#1
When learning the major scale should I learn it in the 5 positions or 7 positions? I carnt see to find a good website that shows all the positions of the major scales.

Thanks
Once I shaved them on a friends razor so when he picked it up he just goes "ARE THESE PUBES! OH MY GOD!" and starting beating the crap out of me.
Last edited by TERU at Jun 29, 2008,
#3
If you're going for the 'learn positions' option, then most definitely all 7. However, there are, I feel, much better ways of doing it.

EDIT: Like that one ^
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#4
There are actually 12 positions. I advise you to learn them all eventually, but I would concentrate on 1 position to start with.
#5
Quote by bubbamc119
There are actually 12 positions. I advise you to learn them all eventually, but I would concentrate on 1 position to start with.

No, there's 12 keys.

Technically there's only one position as far as I'm concerened, it jus tcovers the whole fretboard. Yes you can break it down into 5 smaller chunks but that should come later, when you're actually using the scale. I think it's counterproductive to try and learn that way.

Learn the notes on the fretboard, learn the pattern of intervals of the major scale. Start with C major and put the two together and you'll discover the patterns for yourself. Use your ears too, the whole point of learning this stuff is to teach yourself about how certain sounds work together. You'll take the knowledge in a lot better this way because you're not just blindly following dots. Scales aren't like learning a song from tab...the idea isn't that you just learn how to play the scale, you need to learn how to understand and use the scale.
Actually called Mark!

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...it's a seagull

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#6
Quote by steven seagull
No, there's 12 keys.

Technically there's only one position as far as I'm concerened, it jus tcovers the whole fretboard. Yes you can break it down into 5 smaller chunks but that should come later, when you're actually using the scale. I think it's counterproductive to try and learn that way.

Learn the notes on the fretboard, learn the pattern of intervals of the major scale. Start with C major and put the two together and you'll discover the patterns for yourself. Use your ears too, the whole point of learning this stuff is to teach yourself about how certain sounds work together. You'll take the knowledge in a lot better this way because you're not just blindly following dots. Scales aren't like learning a song from tab...the idea isn't that you just learn how to play the scale, you need to learn how to understand and use the scale.


Yes technically there is only one position but there are 12 fingerings (positions) you can use.
#7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPjOPQufa3Q

Ive been watching his videos and he says just learn the 5 positions in each key, now you guys say learn all 12 positions. So which is it?
Once I shaved them on a friends razor so when he picked it up he just goes "ARE THESE PUBES! OH MY GOD!" and starting beating the crap out of me.
Last edited by TERU at Jun 29, 2008,
#8
Quote by bubbamc119
Yes technically there is only one position
That's ridiculous. The whole point of having box shapes/positions is so all of the notes are close by. Considering the whole fretboard one shape completely destroys that convenience. I support learning the notes on the fretboard and the theory behind all scales, but learning the common fingerings is very helpful.

Quote by bubbamc119
but there are 12 fingerings (positions) you can use.
There are seven common fingerings and a bunch more "uncommon" patterns.
#9
yes there are seven normal patterns, but there are countless way of doing it, it all depends on where (fret and string) you start on and how many strings and fret you plan on continuing the scale, putting out an arbitrary number like 12 is silly and confusing to the TS
Quote by :-D
I go to college with mattrsg1; for what it's worth he is the best guitarist I have heard in person, and in particular stands out from others in my age group. You will not be disappointed, honestly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJpCZpysf94
#10
Quote by TERU
When learning the major scale should I learn it in the 5 positions or 7 positions? I carnt see to find a good website that shows all the positions of the major scales.

Thanks



There's basically 2 "standard" finger position methods: 1) The CAGED has 5 positions
2) Three note per string method has 7 positiions.

The advantage of CAGED is it follows the CAGED 5 position chord organization going
up and down the neck, and it's mostly organized on the 1 fret = 1 finger "rule" making
fretting a bity easier.

The advantages of the 3 note per string is regularity in all finger positions. For me
this is absolutely a HUGE advantage as it cuts down on things you need to memorize
by orders of magnitude and tends to be self-reinforcing. Not to mention, it also
falls nicely into economy picking rules.

To me, 7 position 3 note per string is far superior, but either one is usable.
#11
Quote by bangoodcharlote
That's ridiculous. The whole point of having box shapes/positions is so all of the notes are close by. Considering the whole fretboard one shape completely destroys that convenience. I support learning the notes on the fretboard and the theory behind all scales, but learning the common fingerings is very helpful.


