Poll: What sounds better live?
Poll Options
View poll results: What sounds better live?
Scooped Mids
17 20%
Boosted Mids
68 80%
Voters: 85.
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#1
I need to know if this really is an issue. My singer wants to scoop the mids on my amp because it sounds darker and meaner (which is true), and he thinks the tone I'm using sounds like crap. To be honest I'm playing a Dean CFH at Drop Db through a Soldano Avenger and a 2x15 Vader cab. Trust me, my tone is very good. Only issue is that I can't turn the amp up enough to start pushing the tubes. I only need it at 2, but it's "too loud".
I notice a huge drop in crunch at lower volumes and therefore they don't understand that a mid-boosted set up can sound downright evil when pushed a little bit more. My settings are: Pre-amp-6, Bass-7, Mids-8, Treble-7, Presense-4, Depth-5. With Master Vol adjusted accordingly.
They don't seem to understand that a guitar is a mid-range instrument and that natural GAIN is much better than a ton of added on distortion. I agree that scooped might be the may to go for recording sesions cause you can mix in as much of the guitar as you'd like, and back off the drums and bass, but live and practice is a different story.
I'm not asking everybody to agree with me, so I would like everyone's honest opinion. Thanks
#2
Depends what you are playing and on the environment, etc etc though that is probably obvious.

If you are playing lead you want some meaty mids, especially.

If you have scooped or low mids it can be easier to get lost in the mix and or jam for sure.
#3
You'll get a better response in the Guitar Gear and Accessories thread.

EDIT: Or maybe the recording thread.
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#4
strange how non-guitarists don't even know what the word 'equalizer' means but they always go to the mid knob
#5
Quote by The red Strat.
strange how non-guitarists don't even know what the word 'equalizer' means but they always go to the mid knob

Haha, I know
#7
if its too loud, tell everyone to turn their gear up, and punch your drummer, then he'll be nice and angry and hit things harder thus louder. problem solved, and then tell your singer that h e knows nothing about guitars and to f.uck off
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#8
They can sound awesome as long as you don't over-do it. Gives it a really vintage and metal tone
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#9
If you scoop mids live you will sound horrible. That's a generalization that happens to be true in almost every instance. Tell your singer you're the guitarist, you choose your sound. And don't forget that every different venue you play at will require a different EQ. Every room will make your amp sound different - very nice amp BTW - so don't just find an EQ and never adjust it. Just felt like adding that, it's important to know if you don't already.

But yeah, scooping mids is horrible. It sounds good in your bedroom, and maybe sometimes at GC, but pretty much no where else. Back when I was in a metal band our guitars almost sounded classic rock-ish to us on stage, but by the time it got into the audience's ears, it was brutal. I always used like 7 treble, 8 mids, 5 bass, and around 4 gain. I often used overdrive 1 instead of overdrive 2, as well. And trust me, it sounded good in the mix., and through the house speakers.

One other thing to remember is that the mic, when you're playing through the system, is right up against your speakers. So when getting a good tone, put your ear against the speakers and get a good sound there.

So anyways, definitely don't scoop mids. Hope this long post helped.
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#11
I boost mine to at least 7, sometimes upto about 9 because I find I get drowned out without them. The tone you'll get from an amp when practicing at low volumes won't be the same you'll get at gigging volumes. It's got something to do with how our ear hears sounds at high volumes (check the ultimate settings thread) so an amp will sound better at high volumes with higher mids.
#12
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! During our last practice I was FINALLY able to shut everyone the **** up when our bassist arrived. My singer told me to scoop the mids and a big smile came across my face. Your the boss I said. I even turned my self up more than everyone else. We started to jam and it sounded soooooo pathetic sounding My singer's smile slowly faded and I just relished as everyone looked stupid and I was victorious! So now that we have bass, I cut back on the Bass and Depth knobs to about 4, boosted the mids even more, cut the treble back to 5, and boosted the Presence to 9. Cuts like butter in the mix and everyone else is happy, especially me.
#13
Quote by bdof
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! During our last practice I was FINALLY able to shut everyone the **** up when our bassist arrived. My singer told me to scoop the mids and a big smile came across my face. Your the boss I said. I even turned my self up more than everyone else. We started to jam and it sounded soooooo pathetic sounding My singer's smile slowly faded and I just relished as everyone looked stupid and I was victorious! So now that we have bass, I cut back on the Bass and Depth knobs to about 4, boosted the mids even more, cut the treble back to 5, and boosted the Presence to 9. Cuts like butter in the mix and everyone else is happy, especially me.

You should have done this a while ago.
#15
OMG it's so annoying when people preach about **** they have no knoledge of. I can't scream, but I'll go up to my singer and try to show him how to do his job. Better yet, I'll go up to my drummer and tell what his snare drum is for and tell him how hard to hit smack his symbols.
#17
Quote by doggy_hat
Don't they make something (I think it's called a hotplate?) that allows you to crank your tube amp, but still be able to play at whatever volume you want?

