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#1
For a while, I've been seeing people bash beginner SS amps like the Marshall MG and the Line 6 Spider. They just go on and say : it's crap, it's SS, etc.

Now, I'm seeing another trend: The "bandwagon" response. Now, maybe they ARE jumping on the bandwagon, or they actually own one and dislike it. Now, you can't say that EVERYONE is jumping on the bandwagon just because of their opinions.

So, because we have this problem, I'd like say something: For a 200$-500$ amp, the MG and Spiders actually are pretty good beginners amps. So are most modeling SS amps. Why? The same reason the cube 30 is good for beginners:

Your tone perception gets more and more precise as you continue to play guitar. When I say" precise" , I mean that you hear differences in sound much better and that guides to you to finding your "signature tone". Now, why would a modeling amp like the spider or cube help you with that? Because they provide you with many different tonal options, so you can start distinguishing tones very early and cancel out the ones you don't want. Then, when your tone "perception" gets better, you can shop for tube amps easily, instead of making a bad decision because you could only get 2 or 3 different sounds on your 400$ tube amp.

So, before you go bashing the MG, Spider, Cube, etc. Remember that those amps probably helped you define the tone that you have today.


PS: If you didn't get the perception thing, think of it as this: You can hear the tones you want and don't want better.


EDIT: I forgot to mention the Vox Valvetronix amps, which are amazing for the price.

Sorry for the wall of text, please don't reply if you haven't read it.
Last edited by Mike! at Jun 30, 2008,
#2
very true. Its actually been a little hard for my friend to find an amp taht can reproduce his sound he gets out of his Spider 3
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#3
I don't care much for the spider 3 but i do like the MG's i don't really get the bashing. If i was on a budget i'd get an MG but with the cash i had i bought a TSL.

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#4
My first amp is a Line 6 Spider III and I think that it has a great metal/hardcore (the "Insane" one) channel and it's clean is also beautiful.
The two others, "Crunch" and "Metal" are only good for playing power chords and when you're trying to imitate an acoustic guitar because they sound so sterile.
#5
I agree for the most part of your statement. This isn't the first time a thread like this has come up. In fact, there is probably 1 a week. This one was executed quite well I must say.

The problem with the Marshall isn't it's quality. For a beginner amp it's not half bad as far as the sound goes. Nothing under 30watts and $150 sounds good.

The problem is the marketing behind the amps. IMO, the Roland Cube 30 is my favorite starter amp, then the Spider's, then the MG, then the VOX.

If compare the price:quality though, the MG falls on it's face. The price is inflated about 30% more than what it should be just because of the Marshall name. The Roland cube straight up sounds pretty nice, especially for the money. I like the spider because of it's versatility, features, and price (quite a bit cheaper than it's competition)
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Last edited by MESAexplorer at Jun 30, 2008,
#6
Speaking of Bandwagons...........


MG hate group

If you notice, they say"For anyone who hates the Marshall MG, or who were tricked into buying one and now hates them!"

That's what I mean. At one point you'll grow out of it, and if you don't , good for you, you're saving alot of money.
#7
i dont think the MG or spider are bad at all
actually i think the spider is a good BEGINNER amp because of its versatility
but MGs are cheap quality and not versatile at all, also they are damn overpriced for what they are, also not being versatile is not something good for beginners, and unless you really want that MG tone and only that MG tone i would suggest other amp
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#8
very well put. this should clear up any confusion in the future. at least i hope. in fact i'm still using my spider 3 75watt couple times a week even though i have my half stack up stair.
#9
i dont understand why poeple just dont et a ****ty practice amp when they first start and get a decent distortion pedal...

you could get really good sounds out of it with a good dist pedal

and you can use the pedal with other amps to get your "sound"
#10
For the price of the higher wattage ones (which is what most people come on here asking about), they're not a good deal as there's other SS amps out there for the same price, or cheaper that are better.

There might be a lot of sounds in a Spider, but there are in a Vox or Cube as well, which sound MUCH better.