If you learn the positions and the theory behind them together, it becomes much easier to use the entire fretboard anyway, as you can hear what notes you can go to.
Quote by justinb904
im more of a social godzilla than chameleon

Quote by MetalMessiah665
Alright, I'll give them a try, Japanese Black Speed rarely disappoints.

Quote by azzemojo
Hmm judging from your pic you'd fit in more with a fat busted tribute.
#12
Quote by TERU
When learning the major scale should I learn it in the 5 positions or 7 positions? I carnt see to find a good website that shows all the positions of the major scales.

Thanks



Ultimately both ways. The 5 standard positions is a good place to start. Once you know the 5 standard patterns its very easy to figure out the 3nps patterns from there (you'll practically already know them) btw neither is superior to the other. they are what they are.



here are some good charts for the 5 standard patterns for major and minor:

scales in 5 patterns

eventually the 3 nps patterns will be represented as well.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 29, 2008,
#13
Quote by GuitarMunky
Ultimately both ways. btw neither is superior to the other. they are what they are.


Disagree. Just your opinion.

I've used the 5 positions for a much longer time prior to learning the 3nps
7 positions. The advantages of the 3nps version are pretty clear. I've never
found any situation where I've needed to use the other ever again.

The only advantage of the 5 position version is that the fretting is a bit easier.
With practice the slightly longer stretches of 3 nps become just as easy, then
the 5 position has nearly nothing to recommend it.

Every single 5 position has special cases. When you're trying to memorize arpeggios
or scale patterns or most scalar concepts every position has to be treated differently.
With a 3nps system every single position works exactly the same way. The
benefits of this are enormous and go beyond just a method of where to place
your fingers. It's a way of organizing the fretboard in a logical way that cuts way
down on special-case memorizing and is self-reinforcing. Long run it will help free
you from finger positions altogether which is the ultimate goal.

Not to mention, you can transfer all the major scale 3nps things you've worked on
to the 3nps versions of melodic & harmonic minor and diminished (which normally
come with whole new sets of special-case fingering to be learned).

"They are what they are" is a pretty meaningless statement. You can definitely
compare and contrast advantages and disadvantages. CAGED isn't useless
and can certainly get you to the same place, but I think it's more work and will
take you longer to really get comfortable working the entire fretboard. Also they're
2 entirely different systems. I didn't find that knowing CAGED beforehand made it
much "easier" learning 3nps. There's some overlap, but not all that much.
#14
Quote by GuitarMunky
Ultimately both ways. The 5 standard positions is a good place to start. Once you know the 5 standard patterns its very easy to figure out the 3nps patterns from there (you'll practically already know them) btw neither is superior to the other. they are what they are.


here are some good charts for the 5 standard patterns for major and minor:

scales in 5 patterns

a little disappointed that pattern one in this link is based the E barre shape of the CAGED system. It's the EDCAG system!!

When I came across the CAGED system it just clicked with me and order ensued on the fretboard. This didn't happen with me for the 3nps pattern. The idea of basing 5 patterns around root shapes and chord shapes to cover the entire fretboard just made more sense to me.

Whatever works for you I guess. Find a method that you like and make the most of it.
Si
#15
Quote by mattrsg1
yes there are seven normal patterns, but there are countless way of doing it, it all depends on where (fret and string) you start on and how many strings and fret you plan on continuing the scale, putting out an arbitrary number like 12 is silly and confusing to the TS


Arbitrary number? I don't think so. There are not countless ways of doing it, only 12, or combinations thereof - for example, the 3 note per string scales are combinations of the fingerings shown below. Here are the 12 positions;
--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|
--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|
-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|-------|
-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|
-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|
--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|
Fingering (starting on the 6th string, 1=index, 2=middle, 3=ring, 4=pinkie):  
134,234,234,24,134,134

--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|
-------|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|
-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|
-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|
-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|
--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|
124,124,124,134,24,124

--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|
--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|
-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|-------|
--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|
--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|
--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|
134,134,134,23,134,134

--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|
-------|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|
-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|
--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|
--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|
--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|
124,124,124,124,23,124

--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|
--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|-------|
--do---|-------|--re---|-------|-------|-------|
--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|
--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|
--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|
134,134,134,13,124,124

