#1
hey, i just wanted to see what cabinets (or more so, the speakers inside) everyone suggested for different styles of metal, and which ones work the best, this is partially to just get a concensus, but also to help me decide what cabinet to get, i'm going to run a peavey 6505, or 6505+ through it, haven't decided which.

also, feel free to call me a dumbass, but what is the tonal, technical, and playing differences between the two models?
thanks
Last edited by Metalmaker at Jul 12, 2008,
#2
the 6505 is the 5150
the 6505+ is the 5150 II

and why do you need a half stack? do you happen to sell out major arenas all over the world?
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#3
he's probably looking for some solid tone, lots of people are buying half stacks.

Edit: this was a reply to Sabres, my bad.
#5
Seriously man, Mesa cabs are great are the way to go. Peavey and Marshall cabs sound good, but mesas seem to have a lot of low and more clarity. I just upgraded from a 1960a to a mesa straight and it just made quite a bit of a difference. The 6505 is a great sounding head, and since they're so common I would really recommend going down to a shop and talking to a worker and trying out different cabinet combinations. Also if you look around on musiciansfriend.com you can see the different speakers that go into different cabs, and that might help you make a decision. There really isn't that much difference between the 6505 and the 6505+ I've just heard that the 6505+ has a better clean sound due to another preamp tube. I'm not really too sure about that though, that's just what i've heard. Sorry that I can't be of more help.
#6
A better question would be what speakers would you suggest then pick a cab for construction purposes and budget with the speakers of your choice.

Some like Celestion Vintage 30's and some like Eminence speakers and so on and so on.
#7
i already have a valvestate, but i was wondering whether i should keep that (it's a combo) or just get a rather small cabinet, and i wondered which would be best
for types of metal that is....
#8
i think hes got a valid question, guys...i'd like to get a cab, too, but dont know from cabs...
who cares where he's playin? you want tickets? ask him!
this IS the gear section of UG, correct?? ok, well this guy has a GEAR question!!
let those who are in the know speak up, the rest of you, well sit back, hush up, and maybe learn something....
Epi Les Paul Classic
Peavey Valveking 112
Digitech Bad Monkey
Pignose 7-100 amp
Supro high-gain pocket amp
Epi Acc w/ soundhole pup

I have 2 heads, but only enuff blood to run 1 @ a time. Gravity pulls down. Not My Fault, Girls!
#9
sorry, sabre's comment irked me a bit, i vented..
Epi Les Paul Classic
Peavey Valveking 112
Digitech Bad Monkey
Pignose 7-100 amp
Supro high-gain pocket amp
Epi Acc w/ soundhole pup

I have 2 heads, but only enuff blood to run 1 @ a time. Gravity pulls down. Not My Fault, Girls!
#10
okay so now the question, at some given advice, is what SPEAKERS would be best for my style of music, i play trivium, metallica, killswitch, etc.
not for each band, just what would probably fit them all them best if at all possible
#11
I wouldn't suggest anything with G12T-75s in it with a 5150. Mine sounded like crap through them.

Buy something with Vintage 30s or Eminence Legends.
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#12
I like the natural mids that Vintage 30's give my sound. To compensate, I have my amps mids at half. Keep in mind that this is still a lot of mids, I just like the speakers mids better than my amps preamp eq mids.

So...I suggest V30's

Mesa Stiletto 4x12
Orange 4x12
Randal XL 4x12
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Avatar 4x12
Carvin Legacy 4x12
MARSHALL JVM 210H
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KRANK 412
MESA 412
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DIMARZIO
CELESTION
#13
Quote by sabres61
the 6505 is the 5150
the 6505+ is the 5150 II

and why do you need a half stack? do you happen to sell out major arenas all over the world?


I have HATED every combo metal amp Ive ever tried. Even the 6505 combo.

It not up to us whether he gets on or not. I think its a solid invesment none the less. The question was about the speakers.

I think Vintage 30's compliment the 6505 well, but dont rule out the cab construction. The new marshall cabs are considered the "standard", when Im pretty sure I would take almost anything over one. I havent tried, but have heard Mesa cabs are a good direction to go in. Also, check out Genz Benz. The G-Flex kicks some serious ass.
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F/S:
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Orange PPC412
#15
Quote by Nathan_393
he's probably looking for some solid tone, lots of people are buying half stacks.

