Page 1 of 2
#1
I've heard of people saying "don't scoop your mids" on an amp, and i was wondering if there are any bands that actually DO scoop their mids.

and what makes scooping your mids bad?
#2
The guitars on "...And Justice for All" had the mids scooped WAY too much to the point where it drowned out the bass guitar. You have to draw a line of how much to scoop and swear to never cross that line.
#3
A lot of bands scoop their mids.

It can be done tastefully on recordings, but in a live band situation you simply won't cut through over the other instruments.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#4
The main problem with scooping your mids is that it makes it harder to cut through a mix. Also, In My Opinion, it just plain sounds bad.
#5
Quote by pwrmax
The guitars on "...And Justice for All" had the mids scooped WAY too much to the point where it drowned out the bass guitar. You have to draw a line of how much to scoop and swear to never cross that line.


that explains why i could never get the right sound when i play and justice for all. i max out my mids (along with everything else)
#6
Pantera = ultra scooped tone

EDIT : It's bad because guitar is a mid-range instrument. If the mids are scooped, the high and lower frequencies will be hard to hear with the drums cymbal, the bass drum, and bass guitar.
Last edited by metalgirl0 at Jul 22, 2008,
#8
Scooped mids is often synonymous with Metal tone.

As others have said, you need mids playing live to cut through the other instruments
Gear:

07 Gibson LP Vintage Mahogany
90-91 Fender MIJ '62 Reissue Strat
Fender Acoustic/Electric
Marshall TSL601 Combo
Crybaby Wah
Ibanez TS-9
Boss Tu-2
#9
Quote by pwrmax
The guitars on "...And Justice for All" had the mids scooped WAY too much to the point where it drowned out the bass guitar. You have to draw a line of how much to scoop and swear to never cross that line.


Dude, there was no bass on that album!
FEED ME MATHCORE

Quote by sashki

I also speak German, except no-one gives a shit.


GOOD MORNING SUNSHINE, AWAKE WHEN THE SUN HITS THE SKY
#10
Quote by metalgirl0
Pantera = ultra scooped tone

EDIT : It's bad because guitar is a mid-range instrument. If the mids are scooped, the high and lower frequencies will be hard to hear with the drums cymbal, the bass drum, and bass guitar.

No. The mids were scooped on the amp. Then a furman pq which was used as a crunch had the mids boosted with an eq in front of it to give it crunch. Exhorder has a scooped tone, it doesn't really cut through and almost every note sounds like a harmonic.
#11
Quote by Dudeman5000
Dude, there was no bass on that album!


Lol I know I swaer no matter how hard I listen I cannot hear a bassline.

I swear James and Lars must have just told the poeple mastering the album to put Newsteads volume at 0
Gear:

07 Gibson LP Vintage Mahogany
90-91 Fender MIJ '62 Reissue Strat
Fender Acoustic/Electric
Marshall TSL601 Combo
Crybaby Wah
Ibanez TS-9
Boss Tu-2
#12
Loosing mids can cause your sound to get muddy, and it won't cut through in a live setting. It'll also take away some dynamics i've noticed. Having TOO MUCH mids can make your sound boxy and nasty, and will loose a bit of dynamics. Finding a happy medium between the two is where tone nirvana lies (at least for me). And not for anything, i like a scooped sound on a clean channel (Mesa actually recommends it with a lot of their amps). With Mesas at least, the midrange actually adds a bit of distortion, and can make your cleans break up WAAAY too fast, so rolling them off is neccesary. Plus, they're mid machines, so scooping doesn't hurt your sound much unlesss you do the Metallica complete and utter no midrange, ...And Justice For All kind of EQ which can just make the guitar sound suck.
#13
Quote by Leper_Messiah_
Lol I know I swaer no matter how hard I listen I cannot hear a bassline.

I swear James and Lars must have just told the poeple mastering the album to put Newsteads volume at 0


If you listen closely during the slow interlude of the title track and the fade in of 'Eye of the Beholder' you can hear a faint growl of the bass. Jason got screwed there and so did we. If Justice had the guitar tones used on Puppets it would tie with it as my favorite Metallica album but overly scooped guitar can get irritating to the ear.
#14
Wait a second, lets all understand that scooped mids means they are turned all the way down to zero. That is the literal meaning of the term.

