#1
Similar topics have probably already been posted...Here goes anyway
I've been playing electric for three years and the only thing that has increased is my age
For about the last two years I've been concentrating on classical stuff, mostly Vivaldi-Paganini arranged by Malmsteen, Gilbert etc. Problem is I think I counted my chickens before they hatched, thats to say I rushed into it without having the full solid basics. Result: stuck in a rut, making no progress in either independant playing or technique, playing pieces half arsedly no matter how much I work on them. Have I just lost two years or is there anyway I could fill in whats missing? Or more to the point, what might be missing, is it just a question of working on sweep or tapping exercices before lauching on an actual piece or is it better if I go right back down to the roots forgetting all I've done so far? Or maybe concentrate on another style? Speaking of which I'll add that in terms of improvisation I can know my scales better than I know my name and I can still do bog all with them, any advice in this area?

M'hah sorry, if anyone feels like beating up the tone deaf and the clueless I'm yer girl ><

Thanks, Christie
#2
I can know my scales better than I know my name and I can still do bog all with them


knowing scales does not a great improviser make, to do this, one must have feeling and soul
/Yoda\Splinter seminar
'08 Gretsch White Falcon
'98 Fender USA Deluxe Tele
'79 Greco Les Paul Standard
Airline Stratotone Crafter GAE8

A bunch of funky pedals

Handwired 50 Watt Plexi Lead Clone w/ Orange 4x12
#3
Just a nagging feeling that reading Blake in my room, scarring myself and snorting opium isn't going to unwind my fingers that much :p...anything more pragmatic?
#4
Music like that is a bit much to take in if you aren't 100% sure of what you're doing.
If you don't think your technique is that great yet, just try something simpler.
#5
The pieces I can play well enough; I think the main problem is more herm, weaning myself of of them to go towards something more assertive, to really get the technique down as opposed to using it sparingly
#6
Quote by druz15_UG
knowing scales does not a great improviser make, to do this, one must have a strong knowledge of the fretboard and the underlying harmony


Fixed. Feeling and soul have nothing to do with it.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#7
Quote by Archeo Avis
Fixed. Feeling and soul have nothing to do with it.



yeah they do. Maybe not for you though.

and please lets not debate whether or not notes have feelings...... artists do, and listeners do. Music is a medium.

Quote by druz15_UG
knowing scales does not a great improviser make, to do this, one must have feeling and soul
/Yoda\Splinter seminar


thats a good point.

Quote by ChristieC
Similar topics have probably already been posted...Here goes anyway
I've been playing electric for three years and the only thing that has increased is my age
For about the last two years I've been concentrating on classical stuff, mostly Vivaldi-Paganini arranged by Malmsteen, Gilbert etc. Problem is I think I counted my chickens before they hatched, thats to say I rushed into it without having the full solid basics. Result: stuck in a rut, making no progress in either independant playing or technique, playing pieces half arsedly no matter how much I work on them. Have I just lost two years or is there anyway I could fill in whats missing? Or more to the point, what might be missing, is it just a question of working on sweep or tapping exercices before lauching on an actual piece or is it better if I go right back down to the roots forgetting all I've done so far? Or maybe concentrate on another style? Speaking of which I'll add that in terms of improvisation I can know my scales better than I know my name and I can still do bog all with them, any advice in this area?

M'hah sorry, if anyone feels like beating up the tone deaf and the clueless I'm yer girl ><

Thanks, Christie


Try not worrying about it. Just find something that inspires you to play, and learn it.... enjoy it. If you pick something thats too hard, just find something else. Don't play to be good..... play to enjoy. If you enjoy playing, chances are that other people will dig listening to you. Keep doing that and the likely result is you getting better.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 10, 2008,
#8
Truth be told i'm a huge fan of jumpin right in and attacking the song i want to play.You will get great examples of things to practice this way and will also be working toward something real. What i mean is people dont want to listen to exsercises they want to hear songs. Be sure to stop and isolate the problems of the song and use those hard sections to build your technique.
#9
Quote by GuitarMunky
yeah they do. Maybe not for you though.

and please lets not debate whether or not notes have feelings...... artists do, and listeners do. Music is a medium.


thats a good point.