Edit: this was a reply to Sabres, my bad.

basically everyone who attempts gigs with his band tends to buy halfstacks becaus there is no way for you to be heard next to a drummer onstage... I can say it myself: had a marshall 100 watt combo, everybody told me after ghigs they didn't catch anyhing of what I had played. Now I got a line 6 spider 3 150 watts halfstack and it is just perfect!!!
#16
Quote by daywalker69
basically everyone who attempts gigs with his band tends to buy halfstacks becaus there is no way for you to be heard next to a drummer onstage... I can say it myself: had a marshall 100 watt combo, everybody told me after ghigs they didn't catch anyhing of what I had played. Now I got a line 6 spider 3 150 watts halfstack and it is just perfect!!!
You're a tool? I gig with a 30w 1x12 combo and my co-guitarist has a 20w head and a 2x12 cab, and most of the time we barely even get the whole rig cranking.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#17
Quote by MrCarrot
You're a tool? I gig with a 30w 1x12 combo and my co-guitarist has a 20w head and a 2x12 cab, and most of the time we barely even get the whole rig cranking.


well excuse me but then I guess that your drummer and his double bass don't ring in your ears hours after having played ... if it was the case you would propably not be heard by people when doing a live gig... also ( just by the way ) last time we played, we had a 350 people audience... i don't think a 20W head would be enough to be heard on such an occasion...
#18
Quote by daywalker69
well excuse me but then I guess that your drummer and his double bass don't ring in your ears hours after having played ... if it was the case you would propably not be heard by people when doing a live gig... also ( just by the way ) last time we played, we had a 350 people audience... i don't think a 20W head would be enough to be heard on such an occasion...


You could use a 5 watt valve head as long as you are miced the audience will be able to hear you.

The man on the mixing desk controls your volume and your place in the mix so you shouldn't need to worry about the audience hearing you unless the gig supplies a bad soundguy.
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#19
wow, there is a whole lotta nothing being accomplished in this thread

@daywalker:
i agree, drummers are a problem playing live, but i truly don't believe you need a 4x12 cab live. the real trick to hearing your guitar live is elevating the speaker cabinet or getting one of those stands for combo amps that leans the amp back and angles it towards your head. projection of the cabinet is crucial when trying to monitor yourself live without a monitoring system. many gigs i would take my peavey 4x12 cab and my orange 2x12 just so i could put the orange on the 4x12. i would only plug into the 2x12 but it was plenty loud enough with my 15 watt class A amp and my cab above waist level. also about the amp thing, if you are running solid state amps you probably would have to buy 100 or 150 watt amps to keep up, they just don't have the same kinda power a tube amp has. i find a 30 to 50 watt tube amp is about all you need live, i usually play out my 15 watt orange tiny terror and i keep my old music man hd212 150 watt tube combo around JIC i need to play some arena rock(it sounds huge hooked up to the peavey). i don't like showing this because this band is kinda embarrassing but this is my orange tiny terror hooked up to my orange 2x12 going against my roommate's hughes and kettner triamp 100 watt amp with a heavily modified orange 4x12 cabinet. i apologize for the quality, it was just a normal camcorder. this is an out doors concert mind you and i am under speakered and under powered compared to the roomie, but i did run the cab sideways to get it closer to my ears, the amp was not cranked either:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7uVvoZYycA

there probably wasn't even a hundred people at this gig, but we did play an open lawn and i didn't have a single problem being heard.

@metalmaker
i am just gonna break down cabs first. the cabinet housing the speakers itself has a number of factors to consider in itself. open or closed back construction design, corner and edge fitting, dimensions of the cabinet and material the cabinets are made of are all considerations. open back cabs are less percussive and lack some lower end frequencies, while closed back cabs are quite the opposite. since i take it your into metal aopen back cabs may not be the way to go, this is probably why you hate combos. i really don't know too much about the tongue and groove methods used in assembling the edges and the corners of the cabs but i do know the cabinets that just use screws are not of as good construction as the ones that use a tongue and groove method. dimensions of the cabinet will also be quite a large factor as well, i like deep cabs cuz you get more bass, the bigger the area of the dead air space in the cabinet the bigger the noise you get out(hence i play orange cabs cuz there frickin huge). cabinets are only really made of 2 woods(with exceptions) the first is pine, the second is baltic birch. pine is used in fender amps i believe, they use pine as a board and it is notably stronger and more durable in birch. the birch most cabinet makers use is a marine grade baltic birch ply board. something like 13 ply at 17mm, don't quote me on that but it should be close. baltic is a denser wood i think, i do know it give a denser sound. i find baltic is much more important in closed back cabs than open backed because the tonal qualities of the wood are better exploited in closed back cabs, so the deeper sound resonates from the birch better. 2 more considerations with cabs is porting and casters. porting is when the cabinet will have a specially designed hole that creates back pressure and creates more low end, you usually find these in bass cabinets for extra low end, but you can find them in guitar amps too(like dr. z cabs), it is used in guitar cabs to make a smaller cab have the low end of a bigger cab. casters or no casters is also a decision, casters elevate the cabinet on wheels so the cab can be moved easier, but this also keeps the cab from being coupled on the ground. so amps are just flat on the bottom or have skid plates so the amp has more area in contact with the ground, this let the cab resonate with the room better and allows for more low end as the legend goes.

