#1
1 3 5 b7 9 #11 right?

figured out the chord by myself but cant find a version of the chord online is this correct?


C9#11
 
|-----|-----|-----|--o--| D (9)
|-----|--o--|-----|-----| G (3)
|-----|-----|--o--|-----| E (5)
|-----|--o--|-----|-----| Bb (b7)
|-----|-----|--o--|-----| F# (#11?)
|-----|--o--|-----|-----| C (1)
  VII



now my question is:
does the F# on the a string still function as the #11 even though it is not an octave about the root or would it just be a #4th?
Last edited by Don't Read This at Jul 5, 2008,
#3
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Once you play a seventh, you refer to the extension by 9, 11, or 13, not 2, 4, or 6.

yes but you only refer to them as 9 11 or 13th's once they are an octave above the root right? in C, F would be the fourth but if F is played an octave higher than the root it would be the 11 right?

so since the F in the chord i wrote isnt an octave above the root is it still considered a #11th?
#4
Quote by Don't Read This
so since the F in the chord i wrote isnt an octave above the root is it still considered a #11th?
Yes.


Once you play a seventh, you refer to the extension by 9, 11, or 13, not 2, 4, or 6.
#6
Quote by Don't Read This
so it doesnt matter what octave its in?


Either way is fine, but like bandgoodwhatever said you refer to them as 9th, 11th etc.
#7
No.


Once you play a seventh, you refer to the extension by 9, 11, or 13, not 2, 4, or 6, nor 16, 18, or 20.


Quote by TroM
Either way is fine, but like bandgoodwhatever said you refer to them as 9th, 11th etc.
There are not multiple ways to write the chord. If you call that chord #4 you are wrong.


And I don't think it's unreasonable for you to take your mouse over to my username and hit ctrl-C so you can actually write it correctly is too much for me to ask, do you?
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Jul 5, 2008,
#8
That's correct, but an easier way to play it would be:

EADGBE
X34330
XCF#BbDE

Try that one.
'89 MIJ Fender Strat
Rivera S-120
'60s PEPCO Model 211 5w head
'60s Paul (Pepco) 1x12 tube amp
'60s Harmony H303a 1x10 tube amp
#9
Quote by theacousticpunk
That's correct, but an easier way to play it would be:

EADGBE
X34330
XCF#BbDE

Try that one.
The only problem with that is that the chord is not moveable.
#10
Movable? Okay:
X32332
XCEBbDF#
'89 MIJ Fender Strat
Rivera S-120
'60s PEPCO Model 211 5w head
'60s Paul (Pepco) 1x12 tube amp
'60s Harmony H303a 1x10 tube amp
#11
Quote by Don't Read This
1 3 5 b7 9 #11 right?

figured out the chord by myself but cant find a version of the chord online is this correct?


C9#11

|-----|-----|-----|--o--| D (9)
|-----|--o--|-----|-----| G (3)
|-----|-----|--o--|-----| E (5)
|-----|--o--|-----|-----| Bb (b7)
|-----|-----|--o--|-----| F# (#11?)
|-----|--o--|-----|-----| C (1)
VII



now my question is:
does the F# on the a string still function as the #11 even though it is not an octave about the root or would it just be a #4th?
Damn, what a hard chord. BTW, E is the thid of a cmajor chord and G is the fifth, not the other way around. But it looks like a harmless mistake.

If I was given this chord, I would omit the 9th and the fifth and play something like this:


C#11
|-----|-----|-----|-----| 
|--0--|-----|-----|-----| F# (#11th)
|-----|-----|--o--|-----| E (3)
|-----|--o--|-----|-----| Bb (b7)
|-----|-----|-----|-----| 
|-----|--o--|-----|-----| C (1)
  VII

or this, if I felt I was up for it.

C9#11
 
|--0--|-----|-----|-----| F# (#11)
|-----|--o--|-----|-----| D (9)
|-----|--0--|-----|-----| Bb (b7)
|--0--|-----|-----|-----| E (3)
|-----|--0--|-----|-----| C (1)
|-----|-----|-----|-----| 
  II
But this voicing is ridiculously hard, especially if your playing it past the fifth fret.
#12
To demonofthenight: You can't omit the 9th, because it is a defining tone, hense why it is in the chord's name. If it was just C11, then you would be able to. But since it's C9#11 you must include it. Oh, and I beat you to the second chord.
'89 MIJ Fender Strat
Rivera S-120
'60s PEPCO Model 211 5w head
'60s Paul (Pepco) 1x12 tube amp
'60s Harmony H303a 1x10 tube amp
#13
Quote by theacousticpunk
To demonofthenight: You can't omit the 9th, because it is a defining tone, hense why it is in the chord's name. If it was just C11, then you would be able to. But since it's C9#11 you must include it. Oh, and I beat you to the second chord.
Um... no.

