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#1
Has anyone else ever noticed that it seems like there are almost 2 seperate, distinct waves of Pop-Punk?(leave emo out of the conversation)

EDIT: actually, there are sort of 3

Prelude: Pop-Influenced Punk bands(Ramones, Descendents, Adolescants)
Still really considered punk, but somewhat influenced by pop, or at least more so than by hardcore

1st Wave: Pop-Punk- usually a 3 piece band, has significant punk influences, all started in 90's
bands in this wave include Blink, Green Day, The Offspring, Sum 41, Alkaline Trio(sort of)

2nd Wave: Pop-Punk- usually a 4 or 5 piece band, not as much punk influence, influenced more by pop-punk bands of 90's, some influence from other genres(electronica, hardcore, reggae)
bands here, just as examples: Fall Out Boy, All Time Low, New Found Glory, We The Kings, more(i'm not really into this "Wave" as much

does anyone else see this?
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#2
I could be wrong, but weren't Green Day and Blink formed before the 90's? And wasn't hardcore after punk?
#4
yer i can see what you mean but you said leave emo out of it then you mentioned fall out boy
#6
bands like crimpshrine and screeching weasel pre-date your "first wave" by 5-10 years..

and most of the bands you mentioned aren't pop-punk, they're just pop or pop-rock

this thread fails.
#7
Quote by blackflag49
bands like crimpshrine and screeching weasel pre-date your "first wave" by 5-10 years..

and most of the bands you mentioned aren't pop-punk, they're just pop or pop-rock

this thread fails.


The almighty god of genre's has spoken!
#9
Quote by StonaLemons
The almighty god of genre's has spoken!
He's right. The Queers formed in the early 80's (I believe '82). The Buzzcocks formed in '76 and they are considered one of the earliest pop punk bands by many.
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#10
Your whole second wave is pop rock.

First wave of pop punk was stuff like the Descendents, Buzzcocks, etc.
The current "wave" would be bands like the Ergs, Daggermouth, None More Black (Maybe?), etc
Like-father, like-son rebels bloated on korn, eminems and bizkits. Lord hear our prayer take back your Amy Grant mosh-crews and your fair-weather politics
Last edited by JustMimes at Jul 10, 2008,
#11
Quote by blackflag49
bands like crimpshrine and screeching weasel pre-date your "first wave" by 5-10 years..

and most of the bands you mentioned aren't pop-punk, they're just pop or pop-rock

this thread fails.


Speaking the truth.

TS, UG genres aren't real genres, they're there to keep the metalheads and the tr00 p0nx happy.
#12
Quote by JustMimes
Your whole second wave is pop rock.

First wave of pop punk was stuff like the Descendents, Buzzcocks, etc.
The current "wave" would be bands like the Ergs, Daggermouth, None More Black (Maybe?), etc

i came to post this...but i wouldn't include Daggermouth and None More Black.
#13
Quote by DressingCold
i came to post this...but i wouldn't include Daggermouth and None More Black.


What other bands would you include? I'm interested in hearing more new bands in the vein of the Ergs anyway.
Like-father, like-son rebels bloated on korn, eminems and bizkits. Lord hear our prayer take back your Amy Grant mosh-crews and your fair-weather politics
#14
Quote by element4433
He's right. The Queers formed in the early 80's (I believe '82). The Buzzcocks formed in '76 and they are considered one of the earliest pop punk bands by many.


Im not going to argue with that, its just the sweeping statement that most of the bands mentioned aren't pop punk. I would say most of the bands are pop punk. I dont see the point in being so nit-picky with genres, and even worse is people seeming to think they are better than others because they claim to know the 'true genre' of bands?!
#15
Quote by StonaLemons
Im not going to argue with that, its just the sweeping statement that most of the bands mentioned aren't pop punk. I would say most of the bands are pop punk. I dont see the point in being so nit-picky with genres, and even worse is people seeming to think they are better than others because they claim to know the 'true genre' of bands?!