next is speakers. as far as i am concerned there is only 1 speaker company, and they are in england. celestion speakers are my preference but many people also prefer the eminence speakers, i don't know crap about eminence so you will only get knowledge of celestion from me. celestion made the first dedicated guitar speaker in the 50's, the celestion alnico blue; the speaker is known for a chimey sound, a sensitive attack, smooth sound, and noticeable mids to help cut through mixes. these speaker run ~250 usd and are the high end flag ship speaker model for boutique cabs(like that really expensive vox ac30). the drawback is the speaker only handles 15 watts, celestion has since released and alnico gold modle with handle 50 watts so you can run more powerful head with alnico now. in the 60's celestion released a speaker that defined rock music of the time, the G12M-30(aka 'greenback') used the newer technology of the time to release higher power handling speaker for less price(mainly with the use of ceramic magnets instead of alnico). greenbacks are known for a darker sound and is famous for it's unique breakup(breakup is the distortion from a speaker when you run it at high volumes). during this era celestion released the G12H-30 which used a 50 oz magnet instead of the 35 oz magnet used in the M, this speaker had a more pronounced low end, and had a 'syrupy' sound; it was used by itself and in conjunction with M's, hendrix was a famous H user(speaker, not the drug). during the 70's and 80's celestion released a butt ton of other speakers like
-vintage 30, pronounced mids, cuts through a mix, pretty much standard issue in alot of good cabs. i heard it was developed to attempt to sound more like an alnico speaker while using a 50 oz ceramic speaker.
-lead 80 / G12T-75 / G12K-85 / G12K-100 - these are all speakers that appeared in cabs made for high powered heads thoughout the 70's, 80's, and 90's. i have only really played out of the G12K-85(they are in my peavey 4x12) they are not a very colorful speaker, they are kinda dry, they don't have much breakup so they sound pretty clean(in fact almost sterile), they handle low end amazing. i really like the G12K-85 for the music i was doing at the time, but now i usually either mix them with my V30 cab or just use my v30 cab. i have not heard overly good things about the g12T-75's. the lead 80 were used by a number of metal bands in the late 70's and early 80's with the higher powered amps they were made for. metallica itself used v30's in most of their cabs in the 80's i beleive, i almost wanna say i read that they use G12H-30's now. G12K-100's are rated for 100 watts a piece and were kinda made for use in 1x12 cabs to handle higher wattage heads. the g12k was used in 1x12 cabs from orange so you could play almost all they're amps with it; it was also used in their cab made for the thunderverb because it handles low end so well and the thunderverb is a bass or guitar amp and works well with 7 strings.
you must also remember people mix and match speakers for taste as well

with that all said, i would recommend a closed backed cab with baltic birch construction. for speakers i find the 1/2 Celestion Vintage 30's and 1/2 G12H-30's give and awesome balance of mid boost with a good syrupy low end that is substantial. the g12H can be replaced with g12K-100 for 'not so syrupy' tone. the more expensive option that has a similar effect is matching a alnico blue or gold with a G12H-30 heritage, the blue just has superior sonic qualities to the V30, and the G12H heritage is made to the original specs of the 60's. those are just options to consider what you may want to end up doing.

