#1
I'm having my first show with my new band Friday, same drummer though. He ALWAYS feels the need to mic his whole kit with all his mics he bought for it. He hits hard as hell and already is the loudest during practice, my other guitarists peavey valveking needs to be on 7-8 with the kit un-mic'd.. Yet they all feel the need everything needs to be mic'd in a small teen club that no more then 100 people will be at. The situation just feels so awkward when I'm like guys, I don't think we have to do this. Also another reason why I'm stressing out is because we don't have a PA good enough to handle this + make vocals loud enough over the drums. Hopefully they will realize it when we check sound. Have any of you dealt with this?
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#2
maybe mic just the bass drum? and he's probly excited to use his new mics, maybe let him mic them, then turn down everything but the bass drum?
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#3
Quote by Lt.DanHasLegs
maybe mic just the bass drum? and he's probly excited to use his new mics, maybe let him mic them, then turn down everything but the bass drum?


Hes always had these mics, and with my old band always wanted to mic is kit too..
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#5
Quote by Lt.DanHasLegs
maybe mic just the bass drum? and he's probly excited to use his new mics, maybe let him mic them, then turn down everything but the bass drum?


Hes always had these mics, and with my old band always wanted to mic is kit, but I've told him we don't need it but this time he seems pretty set on having everything go thru a PA.

Hes planning to use our practice PA to mic all the instruments and send vocals through the clubs PA.
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#6
just let him mic it, then turn down his volume so that everything is at a respectable level. no harm in using them, i know if i got some new gear, id be dying to use it right away
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#7
Quote by Lt.DanHasLegs
maybe mic just the bass drum? and he's probly excited to use his new mics, maybe let him mic them, then turn down everything but the bass drum?


+1. Heard of volume? Turn down the drums, this way it adds more... presence (as in, drums are just a little more "there", and not from a single direction), as unmic'd drums do sound "odd" sometimes.
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#8
Tell him no?
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#9
So do the same with amps?
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#10
Use the clubs PA. Most places have a PA that can handle much more instruments then a Cheap little PA. Also most of the time when you are playing in a club when all instruments are mic'd You don't have to turn your amp up as loud, I've never had to turn past 4 live as long as I was mic'd. Honestly talk to the guy working the mixer, he should tell you what the best idea for "your" sound is.
#11
absolutely no reason to mic drums in a place like that.
just tell him to quit his bitching.
#12
You see, our town has no music scene, just this group of guys that like to play music.. So we work all our soundchecking, mixing, put on shows when people want to hear us. So that PA there is probably more for public speaking, since it's a youth group place for Church/teen hangout. And our practice one can't get loud enough either. But we'll have to see.
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#13
Mic everything. With everything going to the mixing board, the engineer can have much more control; not only with volume, but outboard gear, such as reverb and compression as well. Compression is extremely important for live sound as the dynamic range available is much less than in a studio. You have a higher noise floor (crowd) as well a lower maximum amplitude. (club regulations, noise laws etc.)
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#14
Quote by Pg.inc_music
Use the clubs PA. Most places have a PA that can handle much more instruments then a Cheap little PA. Also most of the time when you are playing in a club when all instruments are mic'd You don't have to turn your amp up as loud, I've never had to turn past 4 live as long as I was mic'd. Honestly talk to the guy working the mixer, he should tell you what the best idea for "your" sound is.


This.
#15
Quote by ufossuck
Mic everything. With everything going to the mixing board, the engineer can have much more control; not only with volume, but outboard gear, such as reverb and compression as well. Compression is extremely important for live sound as the dynamic range available is much less than in a studio. You have a higher noise floor (crowd) as well a lower maximum amplitude. (club regulations, noise laws etc.)



I wouldn't agree there totally mate. When I studied sound engineering in college, we went on work experience and we found that, depending on the music, that micing everything up was no always advantageous to the band. It was pleasing to the engineer and the crowd, but the band often found it frustrating.
Plus, when I played a gig on one occasion for a youth group, the engineer hired wanted everything miced up and I couldn't here my guitar, and he didn;t earth the microphone and I was severly electrocuted...he and the crowd could here it though and didn't notice the extreme anguish I suffered any time I sang into the microphone and touched it with my lips! It pointless if I can't here what I'm playing as well!

I totally agree with the compression and reverb control though being left to a professional. You have to look out for all those kind of problems:
My mates band had to stop his gig mid way through as the police were called through excessive noise levels. They of course thought it was hardcore rockin'; the band was doing their own sound and they didn't hire an engineer and that was their downfall.

So to the TS, I would personally ask the same question to the professional at the gig. Make sure you have a sound check that you are happy with. Do not be afraid to tell him off if you don't feel it reaches the levels that you want. An engineer, your drummer with all his mics, they are only human and don't always know whats best, so experiment with the sound options yourself.
PA's with insufficient power output can be very frustrating but don't worry about it, the engineer on the scene should always have his own personal system that should be more than enough to mic up everything, if needed.
#16
We don't have an engineer .. We check and mix everything ourselves. I think I'll just let them mic everything up so it doesn't cause frustration and then just do a soundcheck from there.
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#17
Quote by AngryGoldfish

Plus, when I played a gig on one occasion for a youth group, the engineer hired wanted everything miced up and I couldn't here my guitar, and he didn;t earth the microphone and I was severly electrocuted...he and the crowd could here it though and didn't notice the extreme anguish I suffered any time I sang into the microphone and touched it with my lips! It pointless if I can't here what I'm playing as well!

Didn't you have foldback monitors? The guys gotta mix those for you as well. And what did he do with the mic? Do you mean he ground lifted it to avoid a loop? I can't see how that could result in you getting shocked. The only way I could think of a mic shocking you is if it had a short and was receiving phantom power. Usually you'd be using a dynamic mic for live sound, so I think you just didn't have a great engineer.

