#1
My Band has been trying to record for a few days, and we've run into some issues. First is actually recording the guitars. We currently are in possesion of the following:
Guitar Amps
Garageband
Shure PG48 Mic (dynamic mic, correct me if im wrong)

We tried recording into garageband directin, but we didnt have much luck. SO my question is, what, in your opinion, would be the most effective method of recording, given our equipment?
#2
Most effective method?

Pitch in $20-30 each and head to a studio for a day.
#5
im checkin out some studios, and im seeing $70 per hour, that seems like alot, how long does it usually take to record?
#6
$70 an hour? That seems rather high. I know places that go as low as $15 an hour...
#10
I'll help you out, since it might be a bit costly to go into a studio.

I'm going to assume you've only got the one dynamic mic.

Turn the gain on your guitar lower than you normally play. Make sure it sounds good in the room your playing it in. You'll want to listen to the amp from RIGHT in front, as bass frequencies tend to move outwards. Get your dynamic mic set up right in front of the center of the horn.

For drums, I dont know. If you've only got one dynamic mic, I guess set up a mic stand behind the drummer and point the mic downards. I would point it at the kick, but you can try other set-ups
#11
Putting a microphone, especially an Sm57, directly on and in front of the cone (not horn, guitar amps don't have horns), is never a great way to get a good tone. Why? All you end up with is treble harshness with no bass response. I'd suggest you move the mic to at least the edge of the cone, maybe even a smidgen onto the paper to get a nice smooth tone.
#12
A single dynamic mic, dead center on the speaker of a guitar cab will sound harsh. Listen to MrPillow.

Also watch this:
http://www.imperialmastering.com/guitartonevid/

DS
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#13
Quote by MrPillow
Putting a microphone, especially an Sm57, directly on and in front of the cone (not horn, guitar amps don't have horns), is never a great way to get a good tone. Why? All you end up with is treble harshness with no bass response. I'd suggest you move the mic to at least the edge of the cone, maybe even a smidgen onto the paper to get a nice smooth tone.


Yes, but depending on how many guitars you have in the mix and the balance you have between other instruments, you might not need those frequencies. Often instruments will be EQ'ed to sit well in between other instruments (for example, fitting a rhythm guitar track between a bass and a male vocalist, you might emphasize 120-250Hz on Bass, 250-500Hz on guitar and 500Hz-1.5kHz for vocals).

That is a little simplified, but the point is you don't always need those frequencies.

In saying that, if you're still learning, then it is much easier to have the frequencies there and remove them later if need be, rather than trying to do it in recording then mucking up and having bugger all bass frequencies to play with later.

Might I suggest a compromise on the studio situation?

It is, in fact possible to record your tracks clean (with amp modelling to give you an idea of the sound) on the laptop without a mic, then run them through amplifiers later. This way you could take your already recorded guitar tracks and the amps you like to a studio with a good selection of mics and just run them through amps in the room. You save on wasting money on 'red light fever' and experimentation with arrangements and such.

One problem with this method, however, is that you may not have the best sound card to get a good clean sound. This isn't too big a deal, however, because guitar amps have pretty crappy response above 5kHz anyway, and the colouration the amp would give it should make the original recording quality almost un-noticeable (as long as you don't screw it up).
#14
This isn't too big a deal, however, because guitar amps have pretty crappy response above 5kHz anyway


Guitar amps themselves have excellent response well into the 20kHz region, sometimes beyond. Guitar speakers however, usually go to around 8kHz, which has an entirely different tonal aspect than 5kHz.

The point about putting a single mic on the cone isn't that you're not getting frequencies that you don't need anyways, it's that you're getting mainly frequencies that you don't want at all. All the harshness, brittleness, shrill upper mid/lower treble sounds that you don't really want much of in your guitar tone are found directly in the ice-pick area directly in front of the cone, getting worse the closer you get to it.