i would have to agree with sabre a little bit(not the attitude, just the sentiment), you don't really need a huge amp or cab, in fact using a smaller tube amp allows you to drive it as it properly should allowing all the harmonics and overtones and feedback to sparkle, that is why you would buy a tube amp to begin with right? 2x12 cabinets are about all i need right now, i used 4x12's, they are just not necessary imo, if you have a tone that cuts through the mix and you place your cab correctly you won't have a problem. i also like the idea that you can get multiple 2x12 loaded with different speakers, so you can have an alnico cab, and a g12H cab and a greenback cab, thats awesome. you can also get 2 amps to run with the cabs and run stereo setups(i do this a lot with my music man and my TT w/orange 2x12)

as far as cabinet brands, i think orange has it all over the competition for the most part(compared to marshall, hughes and ketner, mesa boogie, etc.), but brands like dr. Z and thd(along with other boutique amp makers) are also interesting. but the only cab that you should buy would be avatar cabs. they're dirt cheap and loaded with options. avatar cabs are made of thick baltic birch, use tongue and groove connections, have 3 different models of dimensions(conpies fender, old marshall bluesbreaker, and orange), and they let you choose wiring setups to set the impedance of the cab and you choose your celestion speakers(G12K-100, G12M-30, G12H-30, Vintage 30, lead 80, and G12T-75 are all mix and matchable without any increase in price, you won't find that anywhere else, and you can upgrade to alnico speakers or G12M heritage or G12H heritage to extra money.

http://www.avatarspeakers.com/

i hope this answers just about all the questions, you should now know what to look in your future purchase

amen
#20
oh my, i do believe we've found the next rig guru in gumbilicious,
and thank you incredibly much, i have a 2X12
it just seemed like no brand would offer vintage 30's in anything under a 4X12
#21
Quote by daywalker69
well excuse me but then I guess that your drummer and his double bass don't ring in your ears hours after having played ... if it was the case you would propably not be heard by people when doing a live gig... also ( just by the way ) last time we played, we had a 350 people audience... i don't think a 20W head would be enough to be heard on such an occasion...
Well excuse me but what if you're completely wrong? I played a 1000-capacity gymnasium with a 5w combo (mic'd) and my co-guitarist was running his unmiced 20w head without trouble, I think he got it to about halfway on the master. The mix was perfect too.

Anyway, I second gumbilicious; I would go for a 2x12 Avatar cab with a G12H and a V30. The V30 has a fair amount of top end and attack, the G12H has more restrained highs but more mids, warmth and a bigger, tighter low end. It just happens that in a 2x12 they compliment each other beautifully.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#22
thing is, we never use any mixer, nobody ever controlls our tune and volume: we just plug - in , and that it. end of the line. so of course your sound is getting mixed in the same time by the "operator" everything should be roling... but that is not our case. still, i think halfstacks look cooler
#23
Quote by daywalker69
thing is, we never use any mixer, nobody ever controlls our tune and volume: we just plug - in , and that it. end of the line. so of course your sound is getting mixed in the same time by the "operator" everything should be roling... but that is not our case. still, i think halfstacks look cooler
For that one the only mixing done was done for the 5w combo. I've had 3 gigs since with the 30w combo, one of which was played with the amp running at 15w (pulling power tubes) and they varied from 50 to 300 people, and none of them required me turned up anything above 4/10.

Basically, nothing wrong with halfstacks - they're just often a bad choice for budget players and you have to pay a fair bit more to get a good cab and such. You don't always need the volume and headroom but I like to get my amp as high up as I can for all the extra warmth and harmonics.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#24
yeah sure! i get what you mean...
but i got mine on ebay for 300 bucks instead of 600so i was pretty happy about !
#25
Quote by MrCarrot
For that one the only mixing done was done for the 5w combo. I've had 3 gigs since with the 30w combo, one of which was played with the amp running at 15w (pulling power tubes) and they varied from 50 to 300 people, and none of them required me turned up anything above 4/10.

Basically, nothing wrong with halfstacks - they're just often a bad choice for budget players and you have to pay a fair bit more to get a good cab and such. You don't always need the volume and headroom but I like to get my amp as high up as I can for all the extra warmth and harmonics.



Mr. Carrot is so awesome I wanna give him a hug. He is the protector of the intelligence on UG.
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#26
thanks for the compliment, but i am no rig guru, it is just that me and my roommate have a whole bunch of amps and cabs and we are devout celestion users, between use we have cabs with V30's, G12M's(from the 60's), G12H's (from the 70's), G12K-85's, and alnico golds. the next cabinet i will buy will either be a 2x12 with G12H heritage speakers or a 2x12 with alnico blues. i usually refer metal heads to hybrid G12H/V30 amps cuz they are very well balanced. you just seemed like you were starving for knowledge on the subject so i thought i would share the information i have gleaned from the last few years
#27
I would say that Orange are a briliant and sexy cab if you live within the UK, I love my one to bits.
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