It's not being nitpicky if some of the people you mentioned have nothing in common with the actual genre
Like-father, like-son rebels bloated on korn, eminems and bizkits. Lord hear our prayer take back your Amy Grant mosh-crews and your fair-weather politics
#16
Quote by wshnationals
Has anyone else ever noticed that it seems like there are almost 2 seperate, distinct waves of Pop-Punk?(leave emo out of the conversation)

EDIT: actually, there are sort of 3

Prelude: Pop-Influenced Punk bands(Ramones, Descendents, Adolescants)
Still really considered punk, but somewhat influenced by pop, or at least more so than by hardcore

Since when are The Adolescents pop punk?
#17
I would argue that Punk was always sort of a pop movement.

The bands involved were just really bad at the whole being "marketable" thing.

But thats kind of beside the point I guess.
#18
Quote by JustMimes
It's not being nitpicky if some of the people you mentioned have nothing in common with the actual genre


Like fall out boy? One of their main influences were the decendants. They have other punk influences and pop-punk influences such as the offspring. Hence having plenty to do with the pop punk genre, and essentially putting them in the pop punk genre in my opinion.
#19
Quote by StonaLemons
Like fall out boy? One of their main influences were the decendants. They have other punk influences and pop-punk influences such as the offspring. Hence having plenty to do with the pop punk genre, and essentially putting them in the pop punk genre in my opinion.


I'm influenced by alot of bands. I happen to be highly influenced by Jimi Hendrix. Does that mean I play classic/psychadelic rock? No. i have nothing to to with the classic rock genre.
#20
Quote by StonaLemons
Like fall out boy? One of their main influences were the decendants. They have other punk influences and pop-punk influences such as the offspring. Hence having plenty to do with the pop punk genre, and essentially putting them in the pop punk genre in my opinion.
Modern Fall Out Boy couldn't be further from the Descendents.
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#21
well not as bad as the fourth wave of ska ha.
Quote by shakin'cakes
First of all, I enjoy deathcore for it's complexity and it's the only genre heavy enough for me



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#22
Quote by StonaLemons
Like fall out boy? One of their main influences were the decendants. They have other punk influences and pop-punk influences such as the offspring. Hence having plenty to do with the pop punk genre, and essentially putting them in the pop punk genre in my opinion.


Seriously? Fall Out Boy's first album is POSSIBLY arguable to have a descendents influenced sound... but everything that came afterwards bears (or is it bares? something that sounds like ****ing bears.) no resemblance to them. So.. I don't see how you can put them in the pop punk genre. Pete Wentz and Patrick Slump became friends because they were both Neurosis fans. What next? You're going to say they are sludge metal because they were influenced by Neurosis?

On a side note related to this post,


Your just a human being on this planet
Your just flesh and blood like all the rest
You'll get old and have a wrinkled ass
Humans are ses I want to be a bear
I want to **** in the woods
In my cave hunt my prey
Could be you, I want to have food
Burgers not berries

Chea. haha
Like-father, like-son rebels bloated on korn, eminems and bizkits. Lord hear our prayer take back your Amy Grant mosh-crews and your fair-weather politics
#23
Quote by blenk
yer i can see what you mean but you said leave emo out of it then you mentioned fall out boy


/facepalm

and big news? nope. there are many waves of many genres. It's how music evolves. not a huge deal there....
...Nothing you've ever...
...Planned on ever turned out...
...The way you planned...


...You're still disappointing them...
#24
wow, i see my thread started quite a controversy. another point, however:

If none of those "2nd wave bands" are actually pop-punk, then why do they take up a good amount of the threads in this forum?

and i sort of intentionally left out screeching weasel, the buzzcocks and such. i was mainly talking pop-punk in the POPULAR sense, rather than pop-influenced sense. As a generilization, if it weren't for blink and green day, pop-punk WOULD NOT be popular, or at least not as much so as today.
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#25
Quote by wshnationals
wow, i see my thread started quite a controversy. another point, however:

If none of those "2nd wave bands" are actually pop-punk, then why do they take up a good amount of the threads in this forum?

and i sort of intentionally left out screeching weasel, the buzzcocks and such. i was mainly talking pop-punk in the POPULAR sense, rather than pop-influenced sense. As a generilization, if it weren't for blink and green day, pop-punk WOULD NOT be popular, or at least not as much so as today.