The only chords you dont omit are the root, the third, the seventh and the last note of the chord. Calling that chord a C9#11 is incorrect. It's a C#11. With X11 (or #11 or b11) and X13 (or #11, or b11) chords, you should add the 9 to the 11 chord to your discretion, and the 11 and 9 to the 13 chord to your discretion.

Trust me, if we werent aloud to omit 9'th notes and 11th notes, jazz guitarist's would be in strife.
#15
Quote by demonofthenight
Calling that chord a C9#11 is incorrect. It's a C#11.


Sorry if I've misunderstood here, but are you saying that to name C - E - G - Bb - D - F# as C9#11 is incorrect and it should be called C#11?
#16
Chord naming conventions unfortunately aren't a definite art. C#11 is wrong because that would imply that you are playing a chord with a C# root to the eleventh, which is not what you want. C9#11 is correct and implies that the 9 and #11 are important and should not be omitted. C9(#11) is correct and implies that the #11 may be ommitted as it is an extension. C11 is correct and under most naming conventions implies a #11 EVEN THOUGH the #11 is not written. When playing jazz it is often correct to assume that if there is an eleven, it is sharped, due to the fact that the natural eleven is dissonant with the seventh in places where that disonnance does not belong and consonant with the seventh in places where it should be dissonant (major and dominant chords, respectively).
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#17
Traditionally, a #11 chord would include a 9 in it as well. But due to the fact that alot of people like to omit notes, in an #11 chord some of the common notes to omit are the 5th and the 9th.

A proper, complete, #11 chord will be C - E - G - Bb - D - F#. But because I suck at jazz guitar I would play C - E - Bb - F#
Quote by Johnljones7443
Sorry if I've misunderstood here, but are you saying that to name C - E - G - Bb - D - F# as C9#11 is incorrect and it should be called C#11?
You saying I'm wrong? I've never seen a chord written as a X9#11. Maybe an X9add#11, maybe even a X#11/9, but never an X9#11.

In any 11th chord, the ninth should naturally be there anyway.
#18
Quote by demonofthenight
Um... no.

The only chords you dont omit are the root, the third, the seventh and the last note of the chord. Calling that chord a C9#11 is incorrect. It's a C#11. With X11 (or #11 or b11) and X13 (or #11, or b11) chords, you should add the 9 to the 11 chord to your discretion, and the 11 and 9 to the 13 chord to your discretion.

Trust me, if we werent aloud to omit 9'th notes and 11th notes, jazz guitarist's would be in strife.


You can omit the root as well. In any chords, the only notes you NEED are the 3rd and the 7th.
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#19
Quote by 6DgOfInTb
You can omit the root as well. In any chords, the only notes you NEED are the 3rd and the 7th.
Yeah, alot of guys say that, but I dont like to. In my thinking, whats to stop a Cmajor7 chord becoming an Eminor when the roots omited?
#20
Context.

EDIT: Who's to say that a C major is not just an inverted Em6? They're technically the same thing out of context, although if given the notes in the order of C E and G, most would call it C major.
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Last edited by 6DgOfInTb at Jul 5, 2008,
#21
Quote by demonofthenight
You saying I'm wrong?


If the answer to my question in the last post is yes, then yes, I am.

C#11 would imply the notes C# - E# - (G#) - B - (D#) - F#. If you want to name C9#11 that way, what name would you give to the chord consisting of the notes above?

Calling it C#11 makes no sense what-so-ever, and I don't see why you have a problem with the name C9#11. That's what the chord is, a C9 with a #11.
#22
Quote by Johnljones7443
If the answer to my question in the last post is yes, then yes, I am.

C#11 would imply the notes C# - E# - (G#) - B - (D#) - F#. If you want to name C9#11 that way, what name would you give to the chord consisting of the notes above?

Calling it C#11 makes no sense what-so-ever, and I don't see why you have a problem with the name C9#11. That's what the chord is, a C9 with a #11.
Hmmm, you have a point there...
#23
Quote by Don't Read This
1 3 5 b7 9 #11 right?

figured out the chord by myself but cant find a version of the chord online is this correct?


