#1
F C G D A E B

Sharps to the left, and flats to the right. So if we know D has two sharps, then we look at the line here. F# and C# are the sharps in the key of D.


I was reading through the theory lesson on this website, and i cant seem to understand how this works.

how do you arrive at the conclusion that the D major scale as F# and C# in it?

thanks for any help
#2
On the CoF, the notes go C G D as you move clickwise from the top. D is the key with 2 sharps (since is is "two keys" after C). You take your chart and sharpen the first two notes.

As an exercise, please tell me which notes are sharp in B major.

Edit: Prime.
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Jul 1, 2008,
#3
huh i never knew all that mumbo jumbo, i always just used it when i was writing and got stuck for notes haha
#4
Quote by F'ingguitarnoob
huh i never knew all that mumbo jumbo, i always just used it when i was writing and got stuck for notes haha
Useful post...

*Reported* for spam.
#5
F C G D A would be sharp in B major?

that was using the co5 if my thoery book, for some reason the c05 in the toery column in your signiture has the notes going the opposite way around?
#6
Quote by griffRG7321
F C G D A would be sharp in B major?
Yes.

Try it with flat keys. Which notes are flat in Eb major?

Bonus Question: Which notes are flat in G minor?

Quote by griffRG7321
that was using the co5 if my thoery book, for some reason the c05 in the toery column in your signiture has the notes going the opposite way around?
The CoF in my sig is backwards and wrong. I'm in the process of fixing it.
#7
Well, according to tetrachords, the next scale (counting from the natural one, aka C major) is G. Now, in Cmaj the distance between F and G is a whole step, yet, for G to be major the distance between F and G has to be half-step (according to WWhWWh), so F is sharpened (can't sharpen G since it is the root of the scale). This happens with all major scales with sharps, the 7th degree is sharpened (in flats the one flattened is the 4th).
Now, using tetrachords again, the next major scale counting from Gmaj is Dmaj (up a fifth), and using the 7th thing, the alteration is the 7th degree, aka C. But, since tetrachords means the last four notes of the G scale remain as the first four of the next one (Dmaj), then the F#also has to be in Dmaj, meaning the alterations in D are C# and F#.
The F C G D A E B method comes from this apparently, because since the scales go up in fifths, and the alterations are done to the 7th degree of each scale, the alterations also go up in fifths, and is more useful to use (along with CoF, which simplifies tetrachords in the chart by just making the scales go up a fifth or down a fifth (or fourth of the previous scale, etc)) than this whole method I used...

I don't know if I explained it correctly, so ask....
#8
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Yes.

Try it with flat keys. Which notes are flat in Eb major?

Bonus Question: Which notes are flat in G minor?

The CoF in my sig is backwards and wrong. I'm in the process of fixing it.


Eb major would be Fb Cb Gb

and G minor would be Fb and Cb? i'm not quite sure with that, i took G minor as the relative minor of Bb major.

you've really been a great help thanks
#9
Quote by griffRG7321
i took G minor as the relative minor of Bb major.
This is correct, but I'm afraid the rest is wrong.

The order of flats is B E A D G C F. With this information, please answer the question again.

Also, what are the sharp notes in C# minor?


Edit: Prime (WTF? F and B aren't even next to each other on the keyboard!)
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Jul 1, 2008,
#10
D is the key with 2 sharps (since is is "two keys" after C)

The order of flats is B E A D G C F.

Fixed
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#11
Quote by bangoodcharlote
This is correct, but I'm afraid the rest is wrong.

The order of flats is B E A D G C F. With this information, please answer the question again.

Also, what are the sharp notes in C# minor?


Eb major would be Bb Eb Ab

C# minor =relative minor of E major so it would be F# C# G# and D#

..hopefully

is there another way to work out the minors apart from knowing the major scale it is relative to?
#12
I have a question, which method is more useful:the Circle of Fifths, or the other one (taking the last alteration in the key signature and taking it up one degree to find the degree of the scale which has sharp alterations, etc, can't remember the name)?
#13
Quote by griffRG7321
is there another way to work out the minors apart from knowing the major scale it is relative to?
You could just memorize the notes in the common minor scales. That happens when you play a lot anyway.

You're correct on the key signatures, but where's Gm?
#14
Quote by bangoodcharlote
You could just memorize the notes in the common minor scales. That happens when you play a lot anyway.

You're correct on the key signatures, but where's Gm?


sorry here it is

Bb Eb

thanks for all the help

you should be a moderator
#15
Quote by bangoodcharlote


The CoF in my sig is backwards and wrong. I'm in the process of fixing it.


Isn't it just the circle of 4ths? which would still be CoF...
#16
Quote by Stolen Identity
Isn't it just the circle of 4ths? which would still be CoF...
Yes, "fifths" and "fourths" both start with the same letter.

Writing the CoF backwards is stupid because everyone else in the world learns that sharps are in the clockwise direction. The whole idea of having these standardized conventions is that they're standard.
#18
If I may help at all, I'm still learning some of this stuff, and I write a lot of it down. I remember I was writing out the major keys, starting with C, and then I would take the fifth and write out its major scale.

I II III IV V VI VII
C D E F G A B
G A B C D E F#
D E F#G A B C#

I remember after I did it the first time, I said to myself "The circle of fifths, it's quite obviously a square..."

Nonetheless, I learned a great deal from it.