Try not worrying about it. Just find something that inspires you to play, and learn it.... enjoy it. If you pick something thats too hard, just find something else. Don't play to be good..... play to enjoy. If you enjoy playing, chances are that other people will dig listening to you. Keep doing that and the likely result is you getting better.



+1

Good music is all about feeling. Hence why Guitar Pro and Powertab have yet to move anyone with their performances.
#10
Hence why Guitar Pro and Powertab have yet to move anyone with their performances.


You know this how? Maybe you just haven't downloaded any interesting music.
Feeling is not an inherent property of music, it's something the listener subjectively attributes to it (or doesn't, which doesn't mean that it isn't still enjoyable)
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Jul 10, 2008,
#11
Quote by Archeo Avis
You know this how? Maybe you just haven't downloaded any interesting music.
Feeling is not an inherent property of music, it's something the listener subjectively attributes to it (or doesn't, which doesn't mean that it isn't still enjoyable)


why do you always insist that the artist has nothing to do with it? While you personally may not express yourself emotionally through music, many musicians do.

Music is a medium through which emotions can be expressed and perceived. Saying "feeling is not an inherent property of music" is like saying " feeling is not an inherent property of language". Your basing that on the obvious fact that inanimate objects such as letters or sound waves don't "contain" emotions..... well no SH*T, no one thinks that they do. What people do realize though, and that you seem to deny is that music, like language is a medium through which artists can express themselves emotionally.

For me, and im sure many others, that communicative aspect of music is incredibly important. I don't think you help anyone by downplaying it or denying it exists altogether.
shred is gaudy music
#12
Quote by Archeo Avis
You know this how? Maybe you just haven't downloaded any interesting music.
Feeling is not an inherent property of music, it's something the listener subjectively attributes to it (or doesn't, which doesn't mean that it isn't still enjoyable)
When a writer writes something, the ink on a piece of paper is worthless, but it still has meaning. Obviously soundwaves in and of themselves do not have any sort of emotion, but you can still play with emotion. It is definitely subjective though.

That said, IMO feeling is not alone what makes a good musician. It's about knowing what you want to do and how to do it. Studying theory and not just knowing scale patterns(I'm making a bit of an assumption here, how are you with your theory in general?) will take you a long way.
#13
Quote by grampastumpy
When a writer writes something, the ink on a piece of paper is worthless, but it still has meaning. Obviously soundwaves in and of themselves do not have any sort of emotion, but you can still play with emotion. It is definitely subjective though.

That said, IMO feeling is not alone what makes a good musician. It's about knowing what you want to do and how to do it. Studying theory and not just knowing scale patterns(I'm making a bit of an assumption here, how are you with your theory in general?) will take you a long way.


keep in mind this isn't a theory vs emotion debate.... at least Id like to try and prevent it from going there because its really a ridiculous argument. I mean knowledge is always good and expression is a major aspect of art (if not THE major aspect). Why the heck would we want to argue one over the other?

Im only in this cause I absolutely hate seeing the "emotion is not an inherent property of music" argument. its such a useless point of view. It gets brought up every time someone mentions playing with feel as if those people think that sound waves are alive, with little brains in them and feel emotion.
Someone who appreciates "feeling" in playing is someone who understands the incredibly obvious communicative nature of art.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 10, 2008,
#14
Quote by GuitarMunky
keep in mind this isn't a theory vs emotion debate.... at least Id like to try and prevent it from going there because its really a ridiculous argument. I mean knowledge is always good and expression is a major aspect of art (if not THE major aspect). Why the heck would we want to argue one over the other?

Im only in this cause I absolutely hate seeing the "emotion is not an inherent property of music" argument. its such a useless point of view. It gets brought up every time someone mentions playing with feel as if those people think that sounds waves have little brains in them and feel emotion just because they are hip to the obvious communicative nature of art.
lol, I'm not arguing against you. I'm just saying just feeling is not enough. For people who don't have a natural sense of how music works, theory and ear training is a great way to take what you want to do and do it.
#15
Quote by grampastumpy
lol, I'm not arguing against you. I'm just saying just feeling is not enough. For people who don't have a natural sense of how music works, theory and ear training is a great way to take what you want to do and do it.


