#1
my band practices in a basement which isn't big but its not small either. me and other guitarist both use valvekings 212, our setting are around bass 6-7 mids anywhere between 3-6 and trebel is usually around 7-8. our drummer has micd bass drums and our singer goes through a 600 watt pa with two big 300 watt speakers, something like a 15 in speaker. our volume is usualy around 12 o clock mabey more depending on if the bassist is present. when we play, especially in lower tunings (drop A, Bb, all that) sometimes sections are somewhat lost in the sound and things become fuzzy and unclear. i also cannot get the feedback to stop, i run my guitar through my jekyll and hyde which has a noise gate which i adjusted to almost maximum. i usually turn off the level on the distortion side and then just use it as a mute. i wanna know bassically what i can do to decrease noise and fuzz whilst playing, and whilst not. we both use similar guitars with an EMG 81/85 combo btw.
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#2
Turn down your bass, turn up your mids, turn down your treble, turn down your gain. Have your bassist cut his mids and highs a bit.
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#3
Well, I know this isn't your question, but as a band it'd probably help if you spread out that tone a little. You're both playing the same pickups through the same amps with the same EQ. You need to spice it up a little.
#4
do you really need to play through a PA down there? first off, up your mids. your treble should never be too far ahead of your mids if you want to be heard in the mix well. i usually keep my mids a lil higher than treble. also, you're both using the SAME amp. both using active EMG humbucker guitars....yuck. you're pretty much the same exact tone over itself....one of you needs to have a slightly different sound if you don't wanna get lost in the mix. maybe have one be a lil more on the 'cleaner' side....just a bit less dist.

are u both using the amp's gain or a distortion pedal? what are the settings on the dirty channel/stombox for BOTH of you? gimme all the details man, might be able to turn this thing around lol.

oh, on a side note: using different amps would be the best way (in combination with upping your mids) to not get lost in the mix. and if you ARE using the same exact amp, use different style guitars....whether it be different style pups (SC or HB or P-90), different ouput level pups (high, low, moderate) and then of course different OD pedals or combinations.
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#5
we're using amp distortion. and honestly the vk was the cheapest and best way to go for the both of us. we didnt want 1 decent amp and something ****ty to back it up. you also need to consider that i play metal, high gain and teh brootalz is what im looking for. i dislike the warm sound that the mids gives and taking away all that treble reduces crunch considerably. alls i want is to get rid of the noise when we have a sudden stop and get rid of the fuzz behind the distortion. and yes, we will move on to different amps in the future, this is a practice setup right now and once we get jobs n such, which is going to be very soon, then ill probably look into some jsx's and my other guitar may move to mesa or vice versa.

Quote by slash_rocks2005
do you really need to play through a PA down there?


our singer needs to sing through something?
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#8
Quote by player o slayer
we're using amp distortion. and honestly the vk was the cheapest and best way to go for the both of us. we didnt want 1 decent amp and something ****ty to back it up. you also need to consider that i play metal, high gain and teh brootalz is what im looking for. i dislike the warm sound that the mids gives and taking away all that treble reduces crunch considerably. alls i want is to get rid of the noise when we have a sudden stop and get rid of the fuzz behind the distortion. and yes, we will move on to different amps in the future, this is a practice setup right now and once we get jobs n such, which is going to be very soon, then ill probably look into some jsx's and my other guitar may move to mesa or vice versa.

Noise gate?
Also, have one VK dialed in for a brighter sound, and the other for a warmer sound.
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#9
part of that 'fuzz' may be from the mid scooping. it's hard to explain but if i have hi gain and scoop the mids i get a kind of fuzzy/buzzy/nasty growling sound when playing. not nice at all. the brootals sound best w/ mids. you have to remember, when you play by urself scooping the mids sounds alright, but the electric guitar is supposed to be the 'middy' instrument. that's where the meat of ur sound is at. if you take out the mids you take out the guitar's purpose. and in a two guitarist metal band, having low mids is BAD.

get a noisegate to get rid of unwanted hum.

also, what are the EQ settings for your distortion channels? if you've got the gain too high (just cuz it goes to the max doesn't mean ALL of that knob is usable) it'll mud up a lot, especially w/ high output active pups.

believe it or not your mids NEED to be upped some. otherwise you'll stay 'lost' in the mix.

slash_edit: oh and about the PA thing, let ur vocalist sing through the PA alone and just play ur amps how they are. just EQ his volume to be the same as yalls.

also: low quality PA speakers can play a part in this as well. just as the guys in my praise and worship band. i don't like using the PA systyem AT ALL
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*Agile AL3000 Les Paul w/ Alnico IIs
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*fellow LEO feel free to give a shout out
#10
Quote by player o slayer
we're using amp distortion. and honestly the vk was the cheapest and best way to go for the both of us. we didnt want 1 decent amp and something ****ty to back it up. you also need to consider that i play metal, high gain and teh brootalz is what im looking for. i dislike the warm sound that the mids gives and taking away all that treble reduces crunch considerably. alls i want is to get rid of the noise when we have a sudden stop and get rid of the fuzz behind the distortion. and yes, we will move on to different amps in the future, this is a practice setup right now and once we get jobs n such, which is going to be very soon, then ill probably look into some jsx's and my other guitar may move to mesa or vice versa.


our singer needs to sing through something?


