#1
*Disclaimer* This is not a Troll attempt to trick people into buying SS amps.


Today I went into a guitar shop and I saw a kid playing some punk and
some metal. He was on a valvetronix and he was using a Epi LP custom.
I didnt know he was playing a valvestate amp until i looked at him..
This led to a question...Is he gonna clip? he sounded great and he never
did.

Gospel Guitarists and Blues guitarists IMO really need tube amps. Blues and
Gospel music is traditionally known for warm tones. That is just the shape of
the music. There is generally not a lot of distortion..some overdrive, yes..
but when you look at the genres as a whole...the natural characteristics of both
the guitar and the amp shine through. This is vital to the music. Both genres
have a habit of grabbing the listener's emotions and pulling them in. They make
you want to listen and be a therapist of sorts..lol..listen to what the singer is
talking about and contemplate on it.

Metal and Hard rock can be better with tube amps...but IMO it is not required.

Most metal and hard rock has guitarists that use preamped pickups..super high
gain and a wall of effects that mask the original tone of the guitar and the amp.
This has created a "generic" overdriven metal tone if you can say it. Most metal
players use suped up tube amps but the funny thing is that ..alot of metal players
say they want a tube amp because of the warm tone...but you have never
heard anyone say they like one guitarist over another because he had "warmer"
palm mutes. Most of the time the tube sound that they preach about as tone
natzis his not even utilized because of all of the insane effects that drown it out
and mask it.

Most metal guitarists dont even realize they dont need a tube amp because of
the tone. They need it because of clipping levels. We all know that a solid state
amp can't handle the signals that a tube amp can. Alot of guitarists say that amps
have "Crappy tone" when they really don't. The amps just don't have enough power
to allow the player to wail below it's clipping level. Solid states have a habit of the
fizzle out and dying in the middle of really crazy exotic bends. If the amp has a good
core tone..and its clipping level is above your needs it will be a tool that you can use.

Alot of inexperienced guitarists will hear an awesome band and ask what kind of amps they use. Most of the time it is quite irrelevant. Its just generic overdrive/distortion.
When recording a valvestate can be a winner.

I myself prefer peavey tube amps...but I just get tired of all the flaming goin on sometimes.

If you play with distortion a tube amp isnt essential...if you are playing with harmonics and exotic wails and bends that are the sirens of hell that shatter
the demons eardrums...yeah..u cant afford the limitations of a solid state.

Opinions? ..anyone?
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at Jul 20, 2008,
#3
I don't agree about the generic overdriven tone, there is a lot of variety in metal, but your point is still valid.
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#4
Quote by Mudhippy2011
I don't agree about the generic overdriven tone, there is a lot of variety in metal, but your point is still valid.


I understand that wasnt an entirely true statement...but
"generic overdriven tone" ..i was referring to commercial bands that seem
to just come off of an assembly line ever couple years..

I wasnt referring to guitarists that actually put time into their tone..
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
#5
I agree. I can understand people here saying "Don't go MG", but when someone says "Don't go solid state, you NEED tube" it just pisses me off.

Tubes are better generally, but is it worth the extra cash?

There are better solid state amps than there are tube amps too. Roland JC120 anyone? Thats SS. Valveking is tube, and is overrated.
#6
i gues tube amp is not all that important if you are just playing palm muted riffs with scooped tone..
#7
Depends, really, I kind of need that little 'sag' only tubes can provide.
Not all people do need it though, I mean, look at Chuck Schuldiner and Gus G.
RIP Jasmine You.

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#9
Quote by aznrockerdude
Depends, really, I kind of need that little 'sag' only tubes can provide.
Not all people do need it though, I mean, look at Chuck Schuldiner and Gus G.

+1
This is an example of a player knowing why he likes the tube sound.

Its just annoying when people recommend things and flame other things
when they dont even know why they bought what they bought.

Quote by forsaknazrael
I don't think it's always about "warmer tone". It's about the dynamics of a tube amp. It just sounds much more organic, in most cases.

That's not to say there aren't good SS amps..

+1 Good point
...also some ss amps react to picking almost comparable to low end tubes...
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at Jul 20, 2008,
#10
why should i pay for 300W SS to play a small show at 1/3 volume when i can get a 50W tube and have better tone?

like it or not, tube sounds better than SS at every volume other that that of a mouse fart
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#11
Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo
why should i pay for 300W SS to play a small show at 1/3 volume when i can get a 50W tube and have better tone?

like it or not, tube sounds better than SS at every volume other that that of a mouse fart

I wouldn't say EVERY volume, but at gigging volumes, yes.
RIP Jasmine You.