--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|
-------|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|-------|
--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|
--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|
--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|
--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|
123,123,124,124,13,123

--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|-------|
-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|-------|
--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|
--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|
--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|-------|
--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|-------|
124,124,134,134,24,124

--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|
--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|
-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|-------|
-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|
--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|
--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|
134,134,234,23,134,134

--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|
-------|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|
-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|
-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|
--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|
--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|
124,124,124,124,24,124

--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|
--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|
--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|-------|-------|
--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|
--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|
--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|
134,134,134,13,134,134

--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|
-------|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|
--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|--la---|-------|
--do---|-------|--re---|-------|--mi---|-------|
--so---|-------|--la---|-------|--ti---|-------|
--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|
123,124,124,124,23,123

--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|-------|
--ti---|--do---|-------|--re---|-------|-------|
--so---|-------|--la---|-------|-------|-------|
--re---|-------|--mi---|--fa---|-------|-------|
--la---|-------|--ti---|--do---|-------|-------|
--mi---|--fa---|-------|--so---|-------|-------|
124,134,134,13,124,124
Last edited by bubbamc119 at Jun 30, 2008,
#16


Say if I wanted to play this scale in a different key, what do I do?
Once I shaved them on a friends razor so when he picked it up he just goes "ARE THESE PUBES! OH MY GOD!" and starting beating the crap out of me.
#17
All you would need to do is shift it up or down the neck so that the blue dots are placed over the note of the key you want. For example, if you want to play in the key of A major, shift that box 2 frets up, so the blue dots are on A.

BTW that box pattern is the 7th pattern I have listed in the post above yours, the blue dots being do - the root of the scale.
Last edited by bubbamc119 at Jun 30, 2008,
#18
Quote by TERU


Say if I wanted to play this scale in a different key, what do I do?


simple.... just move it to a different part of the neck.

Quote by 20Tigers
a little disappointed that pattern one in this link is based the E barre shape of the CAGED system. It's the EDCAG system!!


Your dissapointed? thats kinda silly, as it doesnt matter. its the same patterns. the idea with that page is to show them next to each other and ultimately how they connect across the entire neck.
You can learn them all in 1 position as well. Ultimately the word "caged" is irrelevant. its just 5 patterns. memorize them.... use them.
Quote by edg
Disagree. Just your opinion.

I've used the 5 positions for a much longer time prior to learning the 3nps
7 positions. The advantages of the 3nps version are pretty clear. I've never
found any situation where I've needed to use the other ever again.

The only advantage of the 5 position version is that the fretting is a bit easier.
With practice the slightly longer stretches of 3 nps become just as easy, then
the 5 position has nearly nothing to recommend it.

Every single 5 position has special cases. When you're trying to memorize arpeggios
or scale patterns or most scalar concepts every position has to be treated differently.
With a 3nps system every single position works exactly the same way. The
benefits of this are enormous and go beyond just a method of where to place
your fingers. It's a way of organizing the fretboard in a logical way that cuts way
down on special-case memorizing and is self-reinforcing. Long run it will help free
you from finger positions altogether which is the ultimate goal.

Not to mention, you can transfer all the major scale 3nps things you've worked on
to the 3nps versions of melodic & harmonic minor and diminished (which normally
come with whole new sets of special-case fingering to be learned).

"They are what they are" is a pretty meaningless statement. You can definitely
compare and contrast advantages and disadvantages. CAGED isn't useless
and can certainly get you to the same place, but I think it's more work and will
take you longer to really get comfortable working the entire fretboard. Also they're
2 entirely different systems. I didn't find that knowing CAGED beforehand made it
much "easier" learning 3nps. There's some overlap, but not all that much.



I know and use both, and have played for quite a while myself. I didnt quote you, I just gave my opinion. Why not give yours and leave it at that? why do you have to argue anytime someone has a different point of view? I could see if I quoted you and said ^ WRONG or ^ I DISAGREE, but I didnt do that did I? I just happened to have a different point of view which comes from experience and is just as valid as yours. Everything you just wrote is YOUR opinion as well. So give that and leave mine alone ok?
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 30, 2008,
#19
Quote by GuitarMunky
simple.... just move it to a different part of the neck.

