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#1
So while scales are building blocks to melody and are only meant as a guideline, some guitarists base their own styles after certain scales.... I was wondering if anyone knew the main scales mark tremonti and synyster gates use? Reason I ask is I play alot of modes and I think mark uses something like Phygrian and Dorian... and of course I am probably really wrong but its just what I think from hearing it... and synysters scale influence illudes me completely.. if anyone has any idea please help.
#2
Syn pretty much sticks to Aeolian for the most part, usually in D. Also a lot of his runs are chromatic and he loves his sweeping.
#4
Both of them very likely stick to the minor scale (not aeolian)
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#5
I'm not that familiar with Mark Tremonti's work, but Synyster Gates works heavily in the natural minor scale with a lot of chromatic masturbation thrown in.
#7
Quote by Archeo Avis
Both of them very likely stick to the minor scale (not aeolian)


This is getting pretty ridiculous.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#9
Mark likes the major scale. I don't know a ton of Creed or Alterbridge, but what I've heard is pretty much just D Major.

A7X uses a variety of minor scales. Minor-key music is generally more complex than major-key music, so to pinpoint one trademark scale is difficult and rather pointless. A progression involving the natural minor scale and a (implied) maj V chord would be typical of a minor key.
#10
Quote by :-D
What is?


Well, the Aeolian mode and the natural minor scale are comprised of the same notes
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#11
^Yes, but natural minor is very often mixed with harmonic minor. Modal music tends to be more strict about what notes can be used. If the #7 is used at all, it isn't modal.
#12
Quote by duncang
Well, the Aeolian mode and the natural minor scale are comprised of the same notes

Yeah, he's just differentiating between the applications of, for example, a natural minor progression and a strictly Aeolian modal vamp.

Nice quote in your sig, by the way.
#13
Quote by Archeo Avis
Both of them very likely stick to the minor scale (not aeolian)


To be fair, if the guy is in natural minor the whole time there is no reason to say that he's not using Aeolian.

Quote by Resiliance
This is getting pretty ridiculous.



I agree

the difference between "key based" music and "modal" music is not relevant here.

Quote by :-D
Yeah, he's just differentiating between the applications of, for example, a natural minor progression and a strictly Aeolian modal vamp.

Nice quote in your sig, by the way.



Just a thought to stir up the usual debate (hehe).....

whats the difference between a natural minor progression and an "Aeolian" progression?

- my take is that there is a difference between harmonic and melodic minor progressions VS aeolian..... but there is no difference between a purely natural minor progression VS purely Aeolian.
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Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 14, 2008,
#14
Quote by :-D
What is?


Pointless pedanticalness.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#15
the difference between "key based" music and "modal" music is not relevant here.


It's relevant to anyone who reads this thread and think that modal and tonal music are the same thing.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#16
Quote by Archeo Avis
It's relevant to anyone who reads this thread and think that modal and tonal music are the same thing.


What about the people who read this thread and think "oh ****, I thought they had the same notes, what the **** is going on? Where am I wrong?" who then go and post a thread about it so you can go in the the who to listen to thread and complain about how stupid threads are cropping up all over the place?

Be reasonable, goddamnit. Stop being a pedant. You're creating way more issues than you're solving.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#17
Quote by Resiliance
What about the people who read this thread and think "oh ****, I thought they had the same notes, what the **** is going on? Where am I wrong?" who then go and post a thread about it so you can go in the the who to listen to thread and complain about how stupid threads are cropping up all over the place?

Be reasonable, goddamnit. Stop being a pedant. You're creating way more issues than you're solving.


Calm your Goddamn temper. This is a theory forum. If we're going to pass around false information just to make it easier, we might as well merge with the pit.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#18
Quote by Archeo Avis
It's relevant to anyone who reads this thread and think that modal and tonal music are the same thing.



You could have just said "he probably uses natural minor" and left it at that.

Quote by Resiliance

Be reasonable, goddamnit. Stop being a pedant. You're creating way more issues than you're solving.


exactly, thats what im saying as well.


Sometimes I think people are more interested in telling other people they are "wrong" than actually helping anyone.
shred is gaudy music
#19
Quote by GuitarMunky
my take is that there is a difference between harmonic and melodic minor progressions VS aeolian..... but there is no difference between a purely natural minor progression VS purely Aeolian.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough - you're absolutely right. I was referring not to a purely natural minor progression, but something that borrowed tones from another scale that would cause it not to be pure Aeolian. Something like a V7-i for the sake of ease.
#20
...back on topic,

I'm not especially familiar with Mark Tremonti, but Gates definitely uses a fair bit of harmonic minor as well. Also, they don't really have trademark scales since everyone uses them, what they have is their individual trademark styles that make them sound different.
#21
Quote by Archeo Avis
Calm your Goddamn temper. This is a theory forum. If we're going to pass around false information just to make it easier, we might as well merge with the pit.


Nobody's telling you pass around false information. I'm not saying you can't explain WHY, technically, aeolian =/= minor scale, but putting it like you did is just irresponsible and completely stupid.

He's not doing a thesis on music theory for crying out loud. Stop being a hardass and try to actually help people instead of being needlessly pedantic.

Quote by GuitarMunky
Sometimes I think people are more interested in telling other people they are "wrong" than actually helping anyone.


