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#1
Im replacing my preamp tubes on the my 6505+ pretty soon, and Im not sure what to get. I hear great things about both the JJ's, and the Tung sol, except that JJ's are a tad dark. Can someone explain to me what "dark" sounds like? I would the thingk the 6505 is a dark amp already. Anyways, while your here, is it a good idea to replace the power amp tubes as well?
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#2
Tung-Sols.

I don't like JJ 12AX7s. For some reason they seem to make any amp harder to dial in a good tone on.


I'd suggest doing a mix of a bunch of different ones though. Go on Doug's Tubes' website and ask him what he'd suggest for what you want. With a mixed set it gives you more control over your tone by being able to swap out one position for a different brand/sounding tube, which you don't get by buying all the same tube.
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#3
That's funny, I am going to buy new preamp tubes today and I was having the same dilemma with deciding...

I chose to go with the Tung Sols as they're a bit brighter and articulate
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#4
Hm, I was checking out this Doug guys website, and im still a little confused. How would you bias a bunch of different types of tubes in the same amp?
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#5
You bias for Power Amp tubes... You don't need to bias preamp tubes...

And Power amp tubes have to be paired...
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#6
Ah, now I feel like an idiot. Well thank you.

Anyway, this is what it said on doug's site about the 6505+
Problem: Looking to quiet the amp down. Very flat sound.

Ordered: (1) Tung-Sol 12AX7
(1) Penta 12AX7
(2) Shuguang 12AX7 9th gen.
(1) Shuguang 12AX7 9th gen. Balanced

Response: The 6505+ got an all-JJ retube, which sounds great now! A lot more lively and defined.


Does the mean the person got what was listed above, or all JJ's?

The site confuses me a little.
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#7
Quote by Reildeal
You bias for Power Amp tubes... You don't need to bias preamp tubes...

And Power amp tubes have to be paired...

Exactly.

Also... for your power tubes, unless you have had your 6505 modded, you can't bias them.
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#8
Quote by dcdossett65
Ah, now I feel like an idiot. Well thank you.


Nah, don't feel like an idiot.. Guitar related **** can be really complicated and confusing.. Hell, we all learn new things all the time...

Quote by dcdossett65

Anyway, this is what it said on doug's site about the 6505+
Problem: Looking to quiet the amp down. Very flat sound.

Ordered: (1) Tung-Sol 12AX7
(1) Penta 12AX7
(2) Shuguang 12AX7 9th gen.
(1) Shuguang 12AX7 9th gen. Balanced

Response: The 6505+ got an all-JJ retube, which sounds great now! A lot more lively and defined.


Does the mean the person got what was listed above, or all JJ's?

The site confuses me a little.


That is confusing as hell! hehe
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#9
Quote by Reildeal

That is confusing as hell! hehe

Yeah, he ordered the tubes listed above
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#10
Isnt there 6 12ax7's though? That guy only got 5?

Is there a popular combo of preamp tubes that a lot of 6505 guys get?
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#11
dcdossett, If I were you, I would simply go with the Tung Sols... Then later on after working with them, you can buy single tubes of different brands and mix and match as you see fit..

I don't see how you could go wrong with all Tung Sols at the start though.

And the good thing about that is you'll have an ample number of quality replacement tubes.
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#12
Quote by Reildeal
dcdossett, If I were you, I would simply go with the Tung Sols... Then later on after working with them, you can buy tubes and singles and mix and match as you see fit..

I don't see how you could go wrong with all Tung Sols at the start though.


Ok, maybe i will do that. Sounds simple enough. Anything can be miles ahead of my tubes right now. Microphonics to the moon and back.
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#13
I don't know when you're planning on getting your tubes, but I'm going to run and pick up Tung Sol 12AX7's and retube my preamp this evening. If you want, I can come back and let you know how they turned out...

My amp is different, but it might be of some help..
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#14
Quote by Reildeal
I don't know when you're planning on getting your tubes, but I'm going to run and pick up Tung Sol 12AX7's and retube my preamp this evening. If you want, I can come back and let you know how they turned out...

My amp is different, but it might be of some help..