Well its not enough ............in the same way that if you have an idea in your head its not enough to just think it....you actually have to open your mouth and say words n stuff to communicate that idea. ( or communicate it somehow through some medium which ofcourse may involve having a degree of skill in the medium)

That being said. Without the idea to be communicated in the 1st place, the skills are irrelevant.
shred is gaudy music
#16
Quote by GuitarMunky
Well its not enough ............in the same way that if you have an idea in your head its not enough to just think it....you actually have to open your mouth and say words n stuff to communicate that idea. ( or communicate it somehow through some medium which ofcourse may involve having a degree of skill in the medium)

That being said. Without the idea to be communicated in the 1st place, the skills are irrelevant.
Yup. It's just that every once in a while, someone will say "Nah throw away them scales, all ya need is feeling!"
#17
Quote by GuitarMunky
Im only in this cause I absolutely hate seeing the "emotion is not an inherent property of music" argument. its such a useless point of view. It gets brought up every time someone mentions playing with feel as if those people think that sound waves are alive, with little brains in them and feel emotion.


When someone makes the statement "knowing scales does not a great improviser make, to do this, one must have feeling and soul", that is essentially what they are saying, yes. Music does not magically transmit emotion, and your mental state when writing the music is irrelevant as far as the listener is concerned. Emotion can influence your playing to the extent that it alters your mental state, but it doesn't guarantee any specific response in the listener. Hendrix presumably felt every note he played on his instrument, but it doesn't stop me from finding his music boring and cold.

Emotion is irrelevant. A good musician is someone who knows what he wants his music to sound like, and knows how to make it sound that way.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#18
Quote by Archeo Avis
A good musician is someone who knows what he wants his music to sound like, and knows how to make it sound that way.
Exactly. I wouldn't go as far to say emotion is irrelevant, but you definitely can't use it to measure a musician's ability.
#19
Quote by Archeo Avis

Emotion is irrelevant. A good musician is someone who knows what he wants his music to sound like, and knows how to make it sound that way.


ANYTHING that an artist expresses IS relevant, including emotion.

What a good musician is, is very subjective. To me a good musician is a person that has the ability to make "good" music.


Anyway the persons post that you "fixed" was a perfectly valid point of view. Your "fix" was just your opinion, which is just as valid, but in no way an actual "fix".

Quote by Archeo Avis
When someone makes the statement "knowing scales does not a great improviser make, to do this, one must have feeling and soul", that is essentially what they are saying, yes.


NO that is not what they are saying. I doubt very much that Druz15 thinks that notes are alive and have emotions. Thats a pretty far out implication there. Most people are smarter than that, and you should be smart enough to know it.


To the TS:


try learning some songs/riffs/solos/licks........MUSIC.

don't go for the hardest, most impressive things 1st. Work on something thats both realistic, and appealing to you. Continue to study scales/theory...ect, but try to keep a healthy balance, and most importantly....... just enjoy playing. It takes time.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 10, 2008,
#20
Quote by Archeo Avis
When someone makes the statement "knowing scales does not a great improviser make, to do this, one must have feeling and soul", that is essentially what they are saying, yes. Music does not magically transmit emotion, and your mental state when writing the music is irrelevant as far as the listener is concerned. Emotion can influence your playing to the extent that it alters your mental state, but it doesn't guarantee any specific response in the listener. Hendrix presumably felt every note he played on his instrument, but it doesn't stop me from finding his music boring and cold.

Emotion is irrelevant. A good musician is someone who knows what he wants his music to sound like, and knows how to make it sound that way.



Hence why you seem to live on a messageboard and no one has heard of you.
#21
Quote by Archeo Avis
You know this how? Maybe you just haven't downloaded any interesting music.
Feeling is not an inherent property of music, it's something the listener subjectively attributes to it (or doesn't, which doesn't mean that it isn't still enjoyable)


You sound really interesting.

Name me the last global hit powertab had.

You seem to have completely missed the point of music.

Music is a language. Language is both spoken, written and interpreted communication.

Someone says "hello" there is infliction in the voice , there are facial movements and body language, each of these communicate. These can all be transferred into musical performance. You seem to have missed that vital part of music and performance.
Don't worry you aren't the first person to have completely missed the point of being a musician.
#22
Quote by RichieJovie
You seem to have completely missed the point of music.

Music is a language. Language is both spoken, written and interpreted communication.

Someone says "hello" there is infliction in the voice , there are facial movements and body language, each of these communicate. These can all be transferred into musical performance.


This contradicts what I said how?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#23
Quote by Archeo Avis
This contradicts what I said how?