To get emphasis on the 250-500hz region on guitar (which I'm not sure why you would want much of anyways, thats around the mud/warm region on the guitar, thats the area where the body/growl of a bass is found, not where you want guitar cutting through), aiming at the cone won't help at all. Seeing as most guitar speakers roll off bass starting at 70-80Hz, you want to get the most of that natural curve, because you'll be rolling off most tone below 90-120Hz depending on the situation, so you want to fill out that little low end you leave as much as you can, as it is the region where alot of your room interaction, cabinet response, damping factors, speaker design etc add to the overall recorded sound, and are quite necessary for an exemplary result.

I'll post a further response when I return, I have to leave at the moment.
#15
I think the best advice is to get the best tone out of your cab/mic combo to begin with. It's alot easier to mix quality tracks than it is to make a crappy recording sound ok and then try get it to sit right in your mix.

There's an old saying that you can't polish a turd. So don't record one...
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#16
Quote by MrPillow
Guitar amps themselves have excellent response well into the 20kHz region, sometimes beyond. Guitar speakers however, usually go to around 8kHz, which has an entirely different tonal aspect than 5kHz.

To get emphasis on the 250-500hz region on guitar (which I'm not sure why you would want much of anyways, thats around the mud/warm region on the guitar, thats the area where the body/growl of a bass is found, not where you want guitar cutting through)


I knew it was either 5kHz or 8kHz.
Also, I did mean speakers, but I could have been more clear.
Just to point out to those who would say 'same difference', sometimes (more so in Bass amps) you don't record the speakers because you want a clean tone, so if you run through your head you will achieve this (and in some cases, the colourisation added by the amps tubes/EQ/anything else in the amp).

With regards to the EQ isolation, I wasn't necessarily saying that particular model was a good choice, it was just an example (although in a particularly busy mix, such as something like a metal song with 3 down-tuned guitars and a down-tuned bass you may need to get that extreme to find room in your mix, sacrificing the body of the bass for more fundamental rumbling and subs so you can feel it).

As for close speaker mic technique, I was half trying to prove a point about isolation, but proximity effect should also be taken into account. Right on the speaker isn't going to do well because of the reasons Mr. Pillow mentioned, but about 1 inch is a good distance back for that classic rock sound. It's all about balancing the time it takes for the low-end to develop vs proximity effect, so if you do decide to mic up the amps yourself, then just experiment. Very small movements will make big differences at that close a distance.

Drums are something I should have mentioned before. You have to decide whether you'll be recording to a click or not. If so, then provided your drummer can actually do so, you should be in the clear to record the drums pretty much at any time (i.e. when you have the money for a good day of studio time - those mics don't set themselves up). I wouldn't recommend doing drums at home unless you know what you're doing and have a good selection of good mics to run into a good interface.

If no click, then it's probably a good idea to do your drums first and have everything else play to that. A common technique for getting the drums down is to record a ghost bass track at the same time through DI. This way the drummer has something to play to for the groove, and if it's a good take on bass, you may even want to keep it as the final bass track in the song.
#17
I was half trying to prove a point about isolation, but proximity effect should also be taken into account. Right on the speaker isn't going to do well because of the reasons Mr. Pillow mentioned, but about 1 inch is a good distance back for that classic rock sound.


Although with some mic's it can be an issue, proximity effect with Sm57s on cabs is relatively non-existent. You have to put the mic quite literally within 1/2" of the source to get any noticable bass response change, rising to about 10dB at <1/4" away. As msot cabs have grills or cloth in front of them that is at least 1-2" away from the speakers maximum forward movement, you can put most dynamic mics directly on the grill and have no proximity related problems.

like a metal song with 3 down-tuned guitars and a down-tuned bass you may need to get that extreme to find room in your mix, sacrificing the body of the bass for more fundamental rumbling and subs so you can feel it).


I've found that metal bass is a great example of the opposite of what you just said lol. Most of the room shaking bass comes from the guitars extreme low end, being rolled off lower than usual in compliment to the slightly reduced level in the fundamental of the bass. The bass is EQ'd with much less fundamental, and far more cutting body and upper mid, as any sort of fast bass lines doubling guitar parts quickly turn to mud with alot of fundamental or sub-aural frequencies boosted.