You do have a point with it not always being an advantage though. Sometimes you don't need overheads or tom mics in a small venue. If you have too small of a board, you won't want to run out of channels. In a club with its own gear though, this shouldn't be an issue and if you have the mics, use them.

The most important thing is the engineer. If you have the proper gear and a guy who knows how to use it, everything should work.
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#18
i guess if you use those things in your ears so you can hear the whole sound, its good to mic everything
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#19
It all depends on the size of the venue and how loud your amps are, as to whether they need mic'd or not. Though some sound guys will insist on you having the amps quiet and mic'd, so they can be the boss of you.
#21
Quote by Simsimius
+1. Heard of volume? Turn down the drums, this way it adds more... presence (as in, drums are just a little more "there", and not from a single direction), as unmic'd drums do sound "odd" sometimes.

If they're acoustic, there will still be original sound coming out of it.

Well dude
#22
Quote by ufossuck
Didn't you have foldback monitors? The guys gotta mix those for you as well. And what did he do with the mic? Do you mean he ground lifted it to avoid a loop? I can't see how that could result in you getting shocked. The only way I could think of a mic shocking you is if it had a short and was receiving phantom power. Usually you'd be using a dynamic mic for live sound, so I think you just didn't have a great engineer.

You do have a point with it not always being an advantage though. Sometimes you don't need overheads or tom mics in a small venue. If you have too small of a board, you won't want to run out of channels. In a club with its own gear though, this shouldn't be an issue and if you have the mics, use them.

The most important thing is the engineer. If you have the proper gear and a guy who knows how to use it, everything should work.


It must of been something like that concerning the mics shocking me. It was only that particular microphone, all the other ones didn't do it. You would expect that he would be using dynamic mics, but I did this gig years ago, before I knew anything about musical gear and sound engineering so I can't remember anything about how he worked or what he was using. I heard from someone else that day as well that they thought he was doing a suck ass job of it all. Real ignorant as well.
A good sound engineer is someone who can spot a problem and narrow it down and resolve it so that the music is not interefered with in any way. He just couldn't a crap whether I was getting shocked or not.

Overhead mics are not always needed like you say, but a kick drum mic would be. If he doesn't have an engineer with his own personal system, he needs to make sure the vocals are heard and then see what else he can throw in the mix.
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#23
Yeah no, in a club like that, tell the drummer to sit in his place, he doesn't need ****ing mics going through the PA. If you want to record, that's a different story, but he doesn't need mics through the PA. You can probably mic the guitar and bass if he plays loud.
#24
the sound of the drums will change when using mic, the sounds get better, I had the same problem with a drummer, he hits too hard, then I got 350w, so my only adwise, turn up your amps
#25
when i work venues this size i mike up allmost everything and on the drums i only raise the base drum and toms level some times a bit of snare but overhead no way cos theese vewnues are usualy very reflectant and cymbals sound pretty damn loud, but why do i do it? placebo efect when musician think that a change has taken place they hear it, sometimes a vocalist askes for more brilliance and before you even gets your fingers to the eq sections he shouts from the stage YES THAT'S IT, RIGHT THERE, well it things that happens it¨s not to be mean or arrogant or make a joke out of people that i do it but it really makes my job easyer.
Last edited by vitrolin at Jul 16, 2008,
#26
Quote by vitrolin
when i work venues this size i mike up allmost everything and on the drums i only raise the base drum and toms level some times a bit of snare but overhead no way cos theese vewnues are usualy very reflectant and cymbals sound pretty damn loud, but why do i do it? placebo efect when musician think that a change has taken place they hear it, sometimes a vocalist askes for more brilliance and before you even gets your fingers to the eq sections he shouts from the stage YES THAT'S IT, RIGHT THERE, well it things that happens it¨s not to be mean or arrogant or make a joke out of people that i do it but it really makes my job easyer.


I've tried doing that as well with a young lad who seemed very particular about his guitar tone, even though he only had a Squier and a Marshall Solid State amp. But, true to his word, he did know a few things about tone and he had a good ear for it; My attempt at giving him the 'placebo' affect didn't succed as he kept telling me to tweak it more, when really I hadn't even touched the settings at all. There was no getting past this 13 year old!
#27
Can I ask, is that peavey valveking on overdrive setting or clean setting?
'Cause there's no way on overdrive that an un-miced kit would be louder.

And, kit should be miced up because it's naff at shows where you can only hear the bass drum, not feel it
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#28
It always annoys me that drums are so loud; i'd gladly play at half the volume if i could be heard over our drummer. I suggested using some of those muting things to reduce the volume; that way our friends might actually be able to hold a conversation when we were playing. But no, that would "kill his tone."
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#29
Quote by boreamor
Mic the bass drum and have 2 overheads. It's all you need for a venue of that size.


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#30
Well, generally, micing the drums is a good thing, IMO.

Although it depends how many he has.
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#32
We always put mics on all of the instruments and let the sound engineers level the volumes while we give them instructions on how we want to sound. It's actually quite easy and quick.
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#33
Quote by Lin
It always annoys me that drums are so loud; i'd gladly play at half the volume if i could be heard over our drummer. I suggested using some of those muting things to reduce the volume; that way our friends might actually be able to hold a conversation when we were playing. But no, that would "kill his tone."


I have a drummer who is both polite, technical, impressive and content. I never understood why everyone gives drummer's so much stick; All the people who I have jammed with have been polite, distinct and try to play in condusive way to your own. I'm a drummer and I don't try overcrowd anyone else in the band, thats just pathetic.