Ok, so you ask for help, and flat out ignore it.

Enjoy sounding like a shit group of amateurs then.

A dwarf might hear you. What then?

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#11
The louder you play the more sound pressure levels you generate. It's all relative as larger rooms need more sound to fill them and vice versa for smaller rooms. For every room there's maximum amount of sound pressure (spl) that it can be attained before natural distortions in the sounds waves in the air occur as they bounce around and interfere with one another.
Since you're practicing and really need ot hear allthe players parts to judge performance I'd recommend scaling back a little bit. You always want a good balance between instruments and the baseline should be the one instrument who's volume can't be adjusted (without mic's of course!). Drums by nature have a good output and can easily fill an area the size of a basement.
Try setting your volumes relative to an unmiked drummer so that he/she can be heard clearly with guitars and bass playing! Then adjust your vocals to be heard above them all. There was also some good advice in earlier responses about adjusting your guitar amp settigns differently to help them stand out from one another.
Moving on.....
#12
Quote by player o slayer
we're using amp distortion. and honestly the vk was the cheapest and best way to go for the both of us. we didnt want 1 decent amp and something ****ty to back it up. you also need to consider that i play metal, high gain and teh brootalz is what im looking for. i dislike the warm sound that the mids gives and taking away all that treble reduces crunch considerably. alls i want is to get rid of the noise when we have a sudden stop and get rid of the fuzz behind the distortion. and yes, we will move on to different amps in the future, this is a practice setup right now and once we get jobs n such, which is going to be very soon, then ill probably look into some jsx's and my other guitar may move to mesa or vice versa.


our singer needs to sing through something?


You could have gotten two Bugera combos for the price of the two VK212 and honestly, that would have been a much better idea.
#13
what a way to break the ice timi.

love or hate ya, you're a character that's for sure despite past garbage i think you're alright when you're not pissed off.
My MAIN Gear
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"They call him the 'Sand Spider.' -Why? -Probably because it sounds scary"
*Agile AL3000 Les Paul w/ Alnico IIs
*Randall RM50
*Dunlop CFH
*fellow LEO feel free to give a shout out
#14
Quote by slash_rocks2005
what a way to break the ice timi.

love or hate ya, you're a character that's for sure despite past garbage i think you're alright when you're not pissed off.


....

A dwarf might hear you. What then?

My Music
#15
Quote by slash_rocks2005
part of that 'fuzz' may be from the mid scooping. it's hard to explain but if i have hi gain and scoop the mids i get a kind of fuzzy/buzzy/nasty growling sound when playing. not nice at all. the brootals sound best w/ mids. you have to remember, when you play by urself scooping the mids sounds alright, but the electric guitar is supposed to be the 'middy' instrument. that's where the meat of ur sound is at. if you take out the mids you take out the guitar's purpose. and in a two guitarist metal band, having low mids is BAD.

get a noisegate to get rid of unwanted hum.

also, what are the EQ settings for your distortion channels? if you've got the gain too high (just cuz it goes to the max doesn't mean ALL of that knob is usable) it'll mud up a lot, especially w/ high output active pups.

believe it or not your mids NEED to be upped some. otherwise you'll stay 'lost' in the mix.

slash_edit: oh and about the PA thing, let ur vocalist sing through the PA alone and just play ur amps how they are. just EQ his volume to be the same as yalls.

also: low quality PA speakers can play a part in this as well. just as the guys in my praise and worship band. i don't like using the PA systyem AT ALL

+1

And we weren't bashing your amp, just saying that if you're both going to sound identical it's not going to work so well. Mix it up a bit. If you can't get new amps or guitars, that's fine for now, but at least take the EQ advice offered in this thread.

And the PA advice. Those amps are loud enough to hold their own. Scale back. Mic only the vocals and mix it that way.
#16
yea i know timi....when AREN'T you pissed off? LMAO.

jk
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"They call him the 'Sand Spider.' -Why? -Probably because it sounds scary"
*Agile AL3000 Les Paul w/ Alnico IIs
*Randall RM50
*Dunlop CFH
*fellow LEO feel free to give a shout out
#18
Quote by KenG
The louder you play the more sound pressure levels you generate.

