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#1
I have the option of buying the Framus Dragon with the Framus Dragon 412 cabinet. The Hughes&Kettner Trilogy with VC 412 B30 cabinet. Or the Engl Powerball with either the Framus Dragon 412, the H&K 412 or the more expensive Engl E412VS.

I want a sound that covers these bands - System of a Down, Mastodon, Deftones, Korn, The Doors, Interpol, The Strokes, Jimi Hendrix, Meshuggah and Alice in Chains.
So therefore, something grungy, that will cover Alice in Chains and The Strokes. But also something with a real tight, low end rumble, covering the Meshuggah, Korn and System of a Down options. But also, a nice bluesy crunch that will suffice for Hendrix, Interpol and The Doors. And then just a classic, high gain option for Mastodon!

Can anyone lend any suggestions or observations? Mainly on the three amps that I have listed, but if there any other possibilities someone feels they would like to add, cool.
#2
mesa boogie dual rectifier
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#5
ENGL Powerball for what you're asking.

Very good cleans considering the massive amounts of (tight) gain that beast can pour out.
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#7
I'd go for the H&K, the ENGL is pretty much cleans and mental gain, it won't do bluesy stuff very well. Same goes for the Recto. I have no idea about the dragon.
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#8
Framus FTW it can do it all.
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#9
Framus will be nice.
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#10
i personally love hughes and kettner in fact im selling my switchblade and getting a duotone soon. but i think framus would be a better amp then trilogy.
#15
There's some pretty varied opinions here, but thanks a lot for your pick of the bunch. I think the best thing for me to do is find the one that I can actually here first hand and just go for it!
Maybe a year down the line I'll here another one and go...damn it, I should of choose that one, but I really can't imagine myself being disappointed with any of those amps. No one has given any of them bad reviews and they are all very well respected.
So, if I'm lucky they will have all the amps that I want, to decipher which one I would prefer, but if not, I'll bite the bullet and go for it.
#16
Don't get a Dual Rec if you want a tight low end.
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#17
H&K.

Very thick and tight sounding amps.
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#18
Quote by FLCLcowdude
Don't get a Dual Rec if you want a tight low end.


Yeah I heard they didn't really have a low end, tight sound. I heard they were more like Marshall, for want of a better comparison. I'm sure there brilliant but I don't think there worth the money that you have to pay over here in Europe, seeing as you can get something just as good for almost half the price.
#19
Any of those would be great honestly, I think the H&K and Engl would be a little more versatile for you than the Framus though, but it's all preference really.

The Engl will have a more brighter sound to it, whereas the Framus will be darker. The H&K kinda inbetween I suppose. Just go play them and find out for yourself!
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#20
Quote by MatrixClaw
Any of those would be great honestly, I think the H&K and Engl would be a little more versatile for you than the Framus though, but it's all preference really.

The Engl will have a more brighter sound to it, whereas the Framus will be darker. The H&K kinda inbetween I suppose. Just go play them and find out for yourself!


I had the impression that the ENGL would have a darker sound while the Framus would ellicit more mid range sounds, slightly brighter. And then, like you say, the H&K would sit balanced between them? This is a major dificult descision: Its my first serious amplifier and it will be the only one for some time so it must cover all areas; they're all very similar and therefore are very hard to distinguish which would be perfectly suited; and finally, I seriously doubt being able to try them out first hand, unless I travel a long long way, and even then I can't be gaurenteed an experience.
#21
Quote by AngryGoldfish
I had the impression that the ENGL would have a darker sound while the Framus would ellicit more mid range sounds, slightly brighter.

The Fireball/Powerball are quite bright sounding amps, the only Engl in that price range I'd call darker would be the Blackmore. Not sure how the more higher end ones are, but those in your price range are definitely more bright sounding.
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#22
The Framus dragon would be an OK amp for about half of what you want. It definately has the best clean channel out of all of those listed although the distortion is sizzly, dark, dry and has a ton of high harmonics. It's not very punchy or aggressive, but smooth, like a 5150, mark IV or Diezel Vh4. I believe that if you're going to consider a Framus, try the Cobra. It's more raw, aggressive, yet just as clean and sparkly.

I would never consider a H&K other than the ZenTera unless they sound better than their clips on the website. Their website's tones sound thin, buzzy, and definately not by any means worth their price.

An Engl Powerball should suit you quite nicely, probably better than the other two listed.
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#23
you're in the USA? what kind of budget? how badly do you need the modern high-gain tone, and how often?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#24
Quote by Dave_Mc
you're in the USA? what kind of budget? how badly do you need the modern high-gain tone, and how often?