That's pretty much what it comes down to, yes.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#22
Quote by Resiliance
Nobody's telling you pass around false information. I'm not saying you can't explain WHY, technically, aeolian =/= minor scale, but putting it like you did is just irresponsible and completely stupid.


In what conceivable way is it "irresponsible"?

He's not doing a thesis on music theory for crying out loud.


No, he's asking a question about it.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#24
Quote by Archeo Avis
In what conceivable way is it "irresponsible"?


In the way that to someone not as knowledgeable as us on the topic, the conclusion one draws when reading what you wrote is one that is completely false and nowhere near what you actually mean. Heck, they couldn't possibly fathom what you mean! In this way, you're the one spreading false information (albeit unwillingly/unwittingly). It's not helping anyone.

Like I said, if you're going to go the pedantic route (we both know for all practical intents and purposes pertaining to this thread one can use aeolian or natural minor interchangably) explain thoroughly why, or don't bother.

Quote by :-D
I'll interrupt this to ask:

Resiliance, what is your avatar? It looks familiar but I can't figure out what it is.

Resume argument.


Eddie.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#25
Quote by Resiliance
Eddie.


I always thought it was Mumm-ra from Thundercats
#26
Quote by grampastumpy
they don't really have trademark scales since everyone uses them, what they have is their individual trademark styles that make them sound different.


+1 thats a good way to put it and I think that the concept applies in practically all cases.

Quote by Archeo Avis
In what conceivable way is it "irresponsible"?



I would just say its unnecessary. You could have just gave your advice about it "probably being the minor scale".... and left the whole Aeolian VS minor thing out of it. Then you would have answered the TS's question, and their would be no argument. (at least not this particular one )
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 14, 2008,
#28
A lot of Mark Tremonti's work is straight up major (such as Open Your Eyes), but he uses various minor things as well (like Ties That Bind). A7X is pretty much just standard minor metal. Some natural, some harmonic, and with chromatic tones thrown in here and there.
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#29
Synyster Gates' favourite scale (He said so himself) is D Harmonic Minor. However, he likes to throw in chromatic notes from outside the scale as well. Despite being a huge fan, I'm not sure about Tremonti.
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#30
Quote by Archeo Avis
Calm your Goddamn temper. This is a theory forum. If we're going to pass around false information just to make it easier, we might as well merge with the pit.

Well, if there are going to be dickheads like you going around MT not helping anyone, putting anyone who knows less than you down and simply posting for the sake of satisfying their own, already uncessesarily inflated, ego, then i agree with you - this may aswell be the pit.
#31
Quote by 12345abcd3
Well, if there are going to be dickheads like you going around MT not helping anyone, putting anyone who knows less than you down and simply posting for the sake of satisfying their own, already uncessesarily inflated, ego, then i agree with you - this may aswell be the pit.



+3

He doesn't like me anyway.
#32
Quote by RichieJovie
+3

He doesn't like me anyway.

lol, i'm just sick of every thread he posts in being hijacked so he can tell people they're wrong - it just means whoever started the thread doesn't get their question answered.

Also, i can see that what i just said is happening to this thread, but TS got quite a few answers, and hopefully Archeo will refrain from doing the same to other threads because of this.
#33
Synester Gates uses the Harmonic Minor a lot, but he uses outside notes in most of his solos.
#34
while we are on the topic of what scales guitarist like to use, anybody want to point out the type of scale david gilmour likes?
#35
^David Gilmour likes to use AMAZING PHRASING.
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#37
Far as i know, Davey G uses the same scales (major and minor, and their relevant pentatonics) as mortals. Just better. Resi would be a guy to give a more detailed analysis.
#38
Quote by Parr
while we are on the topic of what scales guitarist like to use, anybody want to point out the type of scale david gilmour likes?


Well in specific solos, like comfortably numb (the outro), is a combination B minor, and B penta blues.

Time solo is just F#min and it goes into relative major when the next riff kicks in.

That's actually pretty much all the scales he uses, minor, major and penta blues. I haven't heard all his solos though, but those three stand out.
#39
Quote by GuitarMunky
+1 thats a good way to put it and I think that the concept applies in practically all cases.
Why thank you man.

Anyway, I'd like to point out again that for most guitarists, it's not what scales they use. Most rock guitar players stick to standard major and minor tonalities. What makes them different is their rhythm, note choice, when and if they choose to use notes outside the key and which ones, etc. Figuring out what scale someone uses give you no real insight into their style. Try transcribing their solos and seeing how they interact with the underlying chords. Gilmour does stick to regular major, minor, pentatonic stuff, the "magic" is how he does it.
Last edited by grampastumpy at Jul 15, 2008,
#40
Quote by 12345abcd3
Well, if there are going to be dickheads like you going around MT not helping anyone, putting anyone who knows less than you down and simply posting for the sake of satisfying their own, already uncessesarily inflated, ego, then i agree with you - this may aswell be the pit.


Where did I put anyone down. Show me.

lol, i'm just sick of every thread he posts in being hijacked so he can tell people they're wrong - it just means whoever started the thread doesn't get their question answered.


How in God's name does does a brief offhand comment relevant to his post hijack the thread? His question was answered repeatedly. If anything hijacked the thread, it was Resilience' bitch fit.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
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