I don't know I have a Solidstate myself.

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#18
This topic is a misconception.

The problem with scooping mids is that the guitar is a midrange instrument. You don't need to boost your mids; you just need to have them. Going lower than 30% on mids wreaks havoc on mixing. If you cut out your mids altogether... you're relying on bass, which should shouldn't have much of anyway, and on highs, which are drowned out by the drums.

Boosting mids, however, is really only intensely desired for people who want that punch, like the bluesy Ibanez Tubescreamer bunch.
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Last edited by SlinkyBlue at Jul 15, 2008,
#21
Quote by drunkinkoala
I don't even know what scooping the mids is!

Putting your mids on your amplifier to really low levels, like 0 or 1.
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#22
Quote by Alter-Bridge
Putting your mids on your amplifier to really low levels, like 0 or 1.

Hmm, I just keep them in the middle all the time.
#23
yesyesyees... that is a problem... i see it all the time... guitarists for these little first time metal bands allways scoop their mids because it "sounds better and darker" .... but thats only by itself.... they allways do that and then think their too quiet because noone can hear them ... so the turn up... and its all presence... by the time you can be heard, you drown out everyone else... so then the soundfloor goes through the roof... and its chaos...

i know ... cause that was me about 2 years ago... lol =P


i guess its like a gate.. and only one person can fit through at the same time... and if two people try with the same force neither one can get through untill one overpowers the other.... its the same with EQ... when you scoop your mids (250-900hz) you take everything you had away... your fighting the bass and kick down in the 90-100 and below and your fighting the snare "meat" at 140 then the beater pad at 2.5khz and the tom and snare impact at 2.5-4khz ... the vocals (oddly) are really the only thing that will fit nicely... but when you boost your mids... you can counter the displaced focals with a highpass or its equivelent... (just roll off below 180-200hz... and while im at it... id sugest rolling your guitar.. off at 80-100hz and below... and the symbols the same to counter that overtone"hum"


but yeah... i hope that helps... im no expert... and everythings different... but that should be a good starting point for some clairity in your mix... from there its all where you are and what sound you want...
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#24
This is an ellipse:

"..."

And this is how not to use them:
Quote by captian anarchy
but yeah... i hope that helps... im no expert... and everythings different... but that should be a good starting point for some clairity in your mix... from there its all where you are and what sound you want...


/Grammar nazi
#25
Quote by which ones pink
This is an ellipse:

"..."

And this is how not to use them:


/Grammar nazi


i have a problem... but im currently attending a support group for a overellipsers... and one for less than profecent spellers.. haha..
but none for EQ.. haha.. so i still might be of some value to this thread... =D
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#26
im no expert at all to be honest but ive kinda noticed the same thing..... it wasnt actually with a live show but me and my friends (an other guitarist and a bassist) were practicing... and of course my mids were pretty low cause im used to practicing alone in my room... and i could barely even hear my guitar.. so then i would turn it loud and drown out everyone else but all you would hear is noise (i dont have a good guitar nor a really good amp either so that is part of the problem)... but yea i think bringing up the mids would have definately help... haha ill know next time and ill take this into consideration while playing live eventually lol
#27
What are some bands that are heavy metal and are mid heavy other than Slayer?
#28
scooping the mids sounds.. er metal in your bedroom, sounds ****e on stage
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#29
Quote by bdof
What are some bands that are heavy metal and are mid heavy other than Slayer?


all of them.. its just not normally noticible in the mix.. lol
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#31
I learned that scooping the mids is horrible...You can´t be heard over the drums even if you have a 80w amp or so...
#33
the poll has spoken boosted mids ftw

EDIT: I'm fine with scooped mids but im more of a rock guy than a metal guy
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#34
Gain 10
Bass 7
Mids 6
Treble 10

Thats what i keep it on and i have a nice tone, but thats my setting for heavier stuff.
#35
I play with my mids at 4 when the band I'm plays live, and it sounds great on the recordings. As long as it's not scooped completely it should be fine.
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#36
Quote by Cryptorchild
Gain 10
Bass 7
Mids 6
Treble 10

Thats what i keep it on and i have a nice tone, but thats my setting for heavier stuff.

what amp and pickups?
#37
I've altered my eq a little since posting this-
1. Gain-6
2. Bass-4
3. Mids-9.5
4. Treble-7
5. Prescence-8
6. Depth-5

...and itsounds better then ever! Especially when you put your ear up to the speaker (recording mic level)

Plus a mids boosted eq pedal in front of it
#38
you should rollback on the mids to about 8( you can have too much mids) and up the bass a little
#39
Can someone post a sample of METAL music with scooped mids and one with boosted mids?
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