#1
Would a Blackface amp have better tone and reliability than a Silverface? Would guitars made by CBS be not as good?
Quote by chip46
"I'm discontinuing production on the Timmy now as well. It might come back into production at some point down the road, but probably not because people will just clone it anyway cause they're stupid jerk face doo doo heads. -Paul C."
#2
i'm not super knowledgeable on this, but I believe Blackface Fender amps are like THE definitive fender amp, and will sound better than the silverface. However, you can modify the silverface circuit to replicate the blackface, have it sound similar, if not the same, and save some money. Guitar Player had the schematics for the mod in this past issue (the Al Di Meola mod).

CBS Fenders are the ones from the 70s with the HUGE headstocks, right? I love their looks, and a lot of pros use/record with them, although I did hear that in the latter part of CBS's owership, they tried to change the strat design a lot (electronics, woods, construction [?]), with mixed results. IMO, CBS strats are sick. However, I'm not sure many (if any at all) had any more that 21 frets, in case that makes a difference to you.
#3
I just want to know if it would have a better surf and blues tone than a Blackface reissue.
Quote by chip46
"I'm discontinuing production on the Timmy now as well. It might come back into production at some point down the road, but probably not because people will just clone it anyway cause they're stupid jerk face doo doo heads. -Paul C."
#5
late 60's Silverfaces are identical to their Blackface counterpart, they started using the Silver face plate with the BF circuit.

However, pass '76 or so they went downhill, creating these ultra linear circuits to keep the amps from breaking up, adding a master volume and just screwing it up. They dont sound very good idea, stick with pre '75/'76 Silverfaces.

Not so much to their smaller amps though, but the Bassman (50, 70, 100) Twin Reverb, and Super Reverb really got messed with.
Ibanez AFS75/Fender Strat Plus > Fulltone Deja' Vibe > Keeley TS808 MOD+ > Fulltone OCD > VanAmps SoleMate > Metro JTM45
#6
Quote by The Real Ming
What Fender amp are we talking about?


Twin reverb.
Quote by chip46
"I'm discontinuing production on the Timmy now as well. It might come back into production at some point down the road, but probably not because people will just clone it anyway cause they're stupid jerk face doo doo heads. -Paul C."
#7
If you can find an early silverface, go for it. You'll save some cash that way.
But, blackface super reverbs (the one i've had the most experience with) rock.
Call me Wes.
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#8
If I bid on a Silverface, igotabcrich32, could you advise me on it?
Quote by chip46
"I'm discontinuing production on the Timmy now as well. It might come back into production at some point down the road, but probably not because people will just clone it anyway cause they're stupid jerk face doo doo heads. -Paul C."
#9
Quote by lespaul#1
If I bid on a Silverface, igotabcrich32, could you advise me on it?


I'm not the most knowlegable guy on the matter, but i can stray you away from the bad ones.
Ibanez AFS75/Fender Strat Plus > Fulltone Deja' Vibe > Keeley TS808 MOD+ > Fulltone OCD > VanAmps SoleMate > Metro JTM45
#10
Quote by lespaul#1
If I bid on a Silverface, igotabcrich32, could you advise me on it?


If it has a master volume, stay away from it. That's an easy to follow first rule.
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#11
Quote by igotabcrich32
late 60's Silverfaces are identical to their Blackface counterpart, they started using the Silver face plate with the BF circuit.

However, pass '76 or so they went downhill, creating these ultra linear circuits to keep the amps from breaking up, adding a master volume and just screwing it up. They dont sound very good idea, stick with pre '75/'76 Silverfaces.

Not so much to their smaller amps though, but the Bassman (50, 70, 100) Twin Reverb, and Super Reverb really got messed with.

Yeah, if I had known this a long time ago, I would have NEVER sold my '68 Bassman 50 watt head and cab. The first year of Silverface and all Blackface tone! I kick myself periodically ever since.
#12
i say if its affordable, buy it. i guarantee in a few years Silver faces will be really really sought after.
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#13
Quote by slatsmania
If it has a master volume, stay away from it. That's an easy to follow first rule.