The MG is decent for the smaller wattage ones, but people who start buying the halfstacks only get them because the only amps they've ever seen in movies, etc. are Marshalls, not to mention it's a stack so it'll make them "look cool." So, they automatically assume that the amp will be awesome and don't even try to shop around for something else.

I admit, I was like that at the beginning to, as was almost everyone else, but people who come to this forum asking for advice on what amp to get are obviously thinking of their sound down the road and want the best for the money. However, most who want an MG or Spider seem to take offense to people calling them crap and that they can buy better for the price that can do the same thing and are just unreasonable about changing decisions. THIS is why they have such a bad reputation.

No one cares about the people who don't seek out help on gear, it's their money to do with it what they please; however, if you come asking for advice, you better be able to take it.


As for this thread, I'd delete it now as I see it being closed soon once people start flaming eachother.
Quote by Dave_Mc
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#11
I understand that many players have a problem with MGs because of their price, but you have to play an amp for at least a few hours before buying it. That's when people realize if they like it or not. I must admit, out of all the modeling amps, the MG comes in last IMO. There aren't any models and that's why it seems overpriced!
#12
Quote by garrettanda
i dont understand why poeple just dont et a ****ty practice amp when they first start and get a decent distortion pedal...

you could get really good sounds out of it with a good dist pedal

and you can use the pedal with other amps to get your "sound"


That's another option, but pedals aren't used to their full potential on SS amps IMO. Use the amp to find your sound, THEN buy a pedal to improve it.

Sorry for the double post, won't happen again
#13
Quote by MatrixClaw
For the price of the higher wattage ones (which is what most people come on here asking about), they're not a good deal as there's other SS amps out there for the same price, or cheaper that are better.

There might be a lot of sounds in a Spider, but there are in a Vox or Cube as well, which sound MUCH better.

The MG is decent for the smaller wattage ones, but people who start buying the halfstacks only get them because the only amps they've ever seen in movies, etc. are Marshalls, not to mention it's a stack so it'll make them "look cool." So, they automatically assume that the amp will be awesome and don't even try to shop around for something else.

I admit, I was like that at the beginning to, as was almost everyone else, but people who come to this forum asking for advice on what amp to get are obviously thinking of their sound down the road and want the best for the money. However, most who want an MG or Spider seem to take offense to people calling them crap and that they can buy better for the price that can do the same thing and are just unreasonable about changing decisions. THIS is why they have such a bad reputation.

No one cares about the people who don't seek out help on gear, it's their money to do with it what they please; however, if you come asking for advice, you better be able to take it.


As for this thread, I'd delete it now as I see it being closed soon once people start flaming eachother.

+100

There are much better beginner amps for the price so that makes them relatively bad. Why waste your money when you can pay the exact same thing for something much better? $500 on a Spider? Waste.

And no one bashes the Cube. It's highly recommended around here. You're mistaken for even lumping it into the same category as the Spider and MG. The Cubes and the Valvetronix series are a much better value for the same you would pay for a Spider or an MG.
#14
For the $80 and tax I paid for my 10-watt Marshall MG, I definitely got my money's worth. I would expect the little 15-watt Spider III to be a similar deal, though I haven't played it personally. The biggest problem is just the fact that a 100-watt Marshall MG costs more but sounds the same, and then you also have to take reliability issues into account.

If I had to do it all over again, starting from scratch with an $80 budget, but with the tonal/amp knowledge I have now, I would've gotten the MG again. However, if I had a $500 budget (I started guitar before I started working and making my own money), I would've looked elsewhere.
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#15
You're right, theres nothing wrong with a Spider or an MG for a beginner amp. I wouldnt expect anyone just starting to get anything different, a beginner with a JCM800 combo only implies wasted money and either arrogance or ignorance to the fact that they prabobly cant tell the difference between good/bad tone, and it would cause a lot more controversy than a spider or an MG ever could.


