#1
This is really bothering me these days. Back when I bought my 6505 (half a year ago or something), I really loved everything about it. But the thing is, I'm more of a lead guitarist now, than the rhythm-guitarist I was back in those days, and I simply don't like the lead tones I'm getting from my amp.

I have tried everything. I have tried with pickups like evos, JB and EMG81, even Ibanez INF pickups, and I seem to be getting the same problem all over the place. It's just so god damn fizzy, if that's the right word for it.

The lead tone is THIN and UGLY.

No, I don't have my gain over 5, and it's most of the time resting at around 3-4. Turning the master volume up a lot does not seem to help either. I bought a used TS808, which did not do the trick either. Everyone talks about how it "fattens" the sound up... Well, for me it just seemed to increase gain, and yes, I'm turning the overdrive and tone all the way down and level all the way up, don't think I haven't tried different settings here.

I use lots of mids, they are most of the time maxed out, and the bass and resonance are usually around 5. Prescence and treble are also straight up most of the time.

I actually find the lead tone on my friend's MG15 a lot nicer. Although the rhythm tone on my amp is godly and I love it to death, and it beats everything else I have tried.

Now does it sound like I'm doing something wrong, or should I just sell my amp and get something similarily priced (I got it very cheap so I can sell it for some profit actually)? I haven't gotten the chance to try out other high, high gain tube amps at decent volumes, so I don't know if I'll like other amps better.

Edit: And the cabinet I'm using is a Marshall 2x12 1922.
Last edited by Dores at Jun 26, 2008,
#2
Quote by Dores


The lead tone is THIN and UGLY.

I use lots of mids, they are most of the time maxed out, and the bass and resonance are usually around 5. Prescence and treble are also straight up most of the time.





Think about it.

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#3
i had that problem with my amp, and avt150 stack isnt that same as a 6505, but still,im sure ull fine a sound ull like, took me 2 years, but i hvnt had been in the position to get anything better. also, whats leads do you use? I don't think people consider leads as part of their sounds, but really shoddy leads ruin sounds.
#5
Quote by -xCaMRocKx-
Think about it.

i agree with this guy

you should kill the treble man, and/or use the neck pup (i noticed you mentioned the JB and EMG81, theyre both bridge pickups)
#8
I always got a massive lead tone out of mine, you got the mids set way to high. Try adding a delay to thicken the sound a little.
#9
I have tried cutting the treble and prescence down, and playing on my neck pickup sounds a little better, but it's still wrong.

It still sounds much richer on just about any other amp I've played.
#10
Quote by Dores
I have tried cutting the treble and prescence down, and playing on my neck pickup sounds a little better, but it's still wrong.

It still sounds much richer on just about any other amp I've played.


Well buy a different amp (keeping the 6505) and use it for lead tones. A combo would be useful.
Then the 6505 can be used for the rhythm.
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#11
I really would like to sound good both on rhythm and leads on the same amp.

I just don't get it. My amp's lead tones sound nothing like all the youtube-clips I've seen and all the recordings I've heard.
#13
You need to sort out the EQ, and try using the rhythm channel, it's less gainy and smoother.
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#14
Quote by Dores
This is really bothering me these days. Back when I bought my 6505 (half a year ago or something), I really loved everything about it. But the thing is, I'm more of a lead guitarist now, than the rhythm-guitarist I was back in those days, and I simply don't like the lead tones I'm getting from my amp.

I have tried everything. I have tried with pickups like evos, JB and EMG81, even Ibanez INF pickups, and I seem to be getting the same problem all over the place. It's just so god damn fizzy, if that's the right word for it.

The lead tone is THIN and UGLY.

No, I don't have my gain over 5, and it's most of the time resting at around 3-4. Turning the master volume up a lot does not seem to help either. I bought a used TS808, which did not do the trick either. Everyone talks about how it "fattens" the sound up... Well, for me it just seemed to increase gain, and yes, I'm turning the overdrive and tone all the way down and level all the way up, don't think I haven't tried different settings here.

I use lots of mids, they are most of the time maxed out, and the bass and resonance are usually around 5. Prescence and treble are also straight up most of the time.

I actually find the lead tone on my friend's MG15 a lot nicer. Although the rhythm tone on my amp is godly and I love it to death, and it beats everything else I have tried.

Now does it sound like I'm doing something wrong, or should I just sell my amp and get something similarily priced (I got it very cheap so I can sell it for some profit actually)? I haven't gotten the chance to try out other high, high gain tube amps at decent volumes, so I don't know if I'll like other amps better.