Lieutenant of the 7-string/ERG Legion

Quote by FaygoBro420
Yo wassup, I'm trying to expand my musical horizons if you know what I mean, so can anybody reccomend me some cool Juggalo jazz?
#12
don't agree. Some of the best classic rock distortion tones are the hardest for modelers and SS to replicate accurately. I think SS actually does very well for cleans. There are a lot of differences in metal tones too, and the overtones and harmonics you get with a tube amps are very hard for the modelers or SS to replicate. Just calling it "generic distortion" shows you either don't listen to the genre much, or don't have any respect for it.

One of the best modelers out to date is the Axe FX made by Fractal Audio. It's a $2200 tone machine, and arguably one of the finest to come out in years. There is a waiting list to get this thing. It's got alogarithms to accurately capture the feel and dynamics of tube amps, and does an excellent job of replicating clean and mild/classic rock OD's from some of the most heralded amps in the last 50 years. The only place where it's lacking right now, in almost universal opinion, is in the metal tones.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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#13
i get what you're saying completely. i think what it is is that people see a SS amp and know it's only useable to 3/4 of it's potential before it sounds like garbage- and that's whether or not it's max'd out on gain.

a tube amp, however, can be used to its FULL potential- though a lot of em don't necessarily sound too great when you dime the gain (assuming it's got a master volume, otherwise they're pretty much useable all the way up the volume spectrum) AND volume.

that's what I MYSELF see, buying a SS amp ABOVE your needs just so that you can play something under it's level and not get horrid SS clipping.

i'm not anti-SS, but i'm a hard rock/blues player mostly, so warmth is ESSENTIAL to me, in fact even when i play metal i want that tube sound. i prefer an equal balance of BOTH preamp AND power tube saturation, just b/c that's how i am. i love thickness to my tone.

but trust me, i know EXACTLY where you're coming from and pretty much agree w/ ur statements. i'm sure you're not trying to generalize all heavy rock and metal like it might sound, so i won't pretend to be offended haha.
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#14
Quote by aznrockerdude
I wouldn't say EVERY volume, but at gigging volumes, yes.


didnt say every volume

mine is fuzzy, fizzy and all points inbetween until the volume passes 2.5. it may be only 15W but i can only get t3h k1ll3r tone when the parents are out


worth it though
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#15
Quote by Erock503
There are a lot of differences in metal tones too, and the overtones and harmonics you get with a tube amps are very hard for the modelers or SS to replicate. Just calling it "generic distortion" shows you either don't listen to the genre much, or don't have any respect for it.


I love to play metal as well as classic rock. I love to listen to it.

There are alot of bands out there that do have a generic overdriven tone.
I'm not speaking of every band...but there are alot of bands that you can
cover..one after another with only one high gain amp.

Some metal artists have some of the most unique tones and techniques
of all..but im referring to commercial *Die cast bands* that come off of an
assembly line. Some metal bands some have their own tone. Some players
that play metal dont have their own tone . That comes from drowning
out the original tone of the amp and guitar with insane distortion settings.
Thats what i was referring to. Cranking everything up to 11 until you cant
even tell what kind of amp it is.
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
#16
Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo
didnt say every volume

mine is fuzzy, fizzy and all points inbetween until the volume passes 2.5. it may be only 15W but i can only get t3h k1ll3r tone when the parents are out


worth it though

Yeah but are mouse farts even audible? Do they even fart?
RIP Jasmine You.

Lieutenant of the 7-string/ERG Legion

Quote by FaygoBro420
Yo wassup, I'm trying to expand my musical horizons if you know what I mean, so can anybody reccomend me some cool Juggalo jazz?
#17
Quote by Washburnd Fretz
I love to play metal as well as classic rock. I love to listen to it.

There are alot of bands out there that do have a generic overdriven tone.
I'm not speaking of every band...but there are alot of bands that you can
cover..one after another with only one high gain amp.

Some metal artists have some of the most unique tones and techniques
of all..but im referring to commercial *Die cast bands* that come off of an
assembly line. Some metal bands some have their own tone. Some players
that play metal dont have their own tone . That comes from drowning
out the original tone of the amp and guitar with insane distortion settings.
Thats what i was referring to. Cranking everything up to 11 until you cant
even tell what kind of amp it is.

well, you have to take into account, alot of the "popular" metal bands out have the same producers, and their stuff is getting reamped in the studio. So not only does it sound like the same amps, but it "is" actually the same amps in some cases. Also, it's not as easy as you think to get a great metal tone on recording. It has to have a great powerful tight lowend, and be able to acheive that "insane distortion" without turning into a fuzzy muddy mess, or a beehive of fizz. That all comes down to things like the amp, guitar, and player used to create it.