I'm not going argue with you here.
Everytime I take a contrary opinion to someone round the Mods seem to ban me as apparently disagreeing with someone is flaming( whatever flaming is?)
I'm going to agree to disagree and suggest you have missed the entire point of music.
Good day to you.
#24
Quote by RichieJovie
I'm not going argue with you here.
Everytime I take a contrary opinion to someone round the Mods seem to ban me as apparently disagreeing with someone is flaming( whatever flaming is?)


Disagreeing would require you to state exactly what your problem is with the opponents position, and then defend your own. You've done nothing but personally attack anyone that disagrees with you. You are flaming, and you need to shut up.

Also, straw man.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#25
Quote by Archeo Avis
Disagreeing would require you to state exactly what your problem is with the opponents position, and then defend your own. You've done nothing but personally attack anyone that disagrees with you. You are flaming, and you need to shut up.

Also, straw man.


Present some evidence.
#26
Quote by RichieJovie
Present some evidence.


Evidence of what? I explained my argument clearly. You just went off on some completely unrelated tangent that had nothing to do what I said.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#27
Quote by Archeo Avis
Evidence of what? I explained my argument clearly. You just went off on some completely unrelated tangent that had nothing to do what I said.



So what is the debate exactly?

is it that you think artists cannot express themselves through a medium, because the medium itself doesn't "contain" expression ?
shred is gaudy music
#28
Quote by GuitarMunky
So what is the debate exactly?

is it that you think artists cannot express themselves through a medium


Show me where I said anything even remotely similar to that.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#29
Quote by Archeo Avis
Show me where I said anything even remotely similar to that.



You said "music is not an inherent property of music".... in rebuttle to someone talking about expressing themselves on the guitar. You also implied that the communicative aspect of art is only in the mind of the audience.


So what is your point in saying things like that?
shred is gaudy music
#30
Who'd have thunk it, you're all making me feel like Socrates!
Please, no need for catfights, especially if considering that music is what constitutes the Universal Consciousness, or the Soul, or the World of Ideas, or Herman Li's bank account...
I'm not entirely sure who said this, but I choose to play classical, especially baroque, not to make an impression, but because its what comes feels most natural to me and from a purely esthetic point of view is what is most easy on my ears when visiting the white widow. Added bonus; it does help speed a great deal. My particular problem seems to be that I can't exploit the pieces to their full capacity and can't seem to get onto anything different, so it just seems that's I'm dully repeating the skills of someone else. So I guess yeah, what is missing is the right feeling; but there's no denying the skill's on holiday too. So if anyone could give me a list of no brainer, purely technical exercices to really free my hands as opposed to bogging myself down with theoretical ideas (no reference to anyone here, its just one of my particular idiotic tendencies), I could finally get on to some actual real playing, as opposed to having to spread the little I have about on forums.

Merci d'avance!
#31
Quote by GuitarMunky
You said "music is not an inherent property of music".... in rebuttle to someone talking about expressing themselves on the guitar. You also implied that the communicative aspect of art is only in the mind of the audience.


So what is your point in saying things like that?


The topic was not expression, it was improvisation. I responded to the statement that to be good at improvisation you need "feeling and soul". This is ridiculous, for reason I've already explained.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#32
Quote by Archeo Avis
The topic was not expression, it was improvisation. I responded to the statement that to be good at improvisation you need "feeling and soul". This is ridiculous, for reason I've already explained.



its not ridiculous.

Playing with "feel' or "soul" is a matter of expression. The idea is completely relevant as well as valid.

While I think knowing scales/theory is important, the statement "knowing scales does not a great improviser make" is actually true.

I take his overall point to mean...... its not the scales, but the expression that matters. Agree or disagree its a valid opinion.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 11, 2008,
#33
Quote by GuitarMunky
its not ridiculous.

Playing with "feel' or "soul" is a matter of expression. The idea is completely relevant as well as valid.

While I think knowing scales/theory is important, the statement "knowing scales does not a great improviser make" is actually true.

I take his overall point to mean...... its not the scales, but the expression that matters. Agree or disagree its a valid opinion.


He said that the only way to be good at improvisation was to possess some subjective quality that isn't even communicated through the music in any real sense. This is wrong, and ridiculous. If he meant something different, he should have said something different.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.