#1
So while on a quest for a guitar with my perfect specs i came up with two good options.


Schecter Hellraiser C-1

Jackson DKMGT

they are basically the same thing but i wanted to know if the jackson being a bolt on would have a large amount of tone loss.


also if anyone has either of these guitars tell me what you think. i will be trying them out i just want to know. and does the schecter have a wide neck?


sorry, forgot to put hellraiser
Obsession! Obsessive! Obsessed! Abscess!
Last edited by Dimefan69 at Jul 12, 2008,
#2
There is only tone loss in bolt-ons when they have crappy neck joints, which is something you really only find on cheap guitars and not something like that Jackson you're looking at.

If bolt-ons were inherently worse you wouldn't see tone freaks like Eric Johnson or Steve Vai using them...
#3
the ordinary C-1 is bolt-on as well
Ibanez VBT700 V-Blade
Ibanez RG220B
Dean Vendetta 1.0
Peavey Valveking 112
Digitech XMM Metal Master
Digitech RP80 Multi Effects
Dunlop Crybaby 535Q
Boss NS-2 Noise Suppressor
#4
I have a DKMGT on order, they are really nice guitars.

Also wood vibrates better against wood than wood against glue against wood does.
Last edited by Copilot911 at Jul 12, 2008,
#5
Quote by T!AN
There is only tone loss in bolt-ons when they have crappy neck joints, which is something you really only find on cheap guitars and not something like that Jackson you're looking at.

If bolt-ons were inherently worse you wouldn't see tone freaks like Eric Johnson or Steve Vai using them...



basically. Bolt on necks are the best for energy transfer. wood to wood contact is the absolute best, and its under over hundreds of pounds of pressure.

Set necks are ****ty joints, unless VERY carefully done, which any production guitar is not. you lose your high-end with set necks. you also lose sustain, especially with neck-throguhs. dont buy into any **** about sustain coming from set necks or neck throughs, ive studied alot of energy transfer, vibration, etc. and ive been building custom guitars. there is an article in guitar builder or gutiar maker that gives hundreds of lab tests and found bolt ons offered far more sustain and clean string-tone than any other neck type. the magazine is over 200 dollars a year. rough.
#6
I always thought the only difference was sustain. (If I remember correctly) bolt ons = less sustain, and glued on = more sustain. (Could someone correct me on this? I'm not too sure)
Quote by stevenpollock
You can't be successful in Jazz music until you're at least 40. You don't have anything to say.
#7
^^ Nice. Someone who really knows what they're talking about...

^ Look above you...

And if I can hijack this thread for a second, I've got a question for LP Addict. Does occasionally taking the neck off a bolt-on guitar harm it all (for traveling an such)?
#8
no, it WILL if you dont know how to put a screw into wood, you turn it counter clockwise until it FALLS into its original grooves, if you dont do this, it will strip out after 10 or so times. you will hear it click. and dont fall for those threaded insert things, thats all bull****, that is for people who dont know how to use a screwdriver, and it effects sustain in no way shape or form. or tone. purely psychological.
#10
Like one of the above posters said, you've got crap on both ends. There can be crappy bolt ons and terrible set necks. Wood on wood is good... in this case anyway...
Gibson.
#11
Bolt-on is easier to fix than set-in neck. That's what I care most about.
G͔͓̅e͎͉̟̽ͬ͐̎̃͐ͨͅå͈͖͕̹̤̟̐̏͋ͅr̩͕̫̰̗s̹̳̼ͥ̒̍̄̅ͥ̚:


ESP Standard Eclipse I CTM VW
ESP LTD Deluxe H-1001
ESP LTD Deluxe Viper-1000 STBC
ESP Edwards E-EX-100STD
Warmoth Paulcaster "Tiger"
Tanglewood TW170 AS
Vox Tonelab ST
Blackstar HT-1R


#14
They both have the ups and downs. I beleive bolt on, like said above, may give a more 'clearer' tone, but it all depends on what bolt on it is I beleive.
#15
no matter what I personally think that a set-neck is sweeter than bolt-on because it leaves a smooth backside without screws and edges/corners!

take my Schecter C7 Jeff Loomis forexamble:


Ibanez RG2228 Prestige
Schecter C7 Jeff Loomis FR (18volt mod)
Epiphone Gothic Explorer (with SD Blackouts)
Ibanez RG350M Yellow
Peavey C5 Tigerwood 5string bass
Randall RH150G3
#16
^^A bolt neck with recessed ferrules and screws with a beveled heel will have just as much if not more upper fret access. This is the same as the ford/chevy battle thats been waging for years. There is no clear answer and alot of opinions. Some will say they can hear the difference between bolt neck/set neck just as eric johnson swears he can hear his grass grow. Right now I am swapping necks on a righthand walnut strat body. Im a lefty and have a nice carvin lefty neck I can simply swap out for the righty not something you can do with a set neck LP or SG. I have 2 LPs one a set neck and the other a bolt neck. The bolt neck is easier to play and has way better upper fret access.
#17
By the way, the DXMGT's don't really sustain for that long, and the tone is good, but not great. You could probably get something better for the price range.
#18
^^^ I agree that neck is frigging beautiful and comfortable on the higher frets but one crack and your whole guitar is history.
G͔͓̅e͎͉̟̽ͬ͐̎̃͐ͨͅå͈͖͕̹̤̟̐̏͋ͅr̩͕̫̰̗s̹̳̼ͥ̒̍̄̅ͥ̚:


ESP Standard Eclipse I CTM VW
ESP LTD Deluxe H-1001
ESP LTD Deluxe Viper-1000 STBC
ESP Edwards E-EX-100STD
Warmoth Paulcaster "Tiger"
Tanglewood TW170 AS
Vox Tonelab ST
Blackstar HT-1R


#19
Well yeah, but we don't buy guitars based upon if the neck is repairable or not. I prefer set-necks for the tone/sustain etc, and have not had an issue (yet) with any of the necks breaking or whatever. You see 50 year old LPs etc that are still being played, so I think the 'repairability' issue is a rather flimsy one. Look after you guitar, and it'll look after you. Simple.
#20
I haven't played much bolt-on's but I never really noticed a difference in my opinion.

(Hijacking for a second: Martin Scott, Shenmue ftw indeed.)
GEAR:
Schecter C-1 Plus (Emg 81/85)
ESP/LTD Viper 400
Bugera 6262 Head
Marshall 1960A Cab
Bad Monkey OD
ISP Decimator
#21
I like bolt ons. the simple fact that if something on the neck gets fucked (like the truss rod, or if the warps), the neck can be replaced.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#22
well, about replacing the neck: If you treat you instrument right, maintains it and protects it the neck wont break!
So if you ask me I would say that the whole "bolt-on-makes-it-easier-to-chance-a-damaged-neck" thing is bulls***!

I've never in my entire life broken or severely damaged a neck! The people who busts their necks either throws their guitars too much or headbangs too violently (! xD)!

well, atleast that's my opinion! Look after you're guitar and it'll last a lifetime


Ibanez RG2228 Prestige
Schecter C7 Jeff Loomis FR (18volt mod)
Epiphone Gothic Explorer (with SD Blackouts)
Ibanez RG350M Yellow
Peavey C5 Tigerwood 5string bass
Randall RH150G3
#23
Quote by TheBloodstained
well, about replacing the neck: If you treat you instrument right, maintains it and protects it the neck wont break!
So if you ask me I would say that the whole "bolt-on-makes-it-easier-to-chance-a-damaged-neck" thing is bulls***!

I've never in my entire life broken or severely damaged a neck! The people who busts their necks either throws their guitars too much or headbangs too violently (! xD)!

well, atleast that's my opinion! Look after you're guitar and it'll last a lifetime

eventually, wood will warp, especially if it's a 1 piece maple neck.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#24
Quote by oneblackened
eventually, wood will warp, especially if it's a 1 piece maple neck.

and that's why the thross rod was invented. To adjust and straighten the neck when warping! I'm yet to see a neck which warped beyond repair!

anyway, most brands are fortunatly clever enough to use 3 piece necks


Ibanez RG2228 Prestige
Schecter C7 Jeff Loomis FR (18volt mod)
Epiphone Gothic Explorer (with SD Blackouts)
Ibanez RG350M Yellow
Peavey C5 Tigerwood 5string bass
Randall RH150G3
#25
I like the les paul gibson set neck style and PRS.
And neck thru. i dont like bolt ons, only on strats
#26
Quote by TheBloodstained
and that's why the thross rod was invented. To adjust and straighten the neck when warping! I'm yet to see a neck which warped beyond repair!

anyway, most brands are fortunatly clever enough to use 3 piece necks

That's bowing. Warping is when the neck twists, in guitar terms.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#27
Quote by oneblackened
That's bowing. Warping is when the neck twists, in guitar terms.

well, I've never seen a guitar do that.... you wouldn't happen to have a picture of that? I'm kinda curious now


Ibanez RG2228 Prestige
Schecter C7 Jeff Loomis FR (18volt mod)
Epiphone Gothic Explorer (with SD Blackouts)
Ibanez RG350M Yellow
Peavey C5 Tigerwood 5string bass
Randall RH150G3
#28
I like bolt-ons and prefer them. I see two benefits from it, wood to wood contact for tonality and it's rebreakable.