To be honest, I think alot of the reason people hate MG's is because they are a beginner amp, and therefore, mostly played by beginners. Someone new to the guitar isnt going to sound good (you know what I mean haha) through anything. I think that some people get mixed up with the fact and hear someone who cant play guitar yet playing though and MG, and overlook the fact that its still a beginner, and think the amp is totally to blame. \

I've seen some youtube videos, with very good players playing through an MG, and it doesnt sound anything like what most people hear. It could prabobly fool most people for a high-end Marshall. Maybe I shouldnt go that far, you get the picture. Bottom line is the tone is in the way you play, depending on who is playing you can make a good amp sound bad or a bad amp sound good.
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#16
Quote by TheProducer
+100

There are much better beginner amps for the price so that makes them relatively bad. Why waste your money when you can pay the exact same thing for something much better? $500 on a Spider? Waste.

And no one bashes the Cube. It's highly recommended around here. You're mistaken for even lumping it into the same category as the Spider and MG. The Cubes and the Valvetronix series are a much better value for the same you would pay for a Spider or an MG.


I've seen alot of vavletronix bashing and a bit of cube bashing.
But I kinda wrote the post a bit too fast, I'll edit it to include the Vox, because it's one of the best beginner amps around/
#17
Quote by DrNick
For the $80 and tax I paid for my 10-watt Marshall MG, I definitely got my money's worth. I would expect the little 15-watt Spider III to be a similar deal, though I haven't played it personally. The biggest problem is just the fact that a 100-watt Marshall MG costs more but sounds the same, and then you also have to take reliability issues into account.

If I had to do it all over again, starting from scratch with an $80 budget, but with the tonal/amp knowledge I have now, I would've gotten the MG again.

Exactly, for $80, it's a great little amp for the price, but once you start getting into the high wattage ones and you're getting the same exact amp, it's no longer a good amp.
Quote by Dave_Mc
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#18
this has been done before.

general consensus is that:

1: spider and MG PRACTICE amps are fine for PRACTICE.

2: Spider and MG halfstacks are not worth the money spent on, because you can get a better amp for the same cash.

3: Spider and MG halfstacks do not fare AS WELL for gigging as the better amps you could have spent your money on.

4: its less becoming bandwagon opinion as it is a fact, because the 3 above noted observations are NOT false.

not trying to flame you, but rather just inform you that we're not just spider or Mg hater simply because its 'not tube" or that "its SS", its because the halfstacks series of those amps, are straight up inferior to other amps you CAN get for the same price.

there's no sense in getting a beginner amp for $500 when you can get a GREAT amp for the same price in your local classifieds.

*keeps spouting redundant points*
Grammar and spelling omitted as an exercise for the reader.
#19
I feel that I have every right to hate the Marshall MG, AVT and Vavlestate, any Line 6 and any of those little 10 watt practice amps because I have tried them all multiple times.

I HATE THEM.
Not just because everyone else does. Because I do.

So, sorry if you guys don't like it, but I don't like those amps.

I won't ever call anyone a "guitar n00b" for having one.
I won't ever say someone is a bad guitarist for having one... hell Zack Wylde claims that he loves the MG's " Crushin' distortion!" haha

If I couldn't afford to have my amplifiers, or if I couldn't afford to get a low end tube amp, I would get a Marshall MG.

But I would still HATE it :]

So. I'm always going to tell someone with an MG to get a new amp. If they can't afford a new amp, then MG:1 ME:0
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#20
Quote by Mike!
For a while, I've been seeing people bash beginner SS amps like the Marshall MG and the Line 6 Spider. They just go on and say : it's crap, it's SS, etc.

Now, I'm seeing another trend: The "bandwagon" response. Now, maybe they ARE jumping on the bandwagon, or they actually own one and dislike it. Now, you can't say that EVERYONE is jumping on the bandwagon just because of their opinions.




Yeah, I already pointed that out.
#21
A person asking for an amp recommendation; that has read posts on UG for let's say "a WHOLE day," would realize the result of asking about any Marshall and especially MG. So it is hard to feel much sympathy for some of these posters. At the same time, it's pretty much the same people, repeating the same thing when responding to these misguided posters. It's that "bandwagoning" that has become most worn out IMHO.

I sometimes wonder if some folks here actually even play an instrument - they seem to always be here!

It is a two-way street...these posters (unless totally new) really should know what to expect when asking about their shiney new Marshall.