Also, lets not automatically proclaim that low or somewhat low mid settings are bad or not advisable.
Some amps are naturally mid heavy, and require the amps eq's mids to be adjusted and compensated. Especially if the player is using a very middy sounding guitar or mid heavy Vintage 30 speakers.
My JSX's mids are set to 5 while many 5150/6505 players have theirs at 3-4, and still retain huge midrange heavy crunch tones.
A discerning ear will pick up on these things without being tipped off to them first.
MARSHALL JVM 210H
PEAVEY JSX
KRANK 412
MESA 412
FENDER STRATS
DIMARZIO
CELESTION
#15
Quote by Van Noord
Wait a second, lets all understand that scooped mids means they are turned all the way down to zero. That is the literal meaning of the term.

Also, lets not automatically proclaim that low or somewhat low mid settings are bad or not advisable.
Some amps are naturally mid heavy, and require the amps eq's mids to be adjusted and compensated. Especially if the player is using a very middy sounding guitar or mid heavy Vintage 30 speakers.
My JSX's mids are set to 5 while many 5150/6505 players have theirs at 3-4, and still retain huge midrange heavy crunch tones.
A discerning ear will pick up on these things without being tipped off to them first.

i thought it was just a general term. i'd call mids at 0 "no mids" or "mids at 0" i guess.

other than that i agree mostly, it's up to the ear to discern the actual amount of mids used, not just a label on the knob.
Gibson SG Standard + 18volt EMG-81 & 85
Mesa/Boogie Mark IV + Recto 2x12
Keeley Modded BD-2
Vox V847a
Quote by one vision
Bureaucrats gonna crat.

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2008
#16
Scooped mids can be heard ok on record after a good mixing, but will not cut through onstage.
#17
I think it just depends on what you're playing and the type of sound you wanna get. MOst of the time I am right about half way with my mids..... when my amp is set to vintage I think boosting the mids give it a nice bark... when playing metal however I lower them... but only to the point where it sounds good. I think taking the mids out completely sounds weak and no matter what you play it sounds bad and just a mess of shhhhshshhhshsshhhhhhhhhh.... know what i mean?
#18
I'm not positive, but I think some amps (like my JSX) have "Active EQ" so that when you change 1 knob's setting, it will in turn alter the others. I've only had this amp for a little over a week so I have not really messed with the setting too much, but I read somewhere that ths is true. So an amp like the JSX or XXX, may react totally different to setting the mids at zero than a different amp.
#19
wait so is setting my mids up bad too?
i usually like my mids about 7-9 for distorted and 5-6.5 on cleans
Quote by altoidwithmelon
You dont lose your virginity, you voluntarily misplace it.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
You should bottle up all of your emotions till they become a problem that requires professional help.
It's good for the economy.

http://groups.ultimate-guitar.com/rabidpitweasels/
#20
too little mids = likely you'll get shrikey tinny tone.
too much mids = you can get a boxy 2-dimensional tone.

it's all about moderation and using your ears not your eyes.
Gibson SG Standard + 18volt EMG-81 & 85
Mesa/Boogie Mark IV + Recto 2x12
Keeley Modded BD-2
Vox V847a
Quote by one vision
Bureaucrats gonna crat.

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2008
#21
Quote by Ghold125
don't forget the Master of Puppets album

I prefer to to play with my mids over 5, but when i play along with that album it just sounds plain wrong unless i scoop. In which case i think it sounds fairly good.
"If you want beef, then bring the ruckus." - Marilyn Monroe
#23
Quote by captain_jack
The main problem with scooping your mids is that it makes it harder to cut through a mix. Also, In My Opinion, it just plain sounds bad.


Yeah makes the guitar sound like steel grinding on itself. It's thin and shrill, loses it's voice.

At least that's what happens on the TBX150 if you scoop hard lol. On my Squier practice scooped sounds better than the nasal sound it makes when you have mids on.

For arguments sake I boost mids on my amp...
Quote by sargasm
There are no genres in metal that end with "core."
#24
hat explains why i could never get the right sound when i play and justice for all. i max out my mids (along with everything else)



that must sound horrible
Baron K2 SE 120
MILLS 4x12 Afterburner
Eventide TimeFactor Delays
ISP Pro Rack G Noise Suppressor
BKP Warpig pickups
#25
It depends a lot on the amp. If you scoop a Dual Recto it will sound 2 dimensional, if you scoop a marshall it sounds alright. The difference is the amps natural voice, the recto is already bassy and trebly (thats why the Mesa cabs are loaded with V30's to boost mids) and Marshalls are huge on the highs and mids but not so much on the lows.