Yeah that would most likely be pretty helpful, I could at least get some idea what they sound like. Let me know how they work out!
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#15
Well I went out and the place I talked to earlier didn't have the Tung Sols, even though they gave me a price earlier, so I wound up just picking up a few Sovteks and an EH gold 12AX7... Gonna get some Tung Sols in a couple weeks I guess..
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#16
As much as I love my JJ's, Tung Sols will brighten that baby right up, in the good way.
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#17
Do NOT get all tung-sols in the preamp with that amp! You will kill them. Tung-sols do not fare well in cathode follower stages, which the 6505+ has. If you put one in that stage it will die an untimely death. The Sovtek LPS has the same issue. I can't find a schematic so I don't know which tubes in that amp are cathode followers, other than V1 and V6 are not. I think V2 was a cathode follower in the 5150 II, but that may not translate to the 6505.
So, I would use the suggestions Doug gave (not the all JJs, the other list). They seem very good to me. Note that a tung-sol is still a good fit for V1, just not for cathode follower stages.
Last edited by Roc8995 at Jul 12, 2008,
#18
tung sul in V1 for sure adds some grind
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#19
Quote by Roc8995
Do NOT get all tung-sols in the preamp with that amp! You will kill them. Tung-sols do not fare well in cathode follower stages, which the 6505+ has. If you put one in that stage it will die an untimely death. The Sovtek LPS has the same issue. I can't find a schematic so I don't know which tubes in that amp are cathode followers, other than V1 and V6 are not. I think V2 was a cathode follower in the 5150 II, but that may not translate to the 6505.
So, I would use the suggestions Doug gave (not the all JJs, the other list). They seem very good to me. Note that a tung-sol is still a good fit for V1, just not for cathode follower stages.

http://www.schematicheaven.com/newamps/peavey_5150-II.pdf
Too bad I can't read schematics...
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#20
But the list that doug gave is only 5 tubes?
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#21
Quote by dcdossett65
But the list that doug gave is only 5 tubes?

Maybe the guy who bought the tubes didn't need to replace the 6th one, or maybe that list is for the non-plus lol.
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#22
Ok, then someone help me out and give me a list of exactly what I should buy. Im still pretty confused. Also, one more nooby question. When replacing preamp tubes, I dont have to get it re-biased since it is only the preamp tubes, right?
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#23
You have a 6505+, unless you've had it bias-modded you CAN'T bias it. So the answer to your question is, no.

The preamps Doug recommend me for my Mark IV were:

V1 - Tung-Sol reissue 12AX7
V2 - High gain JJ ECC83S
V3 - Penta Labs 12AX7
V4 - Shuguang 12AX7C9
V5 - Sovtek 12AX7LPS

Obviously these won't do quite the same thing as they will with your 6505, but they should sound very good in it regardless.

However, I ended up going with:

V1: Tung-Sol 12AX7
V2: Shuguang 9th Gen 12AX7
V3: JJ High Gain ECC83
V4: Penta 12AT7
V5: Mullard 12AX7

Changed the Sovtek out for the Mullard, as I hadn't tried any of their preamps before. However, you shouldn't need the 12AT7 like I had put in mine.

I'd say go with the first list, solid set-up and should sound great.
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Last edited by MatrixClaw at Jul 12, 2008,
#24
Quote by MatrixClaw
You have a 6505+, unless you've had it bias-modded you CAN'T bias it. So the answer to your question is, no.

The preamps Doug recommend me for my Mark IV were:

V1 - Tung-Sol reissue 12AX7
V2 - High gain JJ ECC83S
V3 - Penta Labs 12AX7
V4 - Shuguang 12AX7C9
V5 - Sovtek 12AX7LPS

Obviously these won't do quite the same thing as they will with your 6505, but they should sound very good in it regardless.

However, I ended up going with:

V1: Tung-Sol 12AX7
V2: Shuguang 9th Gen 12AX7
V3: JJ High Gain ECC83
V4: Penta 12AT7
V5: Mullard 12AX7

Changed the Sovtek out for the Mullard, as I hadn't tried any of their preamps before. However, you shouldn't need the 12AT7 like I had put in mine.

I'd say go with the first list, solid set-up and should sound great.



Well that helps a lot, I was worried I would have to pay someone for simply installing new tubes.

The problem is the first list is only 5 tubes, and I have 6 to replace in my preamp, so i dont know what happened there.

Also, I posted this in the tube sticky, but what does V1,V2, etc mean?
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#25
Quote by dcdossett65
Well that helps a lot, I was worried I would have to pay someone for simply installing new tubes.

The problem is the first list is only 5 tubes, and I have 6 to replace in my preamp, so i dont know what happened there.

Also, I posted this in the tube sticky, but what does V1,V2, etc mean?

Just throw in another random tube in there lol. You honestly can't go wrong with mixing them, I just wouldn't recommend Groove Tubes or Electro-Harmonix for preamp tubes. Just not my cup of tea, and if I'm not mistaken, GTs are just rebranded preamp tubes.

V1, V2 etc refer to the individual spots in which the preamp tubes are put in. One of these, probably V6 in your amp, is the Phase Inverter. Each position does a different thing or is paired with another to achieve something. One might be for the clean channel, the other for one of the gain stages of the lead channel. Usually amps have a reverb driver, but the 6505 head doesn't come with reverb so you don't have to worry about getting the correct tube for that.