Try setting your volumes relative to an unmiked drummer so that he/she can be heard clearly with guitars and bass playing! Then adjust your vocals to be heard above them all. There was also some good advice in earlier responses about adjusting your guitar amp settigns differently to help them stand out from one another.


Yeah I was going to say something similar - seems like a lot for a basement. What does it sound like if you were to take this outside? You are gigging I take it....sorry if i missed something.

Get some different OD pedals or one with and one without, or have one of you use a pedal thru the clean channel while the other only uses the Lead.
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Jul 15, 2008,
#19
Agreed, timi is a character.

Call me Wes.
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#20
i'll drink to that.
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"They call him the 'Sand Spider.' -Why? -Probably because it sounds scary"
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*fellow LEO feel free to give a shout out
#21
Quote by timi_hendrix
Ok, so you ask for help, and flat out ignore it.

Enjoy sounding like a shit group of amateurs then.



i didnt ignore sh*t, i liked my tone the way i had it but apparently i should boost the mids. f*ck you in your pink little as$hole .
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#22
its not like we sound bad, i just wanted to get rid of some noise and hum and possibly stick out a lil more don't be so mean . so heres what i got: mids=important, lower gain a tad bit, aim for a diff sound between amps and aim for difference in overall sound. sound about right?
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#23
yea pretty much. just look at most well known bands that use two guitarists. usually the guitarists use different types of guitars and different amps, and if the amps are the same brand they might be different models or different settings. ANY two amps that are EQ'd the exact same aren't gonna that special together in a band situation, however having one w/ a really crunchy mid-gainy rhythm tone and another w/ a hi gain lead might sound quite fantastic. at the same time, a heavy metal rhythm tone w/ lots of chugga chugga would be finely accompanied by a different type of hi gain lead sound....one that's really smooth and less on the low end frequencies.

easier to just do and hear rather than explain. but like someone said earlier, letting one guy just use the amp's OD for the lead sound and the other use the amp's OD PLUS OD pedal for the rhythm might sound reallly good. vice versa also, try lettin' one guy usin an OD pedal plus amp OD for leads while the other just uses amp's OD for rhythm.

mix it up and try all kinds of things out, it'll prolly be fun finding new tones you didn't know about! and yes...mids are important....
My MAIN Gear
____________
"They call him the 'Sand Spider.' -Why? -Probably because it sounds scary"
*Agile AL3000 Les Paul w/ Alnico IIs
*Randall RM50
*Dunlop CFH
*fellow LEO feel free to give a shout out
#24
Quote by slash_rocks2005

easier to just do and hear rather than explain. but like someone said earlier, letting one guy just use the amp's OD for the lead sound and the other use the amp's OD PLUS OD pedal for the rhythm might sound reallly good. vice versa also, try lettin' one guy usin an OD pedal plus amp OD for leads while the other just uses amp's OD for rhythm.

mix it up and try all kinds of things out, it'll prolly be fun finding new tones you didn't know about! and yes...mids are important....


one of those guys was ME
#25
ok, had practice today, my bass, 7, mids 5, treble 6, gain at either 7 or 8. my other guitarist, bass 3, mids 5, treble 8 and gain also either 7 or 8. we sounded great, so much difference between harmonies, each person stood out so well and yet blended so perfectly. thanks alot guys, now i just have to get rid or the noise behind it all.
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#26
good to hear!!

are YOU the rhythm player? cuz it sounds like you've got the beefier tone out of the two. his settings imply a kinda weaker (not the exact word i'm looking for mind you) overall tone. but i'd rather a strong rhythm and kinda thin lead rather than vice versa.

if you can, see if he'll try uppin the bass just a tad to fill out the lower frequencies. unless the bass get's too flabby.

did either of yall use an OD? that will make a nice 'difference' in the two tones!! down the road you should look into an EQ to further maximize ur settings potential.

and dare i say.....a PHASER?! if you know how to keep the phase low and subtle, it could make a nice rhythm sound especially on clean. just don't try to use it all the time or it'll get old....

do the same w/ lead guitar, mix in wah and delay so your songs keep a fresh diversity in them!! alrite just tips!
My MAIN Gear
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"They call him the 'Sand Spider.' -Why? -Probably because it sounds scary"
*Agile AL3000 Les Paul w/ Alnico IIs
*Randall RM50
*Dunlop CFH
*fellow LEO feel free to give a shout out
#27
i feel like his tone sounds overall better as the higher side anyway, i have an od but only use it as a solo boost, i have an eq pedal actaully but i feel like it just makes what the amp can do but more complex
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