I will say though, I do agree alot of the cookie cutter bands have the same kind of tone, but that's what is accepted as popular right now, so that's what sells albums.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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#18
Quote by aznrockerdude
Yeah but are mouse farts even audible? Do they even fart?


it was a figure of speech >_>

anyway, point is, if you have it all sweet and cranked, when you roll off the volume you can actually hear the tone crapping up
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#19
^not quite sure what u mean by that. are u saying having an amp cranked and then rolling the guitar's volume back doesn't sound good? or you mean if you were to go from dimed volume to almost no volume (as opposed to the opposite that usually happens when jamming on an amp) you'll hear the tone downgrade?

if it's the latter, i'd put it like this:

having the volume low doesn't sound bad, but it sure doesn't sound as good as when it's cranked. to say it's crapping up isn't quite fair lol, cuz it's just the way a tube amp works.
My MAIN Gear
____________
"They call him the 'Sand Spider.' -Why? -Probably because it sounds scary"
*Agile AL3000 Les Paul w/ Alnico IIs
*Randall RM50
*Dunlop CFH
*fellow LEO feel free to give a shout out
#20
Quote by slash_rocks2005
^not quite sure what u mean by that. are u saying having an amp cranked and then rolling the guitar's volume back doesn't sound good? or you mean if you were to go from dimed volume to almost no volume (as opposed to the opposite that usually happens when jamming on an amp) you'll hear the tone downgrade?

if it's the latter, i'd put it like this:

having the volume low doesn't sound bad, but it sure doesn't sound as good as when it's cranked. to say it's crapping up isn't quite fair lol, cuz it's just the way a tube amp works.


not dimed, just the transition from "high volume"; 3 to "low volume"; 1 it gets fuzzy and muddy

using an OD pedal is noticably better loud too
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#21
I totally agree, some people don't need tube amps.

One of my friends plays through an old SS Crate with a Digitech Metal Master, an EQ, and a little delay, and he gets a better scooped, thrash metal tone than I can with my tube amp and Metal Muff, which is a good thing since he plays mainly thrash metal.

I like tube better because I can get warmer tones with it (Classic rock, blues). If I only played scooped metal like my friend I would be just as well off with an SS IMO.
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#22
I personally like as warm a tone as possible... Warm tone = not hurt ears. You can't really get warm tones with non tube amps. Even with heavier metal, I like having some warmth.
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#23
Quote by Erock503
well, you have to take into account, alot of the "popular" metal bands out have the same producers, and their stuff is getting reamped in the studio. So not only does it sound like the same amps, but it "is" actually the same amps in some cases. Also, it's not as easy as you think to get a great metal tone on recording. It has to have a great powerful tight lowend, and be able to acheive that "insane distortion" without turning into a fuzzy muddy mess, or a beehive of fizz. That all comes down to things like the amp, guitar, and player used to create it.

I will say though, I do agree alot of the cookie cutter bands have the same kind of tone, but that's what is accepted as popular right now, so that's what sells albums.

+15 Level Up!!!

Thanks for your insight..I actually learned something from you.
This site is actually useful at times.
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
#24
Quote by dudetheman
I totally agree, some people don't need tube amps.

One of my friends plays through an old SS Crate with a Digitech Metal Master, an EQ, and a little delay, and he gets a better scooped, thrash metal tone than I can with my tube amp and Metal Muff, which is a good thing since he plays mainly thrash metal.

I like tube better because I can get warmer tones with it (Classic rock, blues). If I only played scooped metal like my friend I would be just as well off with an SS IMO.

Which is not the right way to get a (tubey) metal tone, I might add.
RIP Jasmine You.

Lieutenant of the 7-string/ERG Legion

Quote by FaygoBro420
Yo wassup, I'm trying to expand my musical horizons if you know what I mean, so can anybody reccomend me some cool Juggalo jazz?
#25
Quote by Washburnd Fretz
+15 Level Up!!!

Thanks for your insight..I actually learned something from you.
This site is actually useful at times.

cool man
and I'm not negating your point either, I understand where you are coming from. There have been some great recordings done with modelers, specifically the pod. Guys like Misha from Periphery and Meshug can get some great tones with them. Alot of it is the artist though, as they are tweaking every last tiny minute detail, down to specific humps or dips in the parametric. Alot of mastering is done on the recordings too to get that specific sound.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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#26
Quote by abcdboy
I personally like as warm a tone as possible... Warm tone = not hurt ears. You can't really get warm tones with non tube amps. Even with heavier metal, I like having some warmth.

Bull****.