People make threads about bands that aren't pop punk and emo in this forum because the terms have become bastardized. The fact that people consider bands like CIWWAF emo and bands like paramore pop punk constitutes a sad state of affairs.
Like-father, like-son rebels bloated on korn, eminems and bizkits. Lord hear our prayer take back your Amy Grant mosh-crews and your fair-weather politics
#26
So what if they've become bastardized? It happens. Learn to accept that and move on.

Hell, you dont see people going about whining about how the word 'gay' which used to just mean happy now basicly means homosexual.
#27
Quote by wshnationals
wow, i see my thread started quite a controversy. another point, however:

If none of those "2nd wave bands" are actually pop-punk, then why do they take up a good amount of the threads in this forum?
because this is (for the most part) a pop-rock forum..

but you can't say that, or change the name of the forum to more accurately describe the bands being discussed, lest some of the more sensitive members get their panties in a twist...
#28
Quote by StonaLemons
So what if they've become bastardized? It happens. Learn to accept that and move on.

Hell, you dont see people going about whining about how the word 'gay' which used to just mean happy now basicly means homosexual.


Ok, with that analogy, I completely agree. Gay doesn't mean homosexual but uninformed people think it does. Bands like Paramore, Fall Out Boy, and CIWWAF are not pop punk but uninformed people think they are.
Like-father, like-son rebels bloated on korn, eminems and bizkits. Lord hear our prayer take back your Amy Grant mosh-crews and your fair-weather politics
#29
gay does mean homosexual. it also means happy.

what the problem is is that people use gay as meaning stupid or bad.
which is just rude. I'm guilty of this also. *shrug*

and this is a pop rock/pop punk/emo/alternative/blah blah blah forum.
there really are no limits.
...Nothing you've ever...
...Planned on ever turned out...
...The way you planned...


...You're still disappointing them...
#30
Quote by Its_Rock77
gay does mean homosexual. it also means happy.

what the problem is is that people use gay as meaning stupid or bad.
which is just rude. I'm guilty of this also. *shrug*



Maybe a better comparison I could've used would've been fag. Since it means as slang a loose cigarrette in the UK and originally a bundle of sticks... though probably like a million other things too.
Like-father, like-son rebels bloated on korn, eminems and bizkits. Lord hear our prayer take back your Amy Grant mosh-crews and your fair-weather politics
#32
Quote by JustMimes
Ok, with that analogy, I completely agree. Gay doesn't mean homosexual but uninformed people think it does. Bands like Paramore, Fall Out Boy, and CIWWAF are not pop punk but uninformed people think they are.


Fall Out Boy and Paramore are Most Definetly pop-punk. They are both influenced by punk and pop. Therefore, they are POP-PUNK. CIWWAF is pop-punk as well IMO(it could be debated). There biggest influences are mostly Pop-Punk, so thats where it goes up in the air. However, if genre is based on sound(which it should be), then CIWWAF SHOULD be considered pop-punk, because really they sound like a whinier, more annoying version of many bands that are undisputably considered pop-punk

EDIT: If anyone disagrees with me, wikipedia it.
Arbor A410 Bass
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Excuse me sir, have you been thinking tonight?
#33
no. pop rock.

all of those. there are no punk elements to their songs.
...Nothing you've ever...
...Planned on ever turned out...
...The way you planned...


...You're still disappointing them...
#34
Quote by wshnationals
Fall Out Boy and Paramore are Most Definetly pop-punk. They are both influenced by punk and pop. Therefore, they are POP-PUNK. CIWWAF is pop-punk as well IMO(it could be debated). There biggest influences are mostly Pop-Punk, so thats where it goes up in the air. However, if genre is based on sound(which it should be), then CIWWAF SHOULD be considered pop-punk, because really they sound like a whinier, more annoying version of many bands that are undisputably considered pop-punk

EDIT: If anyone disagrees with me, wikipedia it.
Wikipedia is the best source of genre knowledge.
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#35
Elements of Punk Rock

Typical punk rock instrumentation includes one or two electric guitars, an electric bass, and a drum kit, along with vocals.