Edit: And the cabinet I'm using is a Marshall 2x12 1922.



join the club dude. its very mid heavy i find some of the tones on my valvestate nicer less harsh and warmer obviously and my engl se is far better. you can smooth it out with an od and take the presence down as well as the mids but its still a harsh sounding amp better to get a engl blackmore or similar.
#15
DROP YO MIDS NUKKA

Also a compressor pedal in front can help, then play leads on the neck p'up.

Another thing you can do is retube with a lower gain set of tubes. Try this combination
3 ECC83S's (12ax7) with one of them balanced for the phase inverter in V5 & 2 ECC832's (12dw7) for V2 & V3. Since you are only running the gain around 5, you can use this set up which would allow you to push the gain knob up a bit higher, with more smoothness.

Extracting solid leads from this amp is not as difficult as it sounds.

A permanent solution to solving the fizz issue as well would be to have your 5150 bias modded. The amp from the factory has a non adjustable bias, and it is set WAY too cold for the 6L6's. A good set of tubes can bring them closer to where they need to be, but not quite there. Having a bias trimpot installed would allow you to bring the tubes up to where they need to be, eliminating cross distortion and fizz.
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#16
Quote by Bloodshed
DROP YO MIDS NUKKA

Also a compressor pedal in front can help, then play leads on the neck p'up.

Another thing you can do is retube with a lower gain set of tubes. Try this combination
3 ECC83S's (12ax7) with one of them balanced for the phase inverter in V5 & 2 ECC832's (12dw7) for V2 & V3. Since you are only running the gain around 5, you can use this set up which would allow you to push the gain knob up a bit higher, with more smoothness.

Extracting solid leads from this amp is not as difficult as it sounds.

A permanent solution to solving the fizz issue as well would be to have your 5150 bias modded. The amp from the factory has a non adjustable bias, and it is set WAY too cold for the 6L6's. A good set of tubes can bring them closer to where they need to be, but not quite there. Having a bias trimpot installed would allow you to bring the tubes up to where they need to be, eliminating cross distortion and fizz.


Wow, I would have never even thought of a bias mod. Bloodshead certainly knows what the hell he is talking about...
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#17
Quote by FLCLcowdude
Wow, I would have never even thought of a bias mod. Bloodshead certainly knows what the hell he is talking about...


That just about sums it up.
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#18
On top of the bias mod, you could also get some other mods done at FJA mods. They sound amazing. I don't know how much you want to spend though.

http://www.fjamods.com/5150.html
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#19
Modding it will be way too expensive. I'm not interested in spending a fortune on my amp like this, I'd rather sell it and get an amp that has better leads out of the box then.

Would an ENGL fireball/powerball/blackmore suit my needs better? Has anyone compared them side by side?
#20
Have you tried using a very fast delay or compressor?

Those can both fatten out tone really well.

Apart from that, I'd increase the bass and presence, leave the treble where it is and bring the mids down.

It's just a case of finding a balance between the tone differences from chords and leads.
#21
Quote by Bloodshed
DROP YO MIDS NUKKA

Also a compressor pedal in front can help, then play leads on the neck p'up.

Another thing you can do is retube with a lower gain set of tubes. Try this combination
3 ECC83S's (12ax7) with one of them balanced for the phase inverter in V5 & 2 ECC832's (12dw7) for V2 & V3. Since you are only running the gain around 5, you can use this set up which would allow you to push the gain knob up a bit higher, with more smoothness.

Extracting solid leads from this amp is not as difficult as it sounds.

A permanent solution to solving the fizz issue as well would be to have your 5150 bias modded. The amp from the factory has a non adjustable bias, and it is set WAY too cold for the 6L6's. A good set of tubes can bring them closer to where they need to be, but not quite there. Having a bias trimpot installed would allow you to bring the tubes up to where they need to be, eliminating cross distortion and fizz.
Yes to everything you^^^said. Mids at half, compressor pedal, preamp tubes swap & have the bias adjusted. Your problem will cease to exist.
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Last edited by Van Noord at Jun 26, 2008,
#22
I think the bias mod is usually pretty cheap. Most amp techs will do it for like $50

Here's a good failsafe amp setting

Lead Pre 5.5 Bass 5 Mid 6 Treble 6.5 (either way works well, depending on how much bite you want) Resonance 8.5 Presence 3
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#23
Quote by Van Noord
Yes you everything ^^^said. Mids at half, compressor pedal, preamp tubes swap & have the bias adjusted. Your problem will cease to exist.


It needs the bias mod to be able to adjust the bias sadly. This was the biggest design flaw in the 5150/6505 line
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#25
lol@ all the 6505 worshippers fisting themselves in anger at someone not liking their amp.

It sounds like you just don't like the sound of the amp, if you really can't get on with it then sell it and buy something you like better.