From my list, I'd say take a look at these:

Tung-Sol reissue 12AX7, High gain JJ ECC83S, Penta Labs 12AX7, Shuguang 12AX7C9, Sovtek 12AX7LPS and Mullard 12AX7.
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#26
Does it matter which order the tubes go in then?
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#27
Quote by dcdossett65
Does it matter which order the tubes go in then?

No, not at all. That's the point of mix-matching tubes, you can swap tubes in different positions until you find the tone you like the best. Buying all the same tube, you obviously can't do this.
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#28
Ok, final question.

When switiching around the tubes to find that tone, is there specified outlets for the tubes for say; JUST the lead channel, or just the rhythm. Or is it all just kinda one thing.

Looks like I have some tinkering to do.
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#29
actually, the 5150II/6505+ does have an adjustable bias, it just doesn't have a very large sweep. The 5150/6505 are the ones with no bias pot at all.
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#30
Quote by dcdossett65
When switiching around the tubes to find that tone, is there specified outlets for the tubes for say; JUST the lead channel, or just the rhythm. Or is it all just kinda one thing.

It's possible, though I'm not familiar with the tube layout and schematics of the 6505+ so I'm not quite sure.

I'd say you want something lower gain or smoother in the Phase Inverter though, whichever position that may be. Otherwise you're going to get a fizzy, undefined sound. That's why I threw the Mullard in there, I thought it did a pretty good job of that, the Sovtek might also be decent as well. I definitely wouldn't put the High-Gain JJ in there though, that should probably be saved for the lead channel's gain stage

Quote by Erock503
actually, the 5150II/6505+ does have an adjustable bias, it just doesn't have a very large sweep. The 5150/6505 are the ones with no bias pot at all.

Does it really? I thought they were exactly the same as the originals, just a little different in the gain structure. Interesting, never knew that!

Well, either way, he wouldn't need it for preamps
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#31
Hm, Ill look up some schematics for it. Shouldnt be too hard to find. I shot Doug an email too just to get a second opinion, seeing as I'll be ordering from him anyways.
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#32
Quote by MatrixClaw
Does it really? I thought they were exactly the same as the originals, just a little different in the gain structure. Interesting, never knew that!

Well, either way, he wouldn't need it for preamps

yeah, but it's pretty useless from what I understand anyway, lol.
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#33
So whats all this I hear about them being biased really cold from the factory? I assume people mod them then?
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#35
Quote by dcdossett65
So whats all this I hear about them being biased really cold from the factory? I assume people mod them then?

Yep, I heard the mod costs around 60 bucks.

This link might help you with the signal path thing.
http://www.fjamods.com/5150Models.html
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Quote by FaygoBro420
Yo wassup, I'm trying to expand my musical horizons if you know what I mean, so can anybody reccomend me some cool Juggalo jazz?
#36
Also check out the new mullards I have put those in every amp they sound fantastic.
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#37
Quote by Horlicks
Tung-sol preamps and JJ power amps?

I've heard the same thing Roc was mentioning about the Tung Sol and Sovtek LPS in cathode follower stages, where they can be very unreliable. I've heard it from a couple different amp makers.
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#38
Quote by Erock503
I've heard the same thing Roc was mentioning about the Tung Sol and Sovtek LPS in cathode follower stages, where they can be very unreliable. I've heard it from a couple different amp makers.

This is true. Some amp companies specifically warn against the LPS and I've seen several new production Tung Sols start to go microphonic in a comparatively short amount of time.

I have a couple of friends in the business of tubes who won't touch the new production Mullards at all.
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#39
I like this combo in my Peavey amp. (JSX)

V1- JJ ECC83S
V2- EH Gold Pin 12AX7
V3- JJ ECC83S
V4- Sovtek LPS 12AX7

I've never tried any of the chinese tubes, but have heard that they are very bright, but work well in gain slots.

I had bad results with a Tungsol that I put in the 1st and 2nd spots. Very noisy.

The JJ's were the quietest and most musical for the amp in the 1st and 3rd spots.

I like Electro Harmonix pre's for my gain spots. They just seem to have a nice gritty, biting, grinding type of gain.
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#40
TS, I must apologize for telling you to just get Tung Sols then worry about mixing and matching afterwards...

did no know about the cathode following Tung Sol reliability issue...

But yeah, like everyone else says as well, biasing won't be necessary with preamp tubes..

So maybe a good thing to do would be to get a few tung sols, an EH gold, and a few sovteks or JJ's depending on how you want your amp to sound..

Then, with those 3 you could probably mix and match a bit and figure out what you want in those slots... either way, with that handful, you'd have a decent batch and if you replaced them, you'd have some decent spare tubes..

It's all a matter of preference

I was always told to put a really quite(non microphonic) tube in V1 as it prevents sound build up in the gain stages...
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