FOB- YES Paramore- YES

Punk rock songs tend to be shorter than those of other popular genres

FOB- On their first 2 albums, 1 song was longer than 4 minutes long. The average song is around 4 minutes long. In general, YES.
Paramore- On Paramore's 2 full length albums, they had 1 song that was 4 minutes long. All the others were less. YES


Most early punk rock songs retained a traditional rock 'n' roll verse-chorus form and 4/4 time signature.

FOB- The majority of the time, YES for both
Paramore- The majority of the time, YES

Punk rock vocals sometimes sound nasal

FOB- whiny is similar to nasally. Pete's voice is often nasally IMO. YES

Paramore- not really. NO

Complicated guitar solos are considered self-indulgent and unnecessary, although basic guitar breaks are common.

FOB- YES

Paramore- a few solos, but YES most of the time

Guitar parts tend to include highly distorted power chords or barre chords, creating a characteristic sound described by Christgau as a "buzzsaw drone"

FOB- mostly uses power chords. YES
Paramore- same ^ YES

Bass guitar lines are often uncomplicated; the quintessential approach is a relentless, repetitive "forced rhythm"

FOB- mostly. Pete has some interesting basslines, but usually not. YES
Paramore- sometimes. im not a huge paramore fan, so i cant really discuss too much N/A

Bassists often use a plectrum due to the rapid succession of notes, which makes fingerpicking impractical

FOB- YES
Paramore- YES

Drums typically sound heavy and dry, and often have a minimal set-up. Compared to other forms of rock, syncopation is much less the rule.

FOB- usually. YES
Paramore- sometimes

Punk rock lyrics are typically frank and confrontational; compared to other popular music genres, they frequently comment on social and political issues.

FOB- not really NO
Paramore- Sometimes N/A

There is also a characteristic strain of anti-sentimental depictions of relationships and sex

FOB- occasionally. ill go with YES
Paramore- very limitedly. Ill no with NO

However, many punk rock lyrics deal in more traditional rock 'n' roll themes of courtship, heartbreak, and hanging out; the approach ranges from the deadpan, aggressive simplicity of Ramones standards such as "I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend"[27] to the more unambiguously sincere style of many later pop punk groups.

FOB- Yes.
Paramore- YES

Over time, tattoos, piercings, and metal-studded and -spiked accessories became increasingly common elements of punk fashion among both musicians and fans.

FOB- YES
Paramore- YES

hmmm... no punk elements?
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#37
Quote by frd_marshll
you just desciped most bands who play any form of rock music


you can spell real well. but those were the specific elements of PUNK music. which brings up an important point: what is the difference between rock and punk? that brings up a more relative point: what is the difference between pop-punk and pop-rock? really, if a band has a trace of punk influence, shouldn't it be considered pop-punk rather than pop-rock? also, which do FOB and Paramore have more in common with? "Pop Punk" such as Green Day or Blink, or "Pop-Rock" such as Nickelback or Matchbox 20?
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Last edited by wshnationals at Jul 10, 2008,
#38
Quote by wshnationals
you can spell real well.


And you don't properly capitalize things.

Attacking someone's grammar or spelling is a lame tactic.

EDIT: I would also like to add that being in a band with two guitars in it or having tattooed fans, or a certain type of drum kit are all lame arguments as they apply to many genre's of music and are in fact very general.
Last edited by Iluvpowerchords at Jul 10, 2008,
#39
I'm not trying to sound elitist or superior in any way, but I have been listening to punk for almost four years. There are very few similarities between Fall Out Boy and Paramore, and punk, even Evening Out with Your Girlfriend era Fall Out Boy.

Exhibit A:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wmGiDfcTnc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEzhlFqtAJk

Exhibit B:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76JBKIlQJEI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUU85sOxZ78

Please point out similarities.
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#40
^^thank you and that is exactly what i ment

element dude i've never heard Richard hell & the voidiods
and that was a mistake because its really good stuff
Last edited by frd_marshll at Jul 10, 2008,
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