#1
Ok so basically you can play one scale in major and the other in minor and they will fit together? Am I getting that right? For example, what if I wanted to play F Blues scale and D Harmonic Minor together for improvision. Does it work like that?
#2
I'm sorry man, I have no clue where you're getting this???
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#3
you mean, if you play the C major scale and the A minor scale, they work together, right?
ADD

Check out my self-recorded demos on my profile!!! C4C

Separation is an illusion.
#5
Quote by Martindecorum
no dude ur getting wrong, if the song is in A Major, u will play A major over it,



No, the scales work together, because they are the same shape, just different starting places.
Winner of the 2011 Virginia Guitar Festival

Protools HD
Lynx Aurora 16/HD192
Mojave, Sennheiser, AKG, EV etc mics
Focusrite ISA828 pres
Waves Mercury
Random Rack Gear

65 Deluxe Reverb
PRS CE 22
American Standard Strat
Taylor 712
#6
Quote by metal4all
I'm sorry man, I have no clue where you're getting this???


I'll uuse another example. Say I wanted to play E Blues and G Major together, would this work?
#8
Well a blues scale just throws in an extra note and it's octave. I don't have a guitar with me, but I think those scales mesh.
Winner of the 2011 Virginia Guitar Festival

Protools HD
Lynx Aurora 16/HD192
Mojave, Sennheiser, AKG, EV etc mics
Focusrite ISA828 pres
Waves Mercury
Random Rack Gear

65 Deluxe Reverb
PRS CE 22
American Standard Strat
Taylor 712
#9
Quote by Xperimental
I'll uuse another example. Say I wanted to play E Blues and G Major together, would this work?

What do you mean play them together?

Like: you're soloing over a chord progression and you use E blues for 4 bars or so and then G major?
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#10
They have to have the same notes. You can't just take two random major and minor scales that have no relation to each other. You CAN take relative scales(scales with the same notes) like A minor and C major and play one scale over something in the other. You could play an A minor scale over something in C major. However, it would end up becoming C major since C is the tonal center. I suggest you do some reading. The Musician's Talk FAQ is decent.
#12
What do you mean fit together? Yes, playing one over something that uses the other would be in key. It's because they have the same notes. So, following this, they have to have the same notes for this to work.
#13
Well...they fit together. But it's the same scale in a different part of the neck. The two scales share the same notes, but it's only one and it depends on where you start and end the scale and the progression you play over.
Winner of the 2011 Virginia Guitar Festival

Protools HD
Lynx Aurora 16/HD192
Mojave, Sennheiser, AKG, EV etc mics
Focusrite ISA828 pres
Waves Mercury
Random Rack Gear

65 Deluxe Reverb
PRS CE 22
American Standard Strat
Taylor 712
#14
Quote by metal4all
I'm sorry man, I have no clue where you're getting this???


He's probably talking about the relative minor, and almost certainly has failed to get the point. But don't get despondent OP- I'm making fun of you, but I mean it in a kind hearted way.

Here's the thing: you learn to play a major scale. It starts on a root note. It turns out that you have now learned the fingering for 6 other scales. You can start playing that scale on any note. One important place you can start playing it is on the 6th note of the scale. If the major scale is C, the 6th note is A. If you play the notes of the C major scale starting on A you are playing an A minor scale. This is known as the relative minor. This is a very important relation in classical music, but it's important to understand this in other forms of music as well.

Now, you might also be talking about the fact that the minor pentatonic works well over progressions in the major key. The same relation holds here, but it is expressed differently. If you are looking for a bluesy sound you can play A minor pentatonic over a I-IV-V progression in A. This turns out to be a selection of notes from the C major scale. As you get better you can start adding notes from the blues scale and also the second (in this case, B).

Country players tend to play the _major_ pentatonic over the same progressions blues players use the minor pentatonic (well, really the blues scale) for. You can get some interesting sounds if you mix and match them, if you have a good ear.
#15
Yes you can play the E blues (or any minor key) over G Major. Every major key has a relative minor key. The minor is 3 intervals down from where ever the major key is.
myspace.com/soundsofmeta
#16
Quote by BBell
Yes you can play the E blues (or any minor key) over G Major. Every major key has a relative minor key. The minor is 3 intervals down from where ever the major key is.


Right- but that's more of a country sound. You can also play G minor pentatonic/blues scale over a G major progression- that's the more common rock/blues sound. I think that may be what the OP meant, though it's hard to tell.
#17
Quote by BBell
Yes you can play the E blues (or any minor key) over G Major. Every major key has a relative minor key. The minor is 3 intervals down from where ever the major key is.
This is incorrect.

Everyone, please read up on basic music theory and the major scale. My signature contains a great lesson that may even be updated to include a correct CoF and I suggest you read it.