C9#11

|-----|-----|-----|--o--| D (9)
|-----|--o--|-----|-----| G (3)
|-----|-----|--o--|-----| E (5)
|-----|--o--|-----|-----| Bb (b7)
|-----|-----|--o--|-----| F# (#11?)
|-----|--o--|-----|-----| C (1)
VII



now my question is:
does the F# on the a string still function as the #11 even though it is not an octave about the root or would it just be a #4th?


keep in mind that while technically a 9#11 chord is made up of: R 3 5 b7 9 #11, its not common to play all of the voices on the guitar.

try this voicing (3 b7 9 #11)

------2----------------------------------
------3----------------------------------
------3----------------------------------
------2----------------------------------
----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------


also you should realize whenever you see a #11 that its the same note as the b5. Because of this the natural 5 is often avoided in combination with the b5/#11 unless the player specifically wants that grind.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 5, 2008,
#24
Quote by GuitarMunky
keep in mind that while technically a 9#11 chord is made up of: R 3 5 b7 9 #11, its not common to play all of the voices on the guitar.

try this voicing (3 b7 9 #11)

------4----------------------------------
------3----------------------------------
------3----------------------------------
------2----------------------------------
----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------


also you should realize whenever you see a #11 that its the same note as the b5. Because of this the natural 5 is often avoided in combination with the b5/#11 unless the player specifically wants that grind.
If I'm not mistaken (which I probably am) but isnt that G# (fourth fret E string) actually an augmented fifth, not an augmented fourth?
#25
Quote by demonofthenight
If I'm not mistaken (which I probably am) but isnt that G# (fourth fret E string) actually an augmented fifth, not an augmented fourth?


actually your right I should have written:

-----2---------------------------------
-----3----------------------------------
-----3----------------------------------
-----2----------------------------------
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------

regardless of the typo, the point remains the same:

while technically a 9#11 chord is made up of: R 3 5 b7 9 #11, its not common to play all of the voices on the guitar.


also you should realize whenever you see a #11 that its the same note as the b5. Because of this the natural 5 is often avoided in combination with the b5/#11 unless the player specifically wants that grind.
shred is gaudy music
#26
Quote by GuitarMunky
also you should realize whenever you see a #11 that its the same note as the b5. Because of this the natural 5 is often avoided in combination with the b5/#11 unless the player specifically wants that grind.
I dont think the grind is that bad.
It doesnt really matter if you clash with the fifth anyway, it's not the kind of interval that minds. The reason it's commonly ommited is because it sounds so similar to the root, as in if you give a standard audience a note, and than play a fifth in harmony to it, they wont be able to tell that theres that much difference (at least not as much as something played in harmony with a third or a second).
You can make b9 intervals, in chords, with the 5th and it also wont matter than much. Tritones only sound goofy because of the tritone made with the root note of the chord, not the b9 interval with the fifth.
#27
Quote by demonofthenight
I dont think the grind is that bad.
It doesnt really matter if you clash with the fifth anyway, it's not the kind of interval that minds. The reason it's commonly ommited is because it sounds so similar to the root, as in if you give a standard audience a note, and than play a fifth in harmony to it, they wont be able to tell that theres that much difference (at least not as much as something played in harmony with a third or a second).
You can make b9 intervals, in chords, with the 5th and it also wont matter than much. Tritones only sound goofy because of the tritone made with the root note of the chord, not the b9 interval with the fifth.



I never said it was bad. I said it was often avoided (which it is). In my big band arrangement classes I was taught that the reason is due to the clash...... not due to it sounding similar to the root.
There are times that the natural 5 is included, and the reason its included is because the grind is desired.

to reiterate:

while technically a 9#11 chord is made up of: R 3 5 b7 9 #11, its not common to use all of the voices.


also you should realize whenever you see a #11 that its the same note as the b5. Because of this the natural 5 is often avoided in combination with the b5/#11 unless the player specifically wants that grind.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 5, 2008,
#28
FYI, this thread is so intense.
WHY IS EVERYONE IN THE PIT A FUCKING METALCORE KID
#29
Chord construction in western music is simply stacking thirds on top of each other. So a major chord is the root(I) the third (III) and the fifth (V). The third is obviously a third of the root, and the fifth is a third of the third. For a seventh chord, you add the b7 of the relative major scale, so a C7 chord would have the basic triad plus a b7 added (C E G Bb). A 9th chord has the 7th chord construction with an added 9th scale degree, which is equivalent to the 2nd. Now, a 9th chord and an add9 chord are different things. A 9th chord means that all the thirds from the root to the 9, including the 9 are present, where as a add9 chord just means that a 9th scale degree is added to whatever suffix is used. Ex. Cadd9 contains the notes C E G and D (D being the ninth).

Now, just as everything else in music, there are alterations to this, but that is the basis.

Keep it funky.
#30
Quote by demonofthenight
Calling that chord a C9#11 is incorrect. It's a C#11.

In addition to the point that John made, keep in mind that the "C#11" implies an eleventh chord with a root of C#, which is not at all what you're going for.
#31
Quote by :-D
In addition to the point that John made, keep in mind that the "C#11" implies an eleventh chord with a root of C#, which is not at all what you're going for.
Isnt that exactly what john said?