you're innocent, then what have you to fear?"


You are Bush's wet dream.
#21
Quote by Funkbass796
I still believe there are too many holes for terrorists to get through. And as much as I absolutely HATE this saying, "if you're innocent, then what have you to fear?"


Because, quite frankly, the government's definition of "innocent" might be different than yours.

And, due to the loss of habeas corpus, you won't have a chance to argue your innocence when things come down to their worst.
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#22
exactly. what if the government decides that the war on drugs should also be fought this way? every single dime-bag johnny toker in the country will be in danger.
#24
Quote by macho man
You are Bush's wet dream.


And you're naive.

I'm willing to give up certain aspects of my life, within reason, so that we are free from attack.

This is an issue that needs to be handled delicately so that we can protect ourselves from outside harm and internal harm. Trust me, I value my rights dearly, but i also value the lives of my fellow countrymen.
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#26
Quote by captainjackass
Counter-Terrorism? Whats the last terrorist attack you heard of in the states?

Then it is obviously working, hmm?
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#27
>_>

<_<

I dislike America.

*goes back to listening to Journey*
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#28
Anyone who thinks this is something we should be doing as a counter-terrorism precaution needs to do their homework. If we're going to take measures to prevent terrorism, why not increase our import security so that we're checking more than 2% of what comes into our country? Is that TOO EXPENSIVE? Hell, Bush doesn't even have to find money for it in our budget, he can just add it to the national deficit like he did the Iraq war.

and the risk of terrorist attacks is far from over, but this is certainly not the answer. We're not the only country getting terrorized, but we're certainly the only one using it as an excuse to knock down the framework of our constitution.


edit- and some people seem to have the idea of America backwards. This country was founded on the idea of risking lives to protect freedom, not risking freedom to save lives. If we take up the position of the latter, we'll lose both.
Last edited by Glen'sHeroicAct at Jun 24, 2008,
#29
Quote by Funkbass796
And you're naive.

I'm willing to give up certain aspects of my life, within reason, so that we are free from attack.

This is an issue that needs to be handled delicately so that we can protect ourselves from outside harm and internal harm. Trust me, I value my rights dearly, but i also value the lives of my fellow countrymen.

Do you agree with this statement?

"I'll give up liberties for freedom"?
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#31
Quote by Funkbass796
And you're naive.

I'm willing to give up certain aspects of my life, within reason, so that we are free from attack.

This is an issue that needs to be handled delicately so that we can protect ourselves from outside harm and internal harm. Trust me, I value my rights dearly, but i also value the lives of my fellow countrymen.


IMO you should stop living in fear. If Bush said that Ethiopia was a potential threat to you safety would you believe him?
Why should I come down?
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#32
Quote by angus is god
Then it is obviously working, hmm?

Yes, and that means that this is unnecessary.
Quote by Glen'sHeroicAct
Anyone who thinks this is something we should be doing as a counter-terrorism precaution needs to do their homework. If we're going to take measures to prevent terrorism, why not increase our import security so that we're checking more than 2% of what comes into our country? Is that TOO EXPENSIVE? Hell, Bush doesn't even have to find money for it in our budget, he can just add it to the national deficit like he did the Iraq war.

and the risk of terrorist attacks is far from over, but this is certainly not the answer. We're not the only country getting terrorized, but we're certainly the only one using it as an excuse to knock down the framework of our constitution.


edit- and some people seem to have the idea of America backwards. This country was founded on the idea of risking lives to protect freedom, not risking freedom to save lives. If we take up the position of the latter, we'll lose both.

Thank you.

For those of you who are for it:
How far is too far? How much freedom are you willing to give up? Are you just going to allow the government to monitor everything you do just because it's to protect you? A life without freedom is a life that is not worth living.
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Last edited by SOADrox429 at Jun 24, 2008,
#33
I noticed a few anti-Bush stuff, so here's my two cents.

I support him, but I'm ready to get rid of him. Being a Republican, I feel like the whole big government thing that Clinton started was terrible. I think that those that work for their money should be able to keep their money, and only people who CANNOT WORK FOR THEMSELVES should recieve financial help... not those jackoffs who just don't want to work, so they get my tax dollars (yes they exist... I dated one). That being said, not everyone is like that, I understand that some people have been injured and cannot work for themselves. I am more than happy to help them.

