#1
So hear's the deal: Me and my friend learned the Minor Pentatonic Scales and have been playing together with them for about a week every other day for hours and we are having a blast but it's all starting to sound very... samey (If you keep on playing with the same scales for a time you end up playing the same stuff a lot)

He's been playing for about 1 3/4 years and I have been for 4 and a half months.
We need new scales!
#2
Major and minor scales? Do you know those? Those will last you a lifetime. Pentatonic is 5-note, while these are Diatonic scales. Learn these and your possibilities will increase exponentially.
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#3
First learn about the theory behind the major scale. And any scale you want to "learn".
And by "learn" i don't mean memorize the box shape. You should read the Theory Sticky.
#6
Tackle the major scales modes, that is:

Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolodian, Aeolian, and Locrian.

That should last you.
#7
Quote by Atsuu
Tackle the major scales modes, that is:

Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolodian, Aeolian, and Locrian.

That should last you.


Ignore this post lol.

Unless you have a prefound understanding of diatonic theory, you shouldn't touch modes with a barge-pole.
#8
Quote by Pagan-Pie
Ignore this post lol.

Unless you have a prefound understanding of diatonic theory, you shouldn't touch modes with a barge-pole.


I'd sure like to smack them over the head with one though.

I read parts of the theory sticky. The part with the different styles and what mode is used for what is pretty interesting. E.g. the Mixolydian Mode is kinda what I'm looking for (Blues?)

I'd like a simple explanation (in the manner that you explain the birds and the bees to a 8-year old) of what these modes are and how to play them or am I going over my head here?
#9
Quote by Nilpferdkoenig
I'd sure like to smack them over the head with one though.

I read parts of the theory sticky. The part with the different styles and what mode is used for what is pretty interesting. E.g. the Mixolydian Mode is kinda what I'm looking for (Blues?)

I'd like a simple explanation (in the manner that you explain the birds and the bees to a 8-year old) of what these modes are and how to play them or am I going over my head here?


Ignore modes for now. You don't need them, and you aren't ready. Focus on learning the notes all over the fretboard, and the theory behind the major scale and diatonic harmony.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#11
Quote by Nilpferdkoenig
I'd like a simple explanation (in the manner that you explain the birds and the bees to a 8-year old) of what these modes are and how to play them or am I going over my head here?
When a C Major scale loves a D note very much...

Deffy:
First of all, a mode is a way of playing a scale. There are 7 basic modes, all based on the major scale. If you don't know the major scale, learn it ASAP. The intervals are W W H W W W H.

Anyways, since there are 7 notes in the major scale, you can have 7 different root notes (or starting points) and still be in the same key. For the purpose of this lesson I'll be using the key of C, because it has no flats and no sharps, and is one of the most common keys.

First of all, start thinking of notes as scale degrees:

  Note: C D E F G A B C
Degree: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1


The names of the modes, in order, are Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, and Locrian, and they start on their respective scale degrees.

Starting on the first degree, you get 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1, which is Ionian. Also the major scale.

Starting on the second degree, your notes are D E F G A B C D. This is the Dorian mode. Its formula is 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 1. Here's why:


 Degrees: 1 2 3  4 5 6 7  1
 D scale: D E F# G A B C# D

D Dorian: D E F  G A B C  D
 Degrees: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 1


You should be able to see how the F# was flatted down to F natural and C# down to C natural. That is how each mode's formula is found.

The third mode is Phrygian, its forumula is 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1. In the key of C, the notes would be E F G A B C D E = E Phrygian.

The fourth is Lydian. Formula is 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 1.

5th is Mixolydian, 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 1.

6th is Aeolian, or the natural minor scale. 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1.

7th is Locrian, which is a half diminished scale. 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 1.

Therefore, the 7 modes in the key of C are:
C Ionian
D Dorian
E Phrygian
F Lydian
G Mixolydian
A Aeolian
B Locrian


Me:
As you see, C Ionian, D Dorian, etc all have the same notes. Those are called relative scales. Deffy compared the D Dorian mode to the D major scale. D major and D Dorian are parallel scales. You cannot switch between parallel modes over a static chord; if you play the notes C D E F G A B anywhere in the neck, in any order, it is C major, not D Dorian or anything else. However, over a static C chord, you can switch between C Ionian, C Lydian, etc.

Folks, should I get into modal progressions yet or hold off?
#12
Folks, should I get into modal progressions yet or hold off?


You should delete your post, and not encourage him to get ahead of himself.
Ignore modes until you have a firm grasp on the theory behind the major scale.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#13
Actually, bangoodcharlottes post has motivated me more to learn the easy stuff because I now see that I have no idea what modes are good for.