His profile says ireland, so that rules out mesa boogie
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#25
Quote by selkies
mesa boogie dual rectifier

All the ones above will slay the Recto

or it may the Cobra I'm thinking of, not the Dragon.
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Last edited by bjoern_swe at Jun 30, 2008,
#26
Quote by MESAexplorer


I would never consider a H&K other than the ZenTera unless they sound better than their clips on the website. Their website's tones sound thin, buzzy, and definately not by any means worth their price.

An Engl Powerball should suit you quite nicely, probably better than the other two listed.

u gotta play one in person to appreciated it's awesomeness
#27
Quote by kckyle
u gotta play one in person to appreciated it's awesomeness


I'll keep that in mind if I see one in a store. I can't believe they posted clips on their website that sound that bad though!
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and my baby....
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#28
Quote by AngryGoldfish
I have the option of buying the Framus Dragon with the Framus Dragon 412 cabinet. The Hughes&Kettner Trilogy with VC 412 B30 cabinet. Or the Engl Powerball with either the Framus Dragon 412, the H&K 412 or the more expensive Engl E412VS.

I want a sound that covers these bands - System of a Down, Mastodon, Deftones, Korn, The Doors, Interpol, The Strokes, Jimi Hendrix, Meshuggah and Alice in Chains.
So therefore, something grungy, that will cover Alice in Chains and The Strokes. But also something with a real tight, low end rumble, covering the Meshuggah, Korn and System of a Down options. But also, a nice bluesy crunch that will suffice for Hendrix, Interpol and The Doors. And then just a classic, high gain option for Mastodon!

Can anyone lend any suggestions or observations? Mainly on the three amps that I have listed, but if there any other possibilities someone feels they would like to add, cool.



dude im selling my carvin v3 just now for 500 quid or so, honestly its better than a dual recto. if interested let me know
#29
Quote by Dave_Mc
you're in the USA? what kind of budget? how badly do you need the modern high-gain tone, and how often?

I'm in Europe, Ireland to be precise.
Quote by MESAexplorer
The Framus dragon would be an OK amp for about half of what you want. It definately has the best clean channel out of all of those listed although the distortion is sizzly, dark, dry and has a ton of high harmonics. It's not very punchy or aggressive, but smooth, like a 5150, mark IV or Diezel Vh4. I believe that if you're going to consider a Framus, try the Cobra. It's more raw, aggressive, yet just as clean and sparkly.

I would never consider a H&K other than the ZenTera unless they sound better than their clips on the website. Their website's tones sound thin, buzzy, and definately not by any means worth their price.

An Engl Powerball should suit you quite nicely, probably better than the other two listed.

The sound clips that I have heard of the H&K haven't neccesarily been bad, but they didn't lend me any feelings of wow or impressionable quality. While the brief encounter I had with an ENGL (don't know which model it was) I was very impressed with its tight rumble.
My budget is 2500euro maximum! NO more! That includes the amplifier head, a cabinet and footswitch (or any neccesities)
Quote by MatrixClaw
The Fireball/Powerball are quite bright sounding amps, the only Engl in that price range I'd call darker would be the Blackmore. Not sure how the more higher end ones are, but those in your price range are definitely more bright sounding.

I'll take your word for it mate!
I have no problem with an amp that is bright sounding, as long as I can reach some nice chugging tones by fiddling around with the tone knobs. A versatile amp in other words.
#31
Quote by Dave_Mc
you're in the USA? what kind of budget? how badly do you need the modern high-gain tone, and how often?


BTW, I don't neccesarily want high gain, I'd love to have the option of cranking the gain up really high, but I never use the high gain channels on my Vox AD30VT (although thats in a different league) so its not an essential thing to have. But I do need raw, punchy, low, tight distortion. Something that sounds real and earthly.
#32
Quote by AngryGoldfish
BTW, I don't neccesarily want high gain, I'd love to have the option of cranking the gain up really high, but I never use the high gain channels on my Vox AD30VT (although thats in a different league) so its not an essential thing to have. But I do need raw, punchy, low, tight distortion. Something that sounds real and earthly.