As to the heels none has bothered me about getting up there.
#29
I bought an ESP MH400-NT cause the guy at SamAsh said the Neck Through gives it more sustain and makes it one solid piece of awesome instead of seprate ****. : ( I feel like i was tricked now....

WHO ELSE FEELS MY PAIN!?!?!

lol
Quote by pmeg568c
oh man, seems as though i totally forgot about anal


Quote by visa
That made absoulutely no sense how do you tie your shoes in little nazi's?
#30
I prefer playing on bolt-ons because I like feeling the guitar when i play on the upper frets. I also like the play on bolt-on if they are conferable. An example is Ibanez because most of their guitars with bolt-on necks are curved out.
If Rock is a life-style, then Metal's an addiction

Yelloooow!


Of The


UG Challenge

#31
Quote by TheBloodstained
well, I've never seen a guitar do that.... you wouldn't happen to have a picture of that? I'm kinda curious now


One of my tutor's bass guitars is knackered. The neck is warped, twisted as the other guy said. It happened because he left it against a radiator. As for bowing- that's what the truss rod is for. Like I said before, you see 50 year old LPs etc, which have one-piece mahogany necks, still being played. So obviously, the 'repairability' thing, while a genuine +1 for bolt-ons, is not like a significant 'issue' in my books. If a set-neck guitar can still be in good working order after 50 years- then it's obviously not really an issue. Yeah if you treat your guitar like crap and drop it or something, maybe you'll **** the neck up. You can't then go and blame the guitar. That's your fault.

I like bolt-ons for their different tone, but I'm a set-neck man at heart. I just love the sustain you get out of them, and I personally find upper-fret access easier on set-necks, but that's probably just because I'm so used to them. It's not like sustain is 'bad' on a bolt-on, just not as good.
#32
some people prefer differnt things.
Tom Anderson had a firm faith in bolt on necks and he has made some stunning guitars
other people rather set necks
u just have to judge for yourself
My Gear:
Jackson DK2M
PRS Paul Allender Sig
Epiphone SG Special
Fender Blues Jr.
Roland Micro Cube
#34
TS, I'd worry more about playability than tone in that case (painted necks vs. unfinished necks).

Offtopic: I thought the Loomis had a unfinished neck?!
RIP Jasmine You.

Lieutenant of the 7-string/ERG Legion

Quote by FaygoBro420
Yo wassup, I'm trying to expand my musical horizons if you know what I mean, so can anybody reccomend me some cool Juggalo jazz?
#35
Quote by aznrockerdude
Offtopic: I thought the Loomis had a unfinished neck?!

the neck is painted but since it's a satin finish it feels like it's unfinished! Satin finishes has a smooth/slippery surface if you ask me! It suits my playing style really well


Ibanez RG2228 Prestige
Schecter C7 Jeff Loomis FR (18volt mod)
Epiphone Gothic Explorer (with SD Blackouts)
Ibanez RG350M Yellow
Peavey C5 Tigerwood 5string bass
Randall RH150G3
#36
Quote by TheBloodstained
the neck is painted but since it's a satin finish it feels like it's unfinished! Satin finishes has a smooth/slippery surface if you ask me! It suits my playing style really well

Ahh, okay, I was worried because I don't like the typical painted neck of Schecters.
RIP Jasmine You.

Lieutenant of the 7-string/ERG Legion

Quote by FaygoBro420
Yo wassup, I'm trying to expand my musical horizons if you know what I mean, so can anybody reccomend me some cool Juggalo jazz?
#37
One of my tutor's bass guitars is knackered. The neck is warped, twisted as the other guy said. It happened because he left it against a radiator. As for bowing- that's what the truss rod is for. Like I said before, you see 50 year old LPs etc, which have one-piece mahogany necks, still being played. So obviously, the 'repairability' thing, while a genuine +1 for bolt-ons, is not like a significant 'issue' in my books. If a set-neck guitar can still be in good working order after 50 years- then it's obviously not really an issue. Yeah if you treat your guitar like crap and drop it or something, maybe you'll **** the neck up. You can't then go and blame the guitar. That's your fault.

I like bolt-ons for their different tone, but I'm a set-neck man at heart. I just love the sustain you get out of them, and I personally find upper-fret access easier on set-necks, but that's probably just because I'm so used to them. It's not like sustain is 'bad' on a bolt-on, just not as good.
Mahogany is better about adjusting to moisture/temperature than maple.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.