Listen to slats.
he knows everything (I'm not kidding...)
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#14
Quote by slatsmania
If it has a master volume, stay away from it. That's an easy to follow first rule.

May I know your thought process behind that statement? I'm not questioning it but I want to know because, if I can be convinced, it would likely help me feel better about buying my J-20 instead of an amp with a master volume.

Thank you in advance for your insight.
#15
its not that Master Volume amps in general are bad, its that during the bad days of fender they started putting master volumes on them. the MV didnt make them bad, its just something they had when they were bad.
Quote by BryanChampine
It was like a orgasm in my ear.
Chea_man is the best.
#16
The master volume Twin Reverbs were the low point of the CBS Fender series. Prior to them, they had more of a Blackface type circuit. The Twin is the amp that probably got screwed around with the most. That and the Bassman. CBS made both in higher wattage sizes, and they all fail tone-wise, too.

Good Twin:


Bad Twin:

(notice the offset single knob to the right? That's the master)
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#17
So my Ampeg J-20, which I have been told is largely based on a 60's Fender Deluxe circuit, would be more like a Blackface than like a less desirable amp design? If so, I'm happier with my amp than I already was!

So, Slats, when you say stay away from the amps with master volumes, are you specifically referring to Fender or do you follow that rule of thumb for any amp?
Last edited by carpepax at Jul 3, 2008,
#18
Quote by carpepax
So my Ampeg J-20, which I have been told is largely based on a 60's Fender Deluxe circuit, would be more like a Blackface than like a less desirable amp design? If so, I'm happier with my amp than I already was!

So, Slats, when you say stay away from the amps with master volumes, are you specifically referring to Fender or do you follow that rule of thumb for any amp?


Your Ampeg is a great amp.

And yeah, I'm specifically talking about the silverface Fender Twin Reverb in regards to the master volume. There are some great master volume circuits out there, and on larger amps it's generally a necessity. On the sf Fender Twins, though, it's a warning sign to stay away.
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#19
^However the Twin Reverb II by Paul Rivera also had a master volume, but they are from what I hear great amps!

(It is not an SF however, trust Slats! SF with master volumes are NONO)
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#20
Quote by slatsmania
Your Ampeg is a great amp.

And yeah, I'm specifically talking about the silverface Fender Twin Reverb in regards to the master volume. There are some great master volume circuits out there, and on larger amps it's generally a necessity. On the sf Fender Twins, though, it's a warning sign to stay away.

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't learn until within the last year that my old Bassman was so great. Another "one that got away." Glad to know I made a good choice in buying the Ampeg. It's redemption for my past ignorance.
#21
I guess I'll stick with a Super Reverb Reissue.
Quote by chip46
"I'm discontinuing production on the Timmy now as well. It might come back into production at some point down the road, but probably not because people will just clone it anyway cause they're stupid jerk face doo doo heads. -Paul C."
#22
Quote by slatsmania
The master volume Twin Reverbs were the low point of the CBS Fender series. Prior to them, they had more of a Blackface type circuit. The Twin is the amp that probably got screwed around with the most. That and the Bassman. CBS made both in higher wattage sizes, and they all fail tone-wise, too.

Good Twin:


Bad Twin:

(notice the offset single knob to the right? That's the master)

I dunno, I have a friend who has an MV model, and it sounds beautiful with my Tele and his Strat.
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#23
The only reason I was considering a Silverface was for the master knob.
Quote by chip46
"I'm discontinuing production on the Timmy now as well. It might come back into production at some point down the road, but probably not because people will just clone it anyway cause they're stupid jerk face doo doo heads. -Paul C."
#24
The only reason I was considering a Silverface was for the Master knob, I want to crank it, without a stadium sized room. Would taking tubes out make it quieter without messing up my tone?
Quote by chip46
"I'm discontinuing production on the Timmy now as well. It might come back into production at some point down the road, but probably not because people will just clone it anyway cause they're stupid jerk face doo doo heads. -Paul C."