....as far as new players go...buy used or buy cheap! Find out if guitar/bass whatever is for you...learn what tones you like (but also learn to play the instrument.) When you know your going to keep "rockin" then sell the cheap/used stuff and move up.

Peace-out
#22
i agree with the vox, cube and i haven't played through a spider so i don't know

but MG's just give you a crappy interpretation of marshall tone in my opinion, which really drive me AWAY from marshalls given that the tone is so AWFUL, most of the people i have met have gone from an MG to a Super Reverb or AC30. Which, i guess, does help them get their tone, but dosen't really do what marshall wanted to do
lol@u
#23
I'm not arguing that if you want to spend $80-150ish dollars on a lil' amp to get going. Sure then, go for a Spider or an MG. My first amp was a little MG. Nothing wrong with it. Was like $90.

But if you're going to spend $200-500 dollars as TS suggested then there is better out there.

Quote by Mike!
I've seen alot of vavletronix bashing and a bit of cube bashing.
But I kinda wrote the post a bit too fast, I'll edit it to include the Vox, because it's one of the best beginner amps around/


I've seen very little of bashing of either. If this were the case, I would not have one. It's an excellent solid stare modeling amp, one of the best--along with the Rolands.

Generally, things only get bashed when something of greater value can be purchased with the same amount of money.
#24
Quote by damnedone
A person asking for an amp recommendation; that has read posts on UG for let's say "a WHOLE day," would realize the result of asking about any Marshall and especially MG. So it is hard to feel much sympathy for some of these posters. At the same time, it's pretty much the same people, repeating the same thing when responding to these misguided posters. It's that "bandwagoning" that has become most worn out IMHO.

I sometimes wonder if some folks here actually even play an instrument - they seem to always be here!

It is a two-way street...these posters (unless totally new) really should know what to expect when asking about their shiney new Marshall.

....as far as new players go...buy used or buy cheap! Find out if guitar/bass whatever is for you...learn what tones you like (but also learn to play the instrument.) When you know your going to keep "rockin" then sell the cheap/used stuff and move up.

Peace-out


Exactly. Play the amp, then tell people why you don't like it. Then, people can't yell BANDWAGON.

Here's an example of why the MG sounds decent if you dial it in well:
Clicky

But I must admit, 100 watts is excessive and not worth it.
#25
Quote by Blues_King431
i agree with the vox, cube and i haven't played through a spider so i don't know

but MG's just give you a crappy interpretation of marshall tone in my opinion, which really drive me AWAY from marshalls given that the tone is so AWFUL, most of the people i have met have gone from an MG to a Super Reverb or AC30. Which, i guess, does help them get their tone, but dosen't really do what marshall wanted to do



Marshall Tone costs over 1600 $. For 250$, I can deal with that.
#26
Quote by Mike!
Marshall Tone costs over 1600 $. For 250$, I can deal with that.


A more authentic Marshall-esque tone can now be found in a package priced similarly to the MG halfstacks/larger combos, though. Check out amps by companies such as Traynor. They get closer to the signature Marshall tube tone than the MGs ever could hope to.
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Last edited by DrNick at Jun 30, 2008,
#27
I didn't bother reading it. These threads have been done before.


Just give it up, mang.
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#28
Alot of it gets thrown on us the responders but alot of it is on the TS's. How many times do you hear yea this is my first amp is a mg halfstack good for me or spider halfstack. Or they want a 100 watt mg combo and so on. Its never hey i want a practice amp around 30 watts just to tool around with. And to level the field even when someone posts up saying that they want halfstack tube amp people jump them so its not just a mg thing. But add in the hate for mg and the hate for half stacks of coarse theres gonna be some mud thrown.... Which is the main issue here, most people agree that a spider is a good practice amp and the mg is a over priced good practice amp and point them to cube's. So i never see someone asking these types of questions about wanting a decent practice amp.. Its always ohhh my gods i wants tha br00talz and a halfstack for $500 bucks i played the mg and love it what do yall think?
Last edited by IbanezPsycho at Jun 30, 2008,
#29
Add this up with the two other threads on the front pages:

"What makes an amp bad?"

and

"What's the worst amp you've ever played?"