I know and use both, and have played for quite a while myself. I didnt quote you, I just gave my opinion. Why not give yours and leave it at that? why do you have to argue anytime someone has a different point of view? I could see if I quoted you and said ^ WRONG or ^ I DISAGREE, but I didnt do that did I? I just happened to have a different point of view which comes from experience and is just as valid as yours. Everything you just wrote is YOUR opinion as well. So give that and leave mine alone ok?


Woah. Calm down there tonto. I was disagreeing with your OPINION. It wasn't
a personal attack. And, I would have left you to your OPINION, but you stated it
like it was a FACT:

Quote by GuitarMunky


btw neither is superior to the other. they are what they are.



You didn't quote me, but you clearly were challenging my opinion. That's cool. I
only wanted to point out I have facts and reasons for my opinion, and what you said
was JUST an opinion stated like a fact (if there's a reason there other than "they
are what they are" I didn't see it).
#20
Quote by edg
what you said
was JUST an opinion stated like a fact (if there's a reason there other than "they
are what they are" I didn't see it).


fair enough. it is my opinion based on the fact that I have known and used both for years, that neither one is "superior". I would highly recommend learning both, and not viewing them in terms of superiority. When you know both you will see and be able to utilize the advantages of each...... a perspective that you won't have if you just learn 1.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 30, 2008,
#21
Quote by bubbamc119
Arbitrary number? I don't think so. There are not countless ways of doing it, only 12, or combinations thereof - for example, the 3 note per string scales are combinations of the fingerings shown below. Here are the 12 positions;


ok so after looking at your examples, all you did was post two of each of the modal fingerings with slight modifications to the g-b strings. (mainly just putting the last note of the sequence on the g and putting it on the b string.
so what you have is only really six positions of the major scale posted with a unnecessary twin scale. as silly as that is, ill accept it.
and so we have 12, ok, so what you are saying is that there are no other ways of playing it.
wrong.
what if i want to play a c major scale starting on the b string and end on the E. thats another one. hell you could play the entire thing on one string just going up, thats another one too! YAY! there are many many more patterns depending on where you plan to begin and end. and yes they do fall into the all the patterns you listed because you listed the entire major scale system. Ill repeat, you listed the major scale system, NOT the only ways of playing a major scale. and if you come back saying that patterns people can find of the scale are just parts of the scles you listed, then you must revoke your argument because then you awesome list is simply part of the system so there is only one pattern for it.
while i agree with you and the list you put on there, it is wrong to say that there are only 12 ways of playing the major scale. there are countless ways.
thank you for your time
Quote by :-D
I go to college with mattrsg1; for what it's worth he is the best guitarist I have heard in person, and in particular stands out from others in my age group. You will not be disappointed, honestly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJpCZpysf94
#22
I'll enter this discussion from a jazz point of view.


If you're using the 3nps positions there are some very convenient ones but others especially the wide stretches(those 1 2 5 sort of fingerings) that can make it really uncomfortable to add passing tones to your solos. This is of course the jazz point of view, I like both methods, and the jazz teacher from the seminar I'm in gave us out some notes with both methods really combined into effective patterns when it comes to improvisation.


And calm down folks, it's all about helping TS, not arguing between eachother, which leads me to saying that:


Learn both methods, inside out, that way you have the most number of possibilities at your fingers. But don't only learn positions, understand how the scale is constructed so you can create your own positions, across two strings, maybe on only one, that when soloing might help you play more creatively or help you get from A to B faster or more efficiently.


#23
Quote by confusius
it's all about helping TS, not arguing between eachother, which leads me to saying that:


Learn both methods, inside out, that way you have the most number of possibilities at your fingers. But don't only learn positions, understand how the scale is constructed ..........




you are wise Grasshopper.
shred is gaudy music
#25
personally I prefer not to play in boxes like that because when it comes time to play music all you have in you head is a set of scale patterns. I know it may not be the "correct" way to play, but what I prefer is to start in C and follow the circle of fifths around. When in each key, I'll just stick to a rythm and try and move all over the fretboard and explore the relationships between different intervals and chords while trying to keep it musical. That way when I go to play with other musicians there is an entire fretboards worth of musical ideas in every key all over the fretboard. I look at it like a boxing match, if you spend all your time hitting a punching bag, you'll be good at hitting a punching bag, if you spend all your time sparring you'll be good at fighting. If you spend all your time memorizing scale positions you'll be good at scale positions, if you spend your time trying to figure out how to make scales sound musical, you'll be good at it. That's just one man's opinion.
#26
I don't play in boxes, I play in sounds.


