#1
Alright, so I know the notes on my guitar, and I know the notes of the treble and bass clef, but how do I know where to place the note, and more importantly, when to place an 8VA, 15VA, etc? What's the rule of thumb?

I always seem to choose the wrong placement of the note, and it comes out sounding weird.
#2
I'm not entirely sure what you mean but I know that when you play a note and then want the 8VA of it, you play it like this:
This is the B note on the 7th fret on the first string. To reach the next octave (this only applies to the top two strings, E, A) you play the note two frets up and two strings down as you can see:
E--------------------------------------------19--------]
B-----------------------------1215VA-------------12]
G-------------------------------------------------------]All these notes are B.
D---------98VA------9----------------9---------------]
A-------------------------------------------------------]
E----7----------7--------------------------------------]

So, on the E and A strings, you jump down two string and up two frets. Then on the string D and G you jump down two strings and up three frets, instead of two. Then on the B string, you go down on string and up seven frets.

I think thats right but somone else will most likely have a far better explaination that will actually be sure of being correct.
#3
In actual sheet music, you use the 8va (octave up) and 8vb (octave down) in order to eliminate ledger lines. So you use it most often when you're getting way off the staff.

And remember that guitar sheet music is written in octave up from where it sounds. So the C on the 3rd space of the staff is actually sounding the pitch known as Middle C, which is written one ledger line below the treble clef staff. Many musicians do not know that the guitar (and bass) is a transposing instrument.
#4
Quote by Guitar_Theory
In actual sheet music, you use the 8va (octave up) and 8vb (octave down) in order to eliminate ledger lines. So you use it most often when you're getting way off the staff.

And remember that guitar sheet music is written in octave up from where it sounds. So the C on the 3rd space of the staff is actually sounding the pitch known as Middle C, which is written one ledger line below the treble clef staff. Many musicians do not know that the guitar (and bass) is a transposing instrument.


I think your on the ball there mate, I'm talking a load of rubbish! Ha!
#5
In sheet music, you could write 8ve on top for instance, or use additional lines on top of the pentagram (in most places it is like this, so practising would be better)...
Although I think in guitar you would have to add a 15ve since it is transpositioned sort of, but most times it is made as already known...


Or just use the12-line pentagram (can't remember how many lines it actually had)...
#7
Basically, read Guitar_Theory's post and I'll add a little bit,

Bass is an octave below guitar and guitar is an octave below actual pitch notation. If something is written specifically for guitar then you could play it like normal but if you're playing something for a different instrument, you need to play it an octave higher. To reiterate what Guitar_Theory said, when the notes are getting too high (or too low) you use the 8va and 8vb(is that it?) signs.

Edit: from a quick google search, it is. "ottava bassa" 8vb and "all ottava" 8va.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


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Last edited by metal4all at Jun 25, 2008,
#8
Quote by Guitar_Theory
What the heck are you talking about with pentagrams?

And that 15va is totally, totally incorrect. It would be 16 anyway, but still, that is not a symbol used in standard sheet music.


Pentagram:


I don't know the exact name in english...


The guitar is an octave below the exact pitch noted right? Then for the actual pitch to be noted correctly for any other instrument and adding an octave to it (what he asked) he would have to add two octaves to the notation for guitar....
I don't think I've ever seen a 15va or whatever, I don't know it's correct nomenclature, but I guess it isn't used anymore.....
#9
gonzaw: In English, your pentagram is known as a "staff". A pentagram in English is something entirely different. That's where the miscommunication was.
#11
Quote by gonzaw
It is "pentagrama" in spanish so...

Although the "pentagon" pentagram is also "pentagrama" in spanish....

No es una problema. Si quieres descubrir que significa "pentagram" en ingles, hay un articulo en Wikipedia.

I can't get the accents, sorry.
#13
I just get confused with all the english terms in music

Till some time ago I didn't even know what a step was, I thought people were refering to frets or something, then I realised they were talking about intervals (I still don't know the translation of step )


You missed è in "qué", é in "inglés", and í in "artículo"
#15
Quote by Guitar_Theory
What the heck are you talking about with pentagrams?

And that 15va is totally, totally incorrect. It would be 16 anyway, but still, that is not a symbol used in standard sheet music.


I'm just going to point out that, if you want the performer to play two octaves higher than written, you notate 15ma (though not 15va) above the section. (Two octaves up is a 15th, not a 16th).
(Slightly outdated) Electronic and classical compositions by m'self: Check 'em out
#16
I just avoid transposition by writing guitar parts on the alto clef, much easier.

but to reminde you transpose, traditionally the guitar uses an octave clef, which in this case is the treble clef with an 8 written below it.

make Industrial and/or experimental electronic music? Join my group!

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Last edited by Kid_Thorazine at Jun 26, 2008,
#17
Quote by psychodelia
I'm just going to point out that, if you want the performer to play two octaves higher than written, you notate 15ma (though not 15va) above the section. (Two octaves up is a 15th, not a 16th).



I still have never see a 15 (or 16, I didn't take the time to count it out and still don't feel like it) in either guitar music, bass music, violin music, or the viola music I've played since I started playing viola in 3rd grade. Even on trumpet parts when the note is two octaves up I'll see a bunch of ledger lines above the staff, then an 8va.

I profoundly protest the assertion that there is a term for two octaves up, never seen it in a score, or in any part, classical or jazz. And the only time I can imagine it would need to be used would be for a trumpet player doing one of those really high shrill notes ala Maynard Ferguson, and still then, it's ledger lines+8va.
#18
My guess would be that 15ma (or 15th, what does the ma stand for?) could be used in piano, with the bass cleff, when instead of interchanging cleffs with the trebble cleff the 15ma could be used....

I don't know, but it is a resource to use, although rare...
#20
It's foolish to dismiss something like that, especially since it's humanly impossible to have seen all the scores for all the pieces in the world.
#22
I'm bumping this because I feel my first question wasn't answered, which was where do I place a specific note? It always seems that I place it in the wrong octave.
#25
If written for guitar: 3 ledger lines and a space below the staff (treble clef of course).

If for say piano you have to take into account that guitar is an octave below actual pitch notation so you would need to write it an octave higher which would be the bottom line of the staff.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#26
Quote by metal4all
If written for guitar: 3 ledger lines and a space below the staff (treble clef of course).

If for say piano you have to take into account that guitar is an octave below actual pitch notation so you would need to write it an octave higher which would be the bottom line of the staff.



Actually no, 3 ledger lines below the staff is the non-transposed position. So on a piano it would be 3 ledger lines below the staff as well.

Really the only place you'll see guitar music written up an octave is in fakebooks. Anything written specifically for guitar will be non transposing.
#27
Another question I have is in regards to where to place each octave. Like let's say I played C on the D string, where would I put the C? I understand the music is for interpretation, but how would I go about maneuvering between the two octaves.
#28
Quote by Guitar_Theory
Actually no, 3 ledger lines below the staff is the non-transposed position. So on a piano it would be 3 ledger lines below the staff as well.

Really the only place you'll see guitar music written up an octave is in fakebooks. Anything written specifically for guitar will be non transposing.

Huh?


Edit: To VIRUS, if you download powertab, i know that it puts the notes in the correct spots.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
Last edited by metal4all at Jun 29, 2008,
#29
Yeah sorry metal i misspoke.

Here I made up an example in Sibelius.

The top part is what you would see in guitar sheet music, the bottom part is what it would be in it's real octave.

The first note is Middle-C, which is fret 1 on the B string, then there is E below middle C, so fret 2 on the D string, then low open E.
Attachments:
untitled.JPG
#30
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