What's in the water today?
#30
Quote by IbanezPsycho
Alot of it gets thrown on us the responders but alot of it is on the TS's. How many times do you hear yea this is my first amp is a mg halfstack good for me or spider halfstack. Or they want a 100 watt mg combo and so on. Its never hey i want a practice amp around 30 watts just to tool around with. And to level the field even when someone posts up saying that they want halfstack tube amp people jump them so its not just a mg thing. But add in the hate for mg and the hate for half stacks of coarse theres gonna be some mud thrown.... Which is the main issue here, most people agree that a spider is a good practice amp and the mg is a over priced good practice amp and point them to cube's. So i never see someone asking these types of questions about wanting a decent practice amp.. Its always ohhh my gods i wants tha br00talz and a halfstack for $500 bucks i played the mg and love it what do yall think?


Yeah, that happens alot, but I would say something like: You don't need 100 watts. Get a smaller one, and point towards a smaller amp, like the Cube or valvetronix. Or, why not a 10 watt Mg? Louder= louder, not better.

PS: Producer, I'm defending them, not bashing them. Those two others threads are bashing threads....
#31
I do have to agree with Psycho on this one.

Quote by IbanezPsycho
Alot of it gets thrown on us the responders but alot of it is on the TS's. How many times do you hear yea this is my first amp is a mg halfstack good for me or spider halfstack. Or they want a 100 watt mg combo and so on. Its never hey i want a practice amp around 30 watts just to tool around with. And to level the field even when someone posts up saying that they want halfstack tube amp people jump them so its not just a mg thing. But add in the hate for mg and the hate for half stacks of coarse theres gonna be some mud thrown.... Which is the main issue here, most people agree that a spider is a good practice amp and the mg is a over priced good practice amp and point them to cube's. So i never see someone asking these types of questions about wanting a decent practice amp.. Its always ohhh my gods i wants tha br00talz and a halfstack for $500 bucks i played the mg and love it what do yall think?
#32
Quote by Mike!
Yeah, that happens alot, but I would say something like: You don't need 100 watts. Get a smaller one, and point towards a smaller amp, like the Cube or valvetronix. Or, why not a 10 watt Mg? Louder= louder, not better.

PS: Producer, I'm defending them, not bashing them. Those two others threads are bashing threads....

Agreed on the account that louder =/= better, which is an issue that most people have when getting an amp. Most new players don't realize that there are other things to consider other than volume. Tone might not be in their vocabulary yet even.

I know you're not bashing them. I'm just saying that at $500 (the upper limit you proposed) there are far better options than an MG, Spider, or even Valvetronix or Cube.

It's basic economics. The cost should be smaller than or equal to the benefit. If you can can get the same or greater benefit for the same or lesser cost then that is the logical route.
#33
Well, that would be a classy response. But I do understand some frustration of responders. It may be easier to just ignore the repeticious posts or say "consider the search function." The search function would yield numbers similar to the US national Debt.

Quote by Mike!
Yeah, that happens alot, but I would say something like: You don't need 100 watts. Get a smaller one, and point towards a smaller amp, like the Cube or valvetronix. Or, why not a 10 watt Mg? Louder= louder, not better.

PS: Producer, I'm defending them, not bashing them. Those two others threads are bashing threads....
#34
Quote by Mike!
For a while, I've been seeing people bash beginner SS amps like the Marshall MG and the Line 6 Spider. They just go on and say : it's crap, it's SS, etc.

Now, I'm seeing another trend: The "bandwagon" response. Now, maybe they ARE jumping on the bandwagon, or they actually own one and dislike it. Now, you can't say that EVERYONE is jumping on the bandwagon just because of their opinions.