However, being as nice as I am, I will explain:

The G major scale is the notes G A B C D E F#. The scale exists all over the neck. When you play the home pattern (fret 12) of the E minor pentatonic over a G major progression, your tonal center is G and, therefore, you're playing the G major scale, not E minor.

Please make sure that you understand this concept. You will be unable to progress in music theory if you don't.

POSITION AND PATTERN DO NOT MATTER AT ALL. EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON NOTE CHOICE AND THE TONAL CENTER OF THE CHORD PROGRESSION.
#18
Quote by bangoodcharlote
This is incorrect.

Everyone, please read up on basic music theory and the major scale.


I guess my first response to this got eaten. But basically, you fail. When I play in E minor, I mean E minor, dammit, and I think it's kind of presumptuous of you to tell me I don't . I think it's really egregiously presumptuous that you tell me to learn about the "major scale" and "basic music theory". You have no clue about what you're talking about, and you should be quiet and learn something from people who do.

EDIT: "The tonal center is whatever I decide it is" said Humpty- excerpt from Alice in Wonderland, or maybe Mingus in Wonderland.
Last edited by mezzopiano at Jul 11, 2008,
#19
Quote by mezzopiano
You have no clue about what you're talking about, and you should be quiet and learn something from people who do.


do you realize what you've done?

edit: you are about to get ass whooped
Gibson SG Standard
Ibanez S2170FB
Peavey JSX
Marshall 1960A
TEXAS A&M
#20
Quote by sacamano79
do you realize what you've done?

edit: you are about to get ass whooped


Yeah, well at least I have a basic grasp of theory, unlike bangoodcharlotte. They can't take that away from me .
Last edited by mezzopiano at Jul 11, 2008,
#21
Quote by mezzopiano
I guess my first response to this got eaten. But basically, you fail. When I play in E minor, I mean E minor, dammit, and I think it's kind of presumptuous of you to tell me I don't . I think it's really egregiously presumptuous that you tell me to learn about the "major scale" and "basic music theory". You have no clue about what you're talking about, and you should be quiet and learn something from people who do.

EDIT: "The tonal center is whatever I decide it is" said Humpty- excerpt from Alice in Wonderland, or maybe Mingus in Wonderland.


You're wrong, and you need to stop being a pompous ass (you're not me). Your scale is determined by the underlying harmony, not the order in which you play the notes. Over a C major progression, the notes CDEFGAB are C major, regardless of the order in which you play them. You are not switching to A minor just because you change positions on the fretboard.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#22
Quote by Archeo Avis
You're wrong, and you need to stop being a pompous ass (you're not me). Your scale is determined by the underlying harmony, not the order in which you play the notes. Over a C major progression, the notes CDEFGAB are C major, regardless of the order in which you play them. You are not switching to A minor just because you change positions on the fretboard.


You're wrong about this. Take a hard look at what people are doing when they play modal jazz. They are in fact moving the tonal center around by choosing to emphasize certain notes, while the underlying harmony remains static. Listen to Coltrane playing on "Kind of Blue", for instance. He is very clearly saying "I decide where the tonal center is." Even better, listen to how he plays on "My Favorite Things".

EDIT: though I think the pompous ass thing is not really worth addressing, let me point out that the post I was responding to was asking people to learn the major scale. You might disagree with the way I view theory, and music, but do you really think I don't know the major scale?
Last edited by mezzopiano at Jul 11, 2008,
#23
Quote by bangoodcharlote
This is incorrect.
The G major scale is the notes G A B C D E F#. The scale exists all over the neck. When you play the home pattern (fret 12) of the E minor pentatonic over a G major progression, your tonal center is G and, therefore, you're playing the G major scale, not E minor.

Please make sure that you understand this concept. You will be unable to progress in music theory if you don't.

POSITION AND PATTERN DO NOT MATTER AT ALL. EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON NOTE CHOICE AND THE TONAL CENTER OF THE CHORD PROGRESSION.


^That's it.

If you play an Eminor scale pattern over a G Major progression it is going to resolve to the G. As a result you are playing a G Major scale and it would be wrong to call it Em. If your chord progression resolves to a certain chord your melody won't resolve elsewhere at the same time. The ear doesn't work in such a complicated way. Despite your intentions are when you're playing, it will resolve to G.
Si
#24
Quote by mezzopiano
Yeah, well at least I have a basic grasp of theory, unlike bangoodcharlotte (sic)
I really want to sig that.

Anyway, I have a very solid understanding of music theory. Perhaps you do as well, but you posted incorrect information. There is no arguing that point; your post was simply wrong.

Feel free to make many posts calling me an evil bitch. However, if you do that, said posts will join rotary telephones, MSN messenger, the musket, and Hugh Jackman as things that don't matter to me at all.