But, I am voting for McCain, the way I look at it, I feel like he's the best thing for us now... compared to Messiah Obama's "change" campaign. If by "change" he means "inexperience", "charisma and empty promises", and "tax raises", then yes, change it is. Who do you think is going to fund all his changes? Well, with all his "proposals" and "promises", it looks like lower-middle class citizens like me will be receiving a majority of the hit from him.

/steps off soap box
//McCain 08
#34
Quote by ckellingc
I noticed a few anti-Bush stuff, so here's my two cents.

I support him, but I'm ready to get rid of him. Being a Republican, I feel like the whole big government thing that Clinton started was terrible. I think that those that work for their money should be able to keep their money, and only people who CANNOT WORK FOR THEMSELVES should recieve financial help... not those jackoffs who just don't want to work, so they get my tax dollars (yes they exist... I dated one). That being said, not everyone is like that, I understand that some people have been injured and cannot work for themselves. I am more than happy to help them.

But, I am voting for McCain, the way I look at it, I feel like he's the best thing for us now... compared to Messiah Obama's "change" campaign. If by "change" he means "inexperience", "charisma and empty promises", and "tax raises", then yes, change it is. Who do you think is going to fund all his changes? Well, with all his "proposals" and "promises", it looks like lower-middle class citizens like me will be receiving a majority of the hit from him.

/steps off soap box
//McCain 08


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#35
Quote by ckellingc
I noticed a few anti-Bush stuff, so here's my two cents.

I support him, but I'm ready to get rid of him. Being a Republican, I feel like the whole big government thing that Clinton started was terrible. I think that those that work for their money should be able to keep their money, and only people who CANNOT WORK FOR THEMSELVES should recieve financial help... not those jackoffs who just don't want to work, so they get my tax dollars (yes they exist... I dated one). That being said, not everyone is like that, I understand that some people have been injured and cannot work for themselves. I am more than happy to help them.

But, I am voting for McCain, the way I look at it, I feel like he's the best thing for us now... compared to Messiah Obama's "change" campaign. If by "change" he means "inexperience", "charisma and empty promises", and "tax raises", then yes, change it is. Who do you think is going to fund all his changes? Well, with all his "proposals" and "promises", it looks like lower-middle class citizens like me will be receiving a majority of the hit from him.

/steps off soap box
//McCain 08

+1
#36
Quote by SOADrox429
Yes, and that means that this is unnecessary.


So you are saying that because a window is doing exactly what its supposed to do by keeping out the wind and cold it then becomes unnecessary and needs to be taken away?

But the wind will blow again so you will have to put the window back in instead of leaving it there to protect you from the wind all this time.

EDIT: to ckellingc..........I love you, you said everything I was thinking. Plus Obama said in a speech "why should we have so much when others have so little? Why do we deserve these homes and cars and fancy things?"

and all my dad had to say was "because I ****ing worked for it dumbass"
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Last edited by angus is god at Jun 24, 2008,
#37
Just wait till they take away our journals, and then the new digital television thing taking place, is actually a way for the government to watch what we are doing. Gotta love Big Brother always watching out for us.
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#39
Quote by angus is god
So you are saying that because a window is doing exactly what its supposed to do by keeping out the wind and cold it then becomes unnecessary and needs to be taken away?

But the wind will blow again so you will have to put the window back in instead of leaving it there to protect you from the wind all this time.

No, I'm not. I'm saying that if a window is there and doing exactly what it's supposed to do, a second sheet of glass is not necessary.
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#40
Quote by Funkbass796
And you're naive.

I'm willing to give up certain aspects of my life, within reason, so that we are free from attack.

This is an issue that needs to be handled delicately so that we can protect ourselves from outside harm and internal harm. Trust me, I value my rights dearly, but i also value the lives of my fellow countrymen.


I'd venture to say that terrorism is far from the only threat. Unfortunately, our government is using terrorism and the "war on terror" to exert even more control and further infringe on civil liberties.

Fear allows for greater control. Unfortunately, most people are giving into the fear.
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