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#1
Im looking at several ESP and Jackson guitars. I noticed that there are three main woods between the guitars im looking at. Im knowledgeable about these things but i need some help. Will there be any reall difference between an alder, basswood, or agathis body? I know alder is supposed to be the best of the three and basswood is supposed to be cheap, but i dont want the body type to control which guitar i end up with.

thanks
#2
Basswood is pretty much a cheaper, softer, muddier sounding alternative to alder, and agathis is just terrible. I'd go for alder, but basswood is not a bad choice for a starter guitar.
#3
Basswood is not a bad wood. It is quite neutral and you will find CHEAPER basswood in starter guitars and such, but quality basswood is pretty good (Just ask Satch).
#4
im actually looking for a mid range guitar, its just that with the wood, theres usually other options that are added and the guitar suddenly jumps up about $100-150 in price. Though on the ESP's at least the color options on the agathis bodies have much better finishes
#5
Agathis=
It's not good tone. period.
Alder/Basswood (real basswood, in the Tilia genus)>>>>>>>>Agathis.
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#6
basswood is light and a little soft. so dents easily.
if you get it, that's fine, just keep that in mind.

most people think that agathis is crap, because they only play absolute starter guitars in agathis. so they think, "oh it must be the wodds fault"

made correctly, no, there isnt much difference tonally, in similar guitars.

with that said, it really depends on the specific model you are looking at, please post the model and keep in mind that i persoanlly prefer alder to agathis.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#7
the ESP m-400 and mh-400 and the jackson KE3 along with the wrmg warrior are the alders, though im gonna replace the pickups and if i bought one of those guitars i wouldnt have the money plus they already come with EMGs (cept the ke3) even though i like duncans more. The m-200fm and the mh-200 are the agathis bodied ones, if i bought either of those i would replace the pups because they are significantly cheaper than the alder ones. The basswood body is the Jackson WRXT Warrior, great looking guitar and because of the price i would change the pups.
#8
Quote by yawny
Im looking at several ESP and Jackson guitars. I noticed that there are three main woods between the guitars im looking at. Im knowledgeable about these things but i need some help. Will there be any reall difference between an alder, basswood, or agathis body? I know alder is supposed to be the best of the three and basswood is supposed to be cheap, but i dont want the body type to control which guitar i end up with.

thanks

basswood is cheap stuff that thye make cheap models with. yeah dont buy that