Thanks again everyone
#14
Quote by Nilpferdkoenig
Actually, bangoodcharlottes post has motivated me more to learn the easy stuff because I now see that I have no idea what modes are good for.

Thanks again everyone
The "theory" link in my signature explains the basics well. It also goes into modes and even advanced modes.
#15
The major scale is all anyone needs!

Basically, just try to make riffs and melodies that sound good. With most of the music we play, 1/2 the notes on the fretboard will work. If you land on a bad note, just slide up or down a fret and you're back in key.

I think you'll learn a lot just by learning some songs. pick songs with two guitars and learn both parts.

when you learn a scale you shouldn't just be playing the scale in order. This site right here is awesome for learning some new licks

http://www.myguitarsolo.com/Licks/Licks.htm
#17
Quote by beadhangingOne
Hmmm, that's kind of like pitch axis, except you don't have a chord progression.


Pitch axis rarely, if ever, involves a chord progression anyway.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#18
Quote by Archeo Avis
Pitch axis rarely, if ever, involves a chord progression anyway.


Have you ever heard Lie by Dream Theater?

EDIT: I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying it can be used.
#19
Quote by Archeo Avis
You should delete your post, and not encourage him to get ahead of himself.
Ignore modes until you have a firm grasp on the theory behind the major scale.


I agree. TS: if you try learning about modes now, you'll only make life difficult for yourself later.
#20
Quote by Archeo Avis
Pitch axis rarely, if ever, involves a chord progression anyway.
How's that? I consider D Bb C to be a progression based on pitch axis.

Quote by Pagan-Pie
I agree. TS: if you try learning about modes now, you'll only make life difficult for yourself later.
Agreed, but there's no reason for my post to be deleted; others can benefit from it.
#21
Quote by Nilpferdkoenig
So hear's the deal: Me and my friend learned the Minor Pentatonic Scales and have been playing together with them for about a week every other day for hours and we are having a blast but it's all starting to sound very... samey (If you keep on playing with the same scales for a time you end up playing the same stuff a lot)

He's been playing for about 1 3/4 years and I have been for 4 and a half months.
We need new scales!


as has been mentioned your better off waiting before getting into modes.

You don't need new scales, you need to learn how to use those scales..........

- learn some solos,
- build up a repertoire
- develop a vocabulary

before you get into modes...... learn the Major and minor scales. Learn the theory behind them.

Learning a new scale is only worthwhile if you understand how to apply it .... or have a good enough ear. Most people don't have that in their 1st 4 months of playing.
shred is gaudy music
#22
man dont be hatin' on the pentatonics, their usage has been a major success for too many players to think of and is by far my favorite scale system to use. but anyway, everybody has said it over and over, so ill say it again just to emphasize its importance: learn the major scalea nd all the theory behind it (chords, formula, triads, the arpeggios and all the super fun stuff) seriously because pretty much everything in western music is based off the major scale investing a stupid amount of time into is important. most players learn the pattern then move on to learning a harmonic minor scale because it makes the more metal but then come on here and ask what a relative minor scale is, but no i condone this way of progressing.
seriously though, completely digesting the major is so so so so so important, your theory and playing level will increase dramatically, because as i said, once the major scale is understood most questions/problems can be answered using the theory gained doing this.
hopefully you will take my advice, but anyway good luck good to see that you are really enjoying rocking out with you friend, thats invaluable
Quote by :-D
I go to college with mattrsg1; for what it's worth he is the best guitarist I have heard in person, and in particular stands out from others in my age group. You will not be disappointed, honestly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJpCZpysf94
#23
Quote by Sue
You cannot switch between relative modes over a static chord; if you play the notes C D E F G A B anywhere in the neck, in any order, it is C major, not D Dorian or anything else. However, over a static C chord, you can switch between C Ionian, C Lydian, etc
Fixed?
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#27
Learning you major scale is invaluable, but I'm sure everyone else has drilled that into your head, haven't they?

Other than that, may I suggest the major pentatonic scale? You seem to be having so much fun with the minor pentatonic, why not give the major a try. If you want to learn some licks using it, just listen to almost any solo by Dickey Betts. Blue Sky and Jessica are my favorites (both by Allman Brothers).

EDIT: Oh, and Lenny by SRV. He switches between minor and major pentatonics throughout the entire song. It's good practice.
"It is always advisable to be a loser if you cannot become a winner." - Frank Zappa

The name's Garrett.

Gear and stuff:
Taylor 310
American Strat w/ Texas Specials
Ibanez JS1000
Vox Wah (true bypass & LED mod)
Dr. Z Maz 18 JR NR
Last edited by Iron_Dude at Jun 27, 2008,