It just so happens, those sounds fit with these boxes I've practised, which match up with these formulas and intervals I studied.
#27
Quote by confusius
No, I'm not, I just STFU when I don't know what I'm talking about. ;D


Ok I take it back then.

Quote by confusius
I don't play in boxes, I play in sounds.


It just so happens, those sounds fit with these boxes I've practised, which match up with these formulas and intervals I studied.


right, well scales can be seen as patterns on a guitar neck, or even on a staff. Its common for guitar players to learn and visualize the scale patterns as a 1st step towards being able to hear the notes a make music.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 30, 2008,
#28
Quote by confusius

If you're using the 3nps positions there are some very convenient ones but others especially the wide stretches(those 1 2 5 sort of fingerings) that can make it really uncomfortable to add passing tones to your solos. This is of course the jazz point of view, I like both methods, and the jazz teacher from the seminar I'm in gave us out some notes with both methods really combined into effective patterns when it comes to improvisation.



That's only if you're viewing it narrowly as strict finger positioning.

That's why I said it goes beyond a finger position method. It really works
as an overall fretboard organization. Passing tones are not a problem. They're
just added in in the same fashion with either method. Where they occur is actually
easier to find in regular pattern as opposed to one that's all special cases.

I've never seen any reason to go back to the CAGED system. None whatsoever.
It has zero benefit to me any more. That's mostly because as I've used the 3nps
more and more, I've actually been able to move beyond thinking of the fretboard
as sectioned into horizontal posititions. I see it more as a continuum in any direction
where the scale is represented as a regular grid no matter where I happen to
be. It's as much, if not more, about visualization as fingering.

The real benefit it the huge amount of musical content I've been able to get into
my playing. Rather than painstakingly work out things position by position (if
I wanted to play them all over the neck), all I really have to know is a few simple
patterns in the generic grid and then it's pretty much the same everywhere.
Working in content is a much better use of time than working out finger positions
IMO.
#29
Quote by GuitarMunky

Your dissapointed? thats kinda silly, as it doesnt matter. its the same patterns. the idea with that page is to show them next to each other and ultimately how they connect across the entire neck.
You can learn them all in 1 position as well. Ultimately the word "caged" is irrelevant. its just 5 patterns. memorize them.... use them.


Hey GuitarMunkey, I was being lighthearted, it was a joke. I have respect for your link its a useful tool illustrating the five patterns.

I do disagree with the statement that the word CAGED is irrelevant. What is unimportant is where you start (whether you call a particular pattern "pattern 1", "pattern 3", or "pattern for a pink dress" doesn't matter.) Which is what I think you may have meant.

The "CAGED" part is relevant in as much as each of the five patterns is built around a specific root shape and chord shape. What I call pattern 1 and your link labels pattern 3 is based around a C shaped barre chord as in the following image. See how the red dots make up a C shaped barre chord and the circled notes are the root notes.

(Invalid img)

I think the chord shape and root shape each pattern is built around are valuable pieces of information. Knowing what pattern is next or before the one you are currently playing is also useful and the order is always the same i.e. the pattern built on the C barre shape is always followed by the pattern built on the A barre shape the next is the pattern built around the G barre shape then the E barre shape then the D barre shape then back to the C etc. etc.

Here is the pattern built on the A shape.
(Invalid img)
Note the C shape and A shapes share a root note on the 5th string and that some of the notes overlap.

So the CAGED word is relevant and useful in understanding how this system works.

Now it can be very confusing to think "I'm playing a C pattern in the key of A major". So the patterns need to be renamed. Because it's called the "CAGED" system I was taught to label the pattern based on the C shaped barre chord as "Pattern 1" the "A" shaped pattern as "Pattern 2" etc. But as mentioned earlier you could name them anything you want - even after colours the blue pattern or red pattern for example. Side note (cause I love explaining my own jokes) - Pattern 1 in the link is based around the E barre chord shape hence my joke "it's the EDCAG system".

However whatever you call them when you learn and memorize the five patterns of the CAGED system you should learn and memorize the root shapes and chord shapes associated with each pattern as well. (After spending some time on each shape individually you should also spend time learning to link the patterns together in various ways.)