So, because we have this problem, I'd like say something: For a 200$-500$ amp, the MG and Spiders actually are pretty good beginners amps. So are most modeling SS amps. Why? The same reason the cube 30 is good for beginners:

Your tone perception gets more and more precise as you continue to play guitar. When I say" precise" , I mean that you hear differences in sound much better and that guides to you to finding your "signature tone". Now, why would a modeling amp like the spider or cube help you with that? Because they provide you with many different tonal options, so you can start distinguishing tones very early and cancel out the ones you don't want. Then, when your tone "perception" gets better, you can shop for tube amps easily, instead of making a bad decision because you could only get 2 or 3 different sounds on your 400$ tube amp.

So, before you go bashing the MG, Spider, Cube, etc. Remember that those amps probably helped you define the tone that you have today.


PS: If you didn't get the perception thing, think of it as this: You can hear the tones you want and don't want better.


EDIT: I forgot to mention the Vox Valvetronix amps, which are amazing for the price.

Sorry for the wall of text, please don't reply if you haven't read it.


I only give the bandwagon response when someone makes an idiotic blanket statement like "TUBE > SS" or "LINE 6 IS JUNK".

I will never recommend an MG because they're appalling and overpriced. Spiders there's a grey area with since they can make good enough practice amps but honestly how many people come on here asking anything other than "What halfstack is good for metal, I was looking at the Spider III 150". I just plain don't like the sound of Cubes, I think they're really overrated.

I started out on a generic SS amp with pretty dull overdrive. Then I bought a cheap zoom multi-fx pedal. I think that was the perfect way to do it, I had a decent enough sounding practice amp to learn on and it didn't mask my mistakes with a crapload of gain (Spiders and Cubes, I'm looking at you), meaning that my playing has always been clean. The multi-fx was a good first step into the world of effects and pedals, they let you discover yourself what kind of sounds and effects you like. Modelling amps can serve pretty much the same purpose but when you're a beginner you just turn everything up full because you don't know any better. Fine on a low gain practice amp but doing that on a Spider is just going to mean you end up as a dreadful guitarist.

That went off in a massive tangent, for the sake of having something readable in here I'll just say that I'm awesome and you should listen to me.
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#35
Quote by timi_hendrix
I started out on a generic SS amp with pretty dull overdrive. Then I bought a cheap zoom multi-fx pedal.


I started out the same way and recommend it... By buying the multi effects i singled out ever pedal i didnt want so i didnt go out spending a ton on stuff that would just sit there. Then i got into tube amps and im working my way up the chain from there..
#36
Quote by IbanezPsycho
I started out the same way and recommend it... By buying the multi effects i singled out ever pedal i didnt want so i didnt go out spending a ton on stuff that would just sit there. Then i got into tube amps and im working my way up the chain from there..




It's worth mentioning that I bought the multi-fx after a year of playing, I think if I'd have bought it at the start I'd have ended up being a lot sloppier due to the nature of cheap multi-fx and their "Everything on 11!" presets.
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#37
Quote by timi_hendrix


It's worth mentioning that I bought the multi-fx after a year of playing, I think if I'd have bought it at the start I'd have ended up being a lot sloppier due to the nature of cheap multi-fx and their "Everything on 11!" presets.


Yup i should have waited a little longer myself. I waited a few months and got it, due to this I found myself spending more time with tweaks and patches then actually playing. Same issue with the VK, but now that i have my Ultra i just sit down turn it on and play and im getting alot better and more comfortable everyday.. Less is more when your learning, its really easy to get distracted...
#38
Quote by garrettanda
i dont understand why poeple just dont et a ****ty practice amp when they first start and get a decent distortion pedal...

you could get really good sounds out of it with a good dist pedal

and you can use the pedal with other amps to get your "sound"


My guitar amp broke, and I've been playing through a bass amps with pedals, and it sounds great, I'm buying an amp though.
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#39
Quote by Mike!
Here's an example of why the MG sounds decent if you dial it in well:
Clicky

There was nothing special at all about that tone, I thought it sounded pretty crappy honestly. I can get a much better tone out of my TonePort which cost 1/5 of that.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#40
Quote by MatrixClaw
There was nothing special at all about that tone, I thought it sounded pretty crappy honestly. I can get a much better tone out of my TonePort which cost 1/5 of that.

I agree...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT8sJn_GlHU

Sounds a lot better IMO.
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