Have a fantastic day.

Quote by Archeo Avis
you need to stop being a pompous ass (you're not me).
I can't determine whether you deserve a or a
#25
Quote by mezzopiano
Blabla modal

The difference between this and 'normal' music is that this piece is clearly modal. The underlying harmony stays vamping D Dorian. Therefore, everything you play over that sounds like the harmony: modal. If you were to change the underlying chord to an Fmaj7#11 and play the same stuff over it, it would sound like F Lydian. Basically, the chord decides in modal music. In nonmodal music, the progression decides the tonality (and that is either major or minor).

So, even though playing E minor over a progression in G major yields the same notes, the progression still sounds like a G major progression and there's not a thing you can do to make it sound like E minor, except vamping on E minor for a while (effectively changing tonal center).

Ps: ^is to be posting said msn.
The "Popped Collar" Award(Sexiest)
Elvenkindje

The "Rest In Real Life" Award(Best Past MT Mod)
Elvenkindje
#26
Quote by bangoodcharlote
I really want to sig that.

Anyway, I have a very solid understanding of music theory. Perhaps you do as well, but you posted incorrect information. There is no arguing that point; your post was simply wrong.

Feel free to make many posts calling me an evil bitch. However, if you do that, said posts will join rotary telephones, MSN messenger, the musket, and Hugh Jackman as things that don't matter to me at all.

Have a fantastic day.

I can't determine whether you deserve a or a

Good to have you back... Perry.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#27
Keep it cool guys.
DANNY

Quote by kevinm4435 to some guy
hey d00d i herd u dont like shred u r a genius 4 thinkin dat. all shred is fukin lame wit no soul u no wat im sayin??
#28
Quote by Xperimental
Ok so basically you can play one scale in major and the other in minor and they will fit together? Am I getting that right? For example, what if I wanted to play F Blues scale and D Harmonic Minor together for improvision. Does it work like that?


Well I think you are thinking about playing over a dominant seventh chord.


Over dominant chords you can do all kinds of funky stuff. If you are playing an A7, you can play minor scales like A blues and A Phrygian dominant but also major scales like A mixolydian, and even diminished chords like A# diminished

^That's it.

If you play an Eminor scale pattern over a G Major progression it is going to resolve to the G. As a result you are playing a G Major scale and it would be wrong to call it Em. If your chord progression resolves to a certain chord your melody won't resolve elsewhere at the same time. The ear doesn't work in such a complicated way. Despite your intentions are when you're playing, it will resolve to G.

Actually you can resolve to any note in the G Major chord. G would be the strongest be B or D would work too.
Last edited by ouchies at Jul 11, 2008,
#30
Quote by :-D
So sorry I missed this.

mezzopiano, you are wrong.

That is all.


That's all you have to say on the subject?

~Taydr~
Ka pu te ruha ka hao te rangatahi.
#32
So the only way it works is if they have the EXACT same notes? So you can't do this with scales that have different notes of each other?
#35
Quote by mezzopiano
You're wrong about this. Take a hard look at what people are doing when they play modal jazz. They are in fact moving the tonal center around by choosing to emphasize certain notes, while the underlying harmony remains static. Listen to Coltrane playing on "Kind of Blue", for instance. He is very clearly saying "I decide where the tonal center is." Even better, listen to how he plays on "My Favorite Things".



i need to adress this

personally my favourite lessons come from a jazz musician named vic juris


i think your misunderstanding. a static harmony determines the key. the modes does not change the tonal center . a lead guitarist does not control the tonal center the bassist and/or rythym guitarist do.

if you drone an E on bass let's say cause it's being used in this thread you can move between any mode in E any scale but as a lead you just play a scale you do not have control of the key you are playing in.

you do however have control on the scale and could move to any mode you want but not change the tonal center
#36
I love MT.
Quote by mezzopiano
You're wrong about this. Take a hard look at what people are doing when they play modal jazz. They are in fact moving the tonal center around by choosing to emphasize certain notes, while the underlying harmony remains static. Listen to Coltrane playing on "Kind of Blue", for instance. He is very clearly saying "I decide where the tonal center is." Even better, listen to how he plays on "My Favorite Things".

EDIT: though I think the pompous ass thing is not really worth addressing, let me point out that the post I was responding to was asking people to learn the major scale. You might disagree with the way I view theory, and music, but do you really think I don't know the major scale?
Do you think it's possible to play F lydian over a static C major chord?

TS, do you understand the relationship between the scales? While using a different scale will "fit", or be in key, if it has the same notes it will ultimately sound the same. If it has different notes then the concept you're talking about(using relative minor/major scales) doesn't apply here.