I scoop my Splawn and mid boost my framus and run them stereo.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
Gibson Explorer Studio
#27
well everyone, i'm finally back from the FOTB, and i can continue to ask questions.

since being banned, i have lowered my mids to about 5. that's what i usually keep them at, occasionally lowering them to 0. not too often, though.
#29
i never liked really scooped tones, but i used a mxr 10 band eq the other day and got a great scooped sound. it wasnt muddy or fizzy, and the bass stayed tight. i just dont like the sound enough to keep it all the time lol
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


╠═══════╬═══════╣
τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ
╠═══════╬═══════╣
#30
What is this boxy tone of which you speak?
#31
Quote by imgooley
What is this boxy tone of which you speak?


It's the sound of having too many low mids. Makes the amp sound solid state and like really porous and boxy and kinda dry.

Personally, I kinda like that tone.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
Gibson Explorer Studio
#32
Quote by MESAexplorer
It's the sound of having too many low mids. Makes the amp sound solid state and like really porous and boxy and kinda dry.

Personally, I kinda like that tone.

So do I, but I never thought of it as boxy. More like... chewy...or haunting
#33
i think it's cool to use that (boosted mids, lower everything else) in a section of a full recorded song. then you bring back the lows and highs and it's all like

but yeah, i would call that boxy. which could be cool, but i wouldn't want my guitar tone to be permanently like that.
Gibson SG Standard + 18volt EMG-81 & 85
Mesa/Boogie Mark IV + Recto 2x12
Keeley Modded BD-2
Vox V847a
Quote by one vision
Bureaucrats gonna crat.

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2008
#34
Quote by UnsignedRecords
i think it's cool to use that (boosted mids, lower everything else) in a section of a full recorded song. then you bring back the lows and highs and it's all like

but yeah, i would call that boxy. which could be cool, but i wouldn't want my guitar tone to be permanently like that.


When I had that Mark IV I had the GEQ in a W and the bass knob was at like 3-4, mids at 7, and treble at like 8. I like mah mids.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
Gibson Explorer Studio
#35
yer weird...

>_>

<_<

that's cool though, i've just had plenty of recordings turn out sour when i was new to the amp, because i underestimated how middy it already was. i like mids too, just not super mids
Gibson SG Standard + 18volt EMG-81 & 85
Mesa/Boogie Mark IV + Recto 2x12
Keeley Modded BD-2
Vox V847a
Quote by one vision
Bureaucrats gonna crat.

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2008
#36
Quote by UnsignedRecords
yer weird...

>_>

<_<

that's cool though, i've just had plenty of recordings turn out sour when i was new to the amp, because i underestimated how middy it already was. i like mids too, just not super mids


I've never really recorded much stuff, I just go for a good live sound, and I like it nasty chunky.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
Gibson Explorer Studio
#37
I personally devote seperate settings to lead and rhythm. I'll have the mids boosted a little for rhythm and I'll scoop them just a little and turn up the amp for lead cause it gives you a much smoother tone, especially coupled with some Dunlop Jazz picks.
#38
Quote by mmolteratx
I personally devote seperate settings to lead and rhythm. I'll have the mids boosted a little for rhythm and I'll scoop them just a little and turn up the amp for lead cause it gives you a much smoother tone, especially coupled with some Dunlop Jazz picks.


Thats kind of funny, most amps that have a solo boost function usually increases the mids to make it easier to play, although, the loudness of the pick attack may become a problem.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
Gibson Explorer Studio
#39
most bands who scoop scoop with a low bandwidth parametric EQ or reducing a select few midrange frequencies on a graphic EQ, so there is still some midrange left which will cut through the mix - this can be good for separating multiple guitars in a live situation so that listeners can hear both clearly - though arguably, its better to boost these different sections of the midrange for different guitars. But a low Q parametric scoop is fine.

Scooping the mids on an amp is where its bad - the mid knob controls all of the midrange frequencies, and if you scoop them all out, all that will cut through is the harmonic content which is normally having to compete with the rhythm section.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#40
i usually set my bass at about 1.5-2 oclock, mids at around 3-3.5, and trebs around either 2.5 or 4 oclock depending, and idk i kinda like tht tone i dont think it sounds too "boxy"
Quote by altoidwithmelon
You dont lose your virginity, you voluntarily misplace it.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
You should bottle up all of your emotions till they become a problem that requires professional help.
It's good for the economy.

http://groups.ultimate-guitar.com/rabidpitweasels/
Page 1 of 2