I believe it is this breaking down of the major scale across the entire fretboard into just five positions, each relating to familiar chord shapes, that makes the CAGED system so effective and appealing.
Attachments:
Pattern 1.bmp
Pattern 2.bmp
Si
#30
Quote by mattrsg1
ok so after looking at your examples, all you did was post two of each of the modal fingerings with slight modifications to the g-b strings. (mainly just putting the last note of the sequence on the g and putting it on the b string.
so what you have is only really six positions of the major scale posted with a unnecessary twin scale. as silly as that is, ill accept it.
and so we have 12, ok, so what you are saying is that there are no other ways of playing it.
wrong.
what if i want to play a c major scale starting on the b string and end on the E. thats another one. hell you could play the entire thing on one string just going up, thats another one too! YAY! there are many many more patterns depending on where you plan to begin and end. and yes they do fall into the all the patterns you listed because you listed the entire major scale system. Ill repeat, you listed the major scale system, NOT the only ways of playing a major scale. and if you come back saying that patterns people can find of the scale are just parts of the scles you listed, then you must revoke your argument because then you awesome list is simply part of the system so there is only one pattern for it.
while i agree with you and the list you put on there, it is wrong to say that there are only 12 ways of playing the major scale. there are countless ways.
thank you for your time


They might seem like 'twin' positions but because of the fingerings, as you play through them, the fretting hand will move up the neck 1 fret with each new position. In other words there is one position for each location of the thumb behind the neck.

When I said there were no other ways of playing it I meant that there are no other fingerings available. Obviously you can mix and match them like you suggest for example 3nps scales or the scale on one string only, but the fingerings will fall into those that I listed. BTW I just realised that the 10th position I've shown was incorrect, which I will fix now.
#31
Quote by 20Tigers
Hey GuitarMunkey, I was being lighthearted, it was a joke. I have respect for your link its a useful tool illustrating the five patterns.

I do disagree with the statement that the word CAGED is irrelevant. What is unimportant is where you start (whether you call a particular pattern "pattern 1", "pattern 3", or "pattern for a pink dress" doesn't matter.) Which is what I think you may have meant.

The "CAGED" part is relevant in as much as each of the five patterns is built around a specific root shape and chord shape. What I call pattern 1 and your link labels pattern 3 is based around a C shaped barre chord as in the following image. See how the red dots make up a C shaped barre chord and the circled notes are the root notes.

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I think the chord shape and root shape each pattern is built around are valuable pieces of information. Knowing what pattern is next or before the one you are currently playing is also useful and the order is always the same i.e. the pattern built on the C barre shape is always followed by the pattern built on the A barre shape the next is the pattern built around the G barre shape then the E barre shape then the D barre shape then back to the C etc. etc.

Here is the pattern built on the A shape.
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Note the C shape and A shapes share a root note on the 5th string and that some of the notes overlap.

So the CAGED word is relevant and useful in understanding how this system works.

Now it can be very confusing to think "I'm playing a C pattern in the key of A major". So the patterns need to be renamed. Because it's called the "CAGED" system I was taught to label the pattern based on the C shaped barre chord as "Pattern 1" the "A" shaped pattern as "Pattern 2" etc. But as mentioned earlier you could name them anything you want - even after colours the blue pattern or red pattern for example. Side note (cause I love explaining my own jokes) - Pattern 1 in the link is based around the E barre chord shape hence my joke "it's the EDCAG system".

However whatever you call them when you learn and memorize the five patterns of the CAGED system you should learn and memorize the root shapes and chord shapes associated with each pattern as well. (After spending some time on each shape individually you should also spend time learning to link the patterns together in various ways.)

I believe it is this breaking down of the major scale across the entire fretboard into just five positions, each relating to familiar chord shapes, that makes the CAGED system so effective and appealing.


I learned the patterns independent of the caged concept although I am fully aware of how it works. It was obvious to me where all the chord shapes where in each pattern. So for me the caged idea is irrelevant, but I do see how it could be helpful to you. I can see those 5 patterns linked as in the diagrams on the page, or all in 1 position. I teach them as linked patterns for starters because most players learn to play in 1 key before they can play in all keys.

Also since I don't think of them as the "c" pattern or the "e" pattern, I don't have the confusion you mentioned when changing keys. I actually prefer not to think of the caged system because I see it as being more complicated.
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Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 30, 2008,