#1
How do you count fifths? if you are going from B and going up a fifth
would you go c-d-e-f-g? and the 5th is g?
and in C c-d-e-f-g?
Last edited by newguitars08 at Jun 27, 2008,
#4
what I mean is when you have a B or a E do you count the B to C a step in the fifths
like a c to d? like when you go from c to d it is a whole step.
when you go from b to c it is a half step.
is going from B to C when going in fifths counted the same as going from
c to d ?
#6
Quote by newguitars08
what I mean is when you have a B or a E do you count the B to C a step?
like when you go from c to d it is a whole step.
when you go from b to c it is a half step.
is going from B to C when going in fifths counted the same as going from
c to d ?
You really need to read that link.

B to C is a half step; C to D is a full step. C# is between C and D, while there is no note between B and C.
#7
Learn your intervals using the link in bangoodcharlote's sig.
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#9
Thank you guys I got my answer
its not just whole steps to the next fifth it is note names.
c-d-e-f-g
d-e-f-g-a
a-b-c-d-e
e-f-g-a-b
#11
Quote by newguitars08
Isnt B b-c#-d#-e-f# when counting up in fifths?
Yes. What's your point/question?

And please use the edit button rather than doubleposting.
#14
Isnt B b-c#-d#-e-f# when counting up in fifths?
That is counting up the B major scale to the perfect fifth (which is a special kind of fifth).

its not just whole steps to the next fifth it is note names.
c-d-e-f-g
d-e-f-g-a
a-b-c-d-e
e-f-g-a-b
That's right, and it also applies thirds and fourths etc.

The size of the interval depends on the number of letters it includes. The quality (major, minor, perfect etc) of the interval then depends on the specific number of steps.
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#15
What do you mean special kind of fifth?
1-3-5 kind of special?

Are the rules for counting in fifths not the same as counting through the
major scale?
Last edited by newguitars08 at Jun 28, 2008,
#16
Quote by newguitars08
What do you mean special kind of fifth? 1-3-5 kind of special? Are the rules for counting in fifths not the same as counting through the major scale?
We name and evaluate intervals based on two, and only two, properties:
  • size
  • quality

Determining the interval's size is simplicity itself. You disregard all sharps or flats connected with the two notes and, starting with the lower note at "one", count every note up to and including the upper note.

e.g., the size of the interval from C# to Bb is a seventh. How did I arrive at this result?
  • Disregard all sharps and flats associated with the two notes. In this case we temporarily throw away the # connected to the C and the b connected with the B.
  • Starting with "one" at C, I counted upward to the B: C (one) - D (two) - E (three) - F (four) - G (five) - A (six) - B (seven).

There's literally nothing to arriving at the size of any given interval.

Determining that interval's quality, however, is another thing altogether. The quality of this same C#-Bb interval is diminished. If you don't understand why this is so, please read BGC's tutorial again.

All the best,
gpb
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
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#17
e.g., the size of the interval from C# to Bb is a seventh. How did I arrive at this result?
  • Disregard all sharps and flats associated with the two notes. In this case we temporarily throw away the # connected to the C and the b connected with the B.
  • Starting with "one" at C, I counted upward to the B: C (one) - D (two) - E (three) - F (four) - G (five) - A (six) - B (seven).

There's literally nothing to arriving at the size of any given interval.

Determining that interval's quality, however, is another thing altogether. The quality of this same C#-Bb interval is diminished. If you don't understand why this is so, please read BGC's tutorial again.
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Being fairly new to this forum, I find that there are many new players that are just trying to get their "fingers wet" , so to speak, in theory.

I try and make my lessons as "simple" and consistent as possible.

My approach would be to convert C# to Db. This will make the key center easier to understand and visualize and play, by keeping all accidentals in the key the same...in this case five flats. (Db)

In doing so you now can convert the intervals, scale steps, into their numeric equivalent and associated quality. As you point out in your example.

The scale tones in Db would be: 1-Db 2-Eb 3-F 4-Gb 5-Ab 6-Bb 7-C

The scale tone of Db to Bb, is now a Major 6 interval, that has a minor chord quality (Bb minor)

The keys of C# (seven sharps) and Db (five flats) are difficult to learn for most new to theory due to the number of accidentals.

While these keys are good to understand in theory, it is good to know that in actual practice, it is very rare to see these keys used in modern songs and even in studio "head sheets".

Hope this helps

wolf
#18
Quote by wolflen
e.g., the size of the interval from C# to Bb is a seventh. How did I arrive at this result?
  • Disregard all sharps and flats associated with the two notes. In this case we temporarily throw away the # connected to the C and the b connected with the B.
  • Starting with "one" at C, I counted upward to the B: C (one) - D (two) - E (three) - F (four) - G (five) - A (six) - B (seven).

There's literally nothing to arriving at the size of any given interval.

Determining that interval's quality, however, is another thing altogether. The quality of this same C#-Bb interval is diminished. If you don't understand why this is so, please read BGC's tutorial again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Being fairly new to this forum, I find that there are many new players that are just trying to get their "fingers wet" , so to speak, in theory.

I try and make my lessons as "simple" and consistent as possible.

My approach would be to convert C# to Db. This will make the key center easier to understand and visualize and play, by keeping all accidentals in the key the same...in this case five flats. (Db)

In doing so you now can convert the intervals, scale steps, into their numeric equivalent and associated quality. As you point out in your example.

The scale tones in Db would be: 1-Db 2-Eb 3-F 4-Gb 5-Ab 6-Bb 7-C

The scale tone of Db to Bb, is now a Major 6 interval, that has a minor chord quality (Bb minor)

The keys of C# (seven sharps) and Db (five flats) are difficult to learn for most new to theory due to the number of accidentals.

While these keys are good to understand in theory, it is good to know that in actual practice, it is very rare to see these keys used in modern songs and even in studio "head sheets".

Hope this helps

wolf
Yes you could do this, but it would be incorrect. You cannot simply arbitrarily change the notation to make the example fit your "theory". You're absolutely correct in stating that the interval Db-Bb is a major 6th. Unfortunately, a major 6th is a very different interval from the diminished 7th in my example. They certainly sound the same, but their theoretical functions are very, very different. Please don't teach your students that a major 6th is the same thing as a diminished 7th. If you do, you're doing them (and yourself) a great disservice.

By the way, I gave this example purely to demonstrate how easy it is to determine the size of an interval, and not to start any type of theoretical one-upmanship.

To the thread initiator:

The size of an interval depends solely on the counting distance between the lower and upper note. If the lower note is any type of C and the upper note is any kind of B, the interval is a 7th in size. If the lower note is any variety of D and the upper note is any variety of B, the interval is some type of 6th, as wolfen has pointed out.

I say again, though - changing the note names to make interval evaluation "easier" defeats the whole purpose of interval evaluation in determining theoretical function.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
Last edited by gpb0216 at Jun 28, 2008,