i wouldnt pay thousands on a high gain amp then mate! get a zvex wooly mammoth fuzz and a335 or tele.
#33
But I want a heavy gain sound, just not death metal; I love those sort of tones, but I play in an underground heavy alternative rock band, not a metal band.
Then again...I play a lot of metal in my own time. I write a lot of metal tunes, but also blues tunes and jazz techniques so...I need an amp that can do it all competantly.
So I do really need an amp with high gain, its just everytime I think of high gain, I think of plastic sounding Spider III's. The best metal bands use real tubes from ENGL, Mesa and Marshall, so I demand something that contains those capabilities and stats, if you know what I mean?
My new guitar fund is seperate as well; I'm saving up for either the new American Standard Strat or a Schecter C-7 Blackjack ATX.
Thanks for that suggestion mate.
#34
ah you're in ireland. Ok, you can try engls in either dublin or belfast, depending on which you're closer to (though they might not have all the models in stock- you'd be advised to ring first).

instrumental in dublin and belfast guitar emporium in belfast.

if you don't need high gain all that often, something like an engl screamer might be nice.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jul 1, 2008,
#35
Quote by AngryGoldfish
Yeah I heard they didn't really have a low end, tight sound. I heard they were more like Marshall, for want of a better comparison. I'm sure there brilliant but I don't think there worth the money that you have to pay over here in Europe, seeing as you can get something just as good for almost half the price.
Recto's have a tonne of low end, but they are loose, unfocused and flubby. I hate them.
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#36
Quote by Van Noord
Recto's have a tonne of low end, but they are loose, unfocused and flubby. I hate them.


I want tight low end, not flabby like you say. I have heard some bad things about the Recto but not a whisper of evil doing with the ENGL, Framus or the H&K. Some people weren't wowed by them, but they were never really disappointed. I think its 'cause there so diverse in their tonal options that you are covered no matter what your particular tone encompasses.

Quote by Dave_Mc
ah you're in ireland. Ok, you can try engls in either dublin or belfast, depending on which you're closer to (though they might not have all the models in stock- you'd be advised to ring first).

instrumental in dublin and belfast guitar emporium in belfast.

if you don't need high gain all that often, something like an engl screamer might be nice.


You mentioned the Instrumental in Dublin already, thanks mate. I think I bought my PA in the Emporium in Belfast. Is that the one with like five floors? Or is it the one opposite a big hotel near that big screen in the street?
I'll have a look at the Screamer, cheers.
#37
nah, the one with several floors is marcus. the emporium is near queen's university in bradbury place. there is a big screen near the emporium too, though, so i could be wrong (but the emporium doesn't have several floors, at least as far as I'm aware).

engl are extremely tight, by the way. Almost to a fault (people who don't like them generally don't like them because they're too tight and a bit "sterile").

sorry for getting confused that i already mentioned instrumental, it's easy to get confused with so many threads...

EDIT: there's nothing really wrong with mesas (in my opinion, anyway) other than their prices in europe- they're more than twice what they go for in the USA, which is ridiculous.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#38
Quote by Dave_Mc
nah, the one with several floors is marcus. the emporium is near queen's university in bradbury place. there is a big screen near the emporium too, though, so i could be wrong (but the emporium doesn't have several floors, at least as far as I'm aware).

engl are extremely tight, by the way. Almost to a fault (people who don't like them generally don't like them because they're too tight and a bit "sterile").

sorry for getting confused that i already mentioned instrumental, it's easy to get confused with so many threads...

EDIT: there's nothing really wrong with mesas (in my opinion, anyway) other than their prices in europe- they're more than twice what they go for in the USA, which is ridiculous.


Mesa's are brilliant, just not as good as the Europian price tag believes.

The ENGL thing. Well you see I want a tight sound but something that is raw and real sounding as well. I guess the balance is very hard to find.

Is instrumental in Dublin opposite the river? Like just off the street from O'Connel street? It it a store dedicated mainly to metal players?
No worries btw!
#39
yeah, i like mesas. I'm not one of the total fanboys who act like there are no other amps which even come close (there are amps i like far better than mesas), but i certainly don't dislike them; it's their european pricing policy which I have a problem with, so i refuse to buy them.

you're right, that balance is pretty hard, as they're kinda opposites... it's like when people ask for a pickup (or indeed, amp) which is good for both distortion and cleans... something has to give, as what translates (generally, anyway) to a good clean sound is normally the opposite of what you want for a good dirty sound. Something like an engl blackmore, maybe, or else look into a different company and buy one of their tighter-sounding models.

and yeah, instrumental is on bachelors walk along the liffey, i think. I suspect it's more aimed at hard rock/metal, but i wouldn't worry about it.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
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