EDIT: \/ Do you really think he hasn't tried that?
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Last edited by timi_hendrix at Jun 26, 2008,
#26
Try cutting the treble a bit
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#28
Quote by timi_hendrix
lol@ all the 6505 worshippers fisting themselves in anger at someone not liking their amp.

It sounds like you just don't like the sound of the amp, if you really can't get on with it then sell it and buy something you like better.

EDIT: \/ Do you really think he hasn't tried that?


I think we're just suggesting things that will maybe save him money.
Some of the mods are kind of expensive, but a new amp could cost more.

I agree with him though, i can't get a really killer lead tone out of it, I've gotten some decent ones though.
I'm in no position to get a new amp though, In the future I'll probably just buy a separate amp for leads.

I say go try out new amps and if you like their tones better, sell your amp.
No sense in settling on an amp when you can upgrade.
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#29
And try replacing the tubes.
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#30
While mods can be expensive, it's gonna be cheaper than buying an Engl. mods can be anywhere from $200 to $1000 depending on what you want. I'd rather spend a grand once than $500 5 times. There's a few mod shops out there that offer mods on the 5150's, so check em out and see which one will be best for your needs. If you dig your rhythym tone, I'd stay away from the Mark IV. Alot of heavy bands use them, Lamb Of God for example, but the circuit is still a hot rodded Fender circuit when you boil it down. Nowhere near like what you've got with the 6 gain stages in the 5150. Google search 5150 mods.
#31
Quote by darkarbiter7
And try replacing the tubes.



I can't believe the whole thread has not been about this. Think about it: guitar player likes tone 6 months ago. As time wears by, tone gets worse. What is the problem? TUBES.


Email Bob Pletka at Eurotubes.com and he'll advise you on a tube swap that will bring out more warmth and character from that amp then you've ever heard before. Like others said, the 5150 and 6505 are set waaaay cold for the tubes they come with, and he can set you up a hand selected set that will warm up your tone!


/thread
#32
Quote by lumberjack
I can't believe the whole thread has not been about this. Think about it: guitar player likes tone 6 months ago. As time wears by, tone gets worse. What is the problem? TUBES.



Or, you know, the honeymoon period wore off and he's realised it isn't the holy grail of amps UG made it out to be?
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#33
Quote by timi_hendrix
Or, you know, the honeymoon period wore off and he's realised it isn't the holy grail of amps UG made it out to be?



Ok let's go with this: it's a combo of our two ideas? I'm inclined to dissagree a bit though, as the 6505 DO have nice leads and whatnot. Not the holy grail, but unless the amp has a problem or is running on old or ready-to-crap-out-on-you tubes, I have never heard lead sounds from it ( in my expereince and the experience of others ) that were discribed as poorly as in the TS's first post.
#34
Quote by BrianApocalypse
Have you tried using a very fast delay or compressor?

Those can both fatten out tone really well.

Apart from that, I'd increase the bass and presence, leave the treble where it is and bring the mids down.

It's just a case of finding a balance between the tone differences from chords and leads.



yeah reverb makes a big difference to the 6505
#35
Quote by lumberjack
Ok let's go with this: it's a combo of our two ideas? I'm inclined to dissagree a bit though, as the 6505 DO have nice leads and whatnot. Not the holy grail, but unless the amp has a problem or is running on old or ready-to-crap-out-on-you tubes, I have never heard lead sounds from it ( in my expereince and the experience of others ) that were discribed as poorly as in the TS's first post.


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#36

These are the settings Machine Head uses on theirs, and frankly they have some of the best 5150 tone around in my opinion. Match the EQ and resonance/presence then go from there. What I would do is match the rhythm gain setting, and use your OD pedal.

If that doesn't work for you, give THIS a try:
Pre Gain - 2.5
Low - 5
Mid - 4.1
High - 3.6
Post Gain - 1
Resonance - 4
Presence - 3
I took that from my favorite 5150 clip on netmusicians. Run your OD808 in front of the lead channel, and keep the tone about 11-12 o'clock. Adjust gain on the pedal as needed.
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#37
Quote by timi_hendrix
lol@ all the 6505 worshippers fisting themselves in anger at someone not liking their amp.

It sounds like you just don't like the sound of the amp, if you really can't get on with it then sell it and buy something you like better.

EDIT: \/ Do you really think he hasn't tried that?

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#39
no matter what you hear on here dude. Don't max out your mids. Especially with the 5150. It sounds like crap Of course dont scoop them either. My 5150 settings.... gain 6.5 low 7.5 mid 4 high 5 resonance 8 presence 6
#40
Quote by timi_hendrix



You're a good man timi, a good man. TS listen to me and timi! And any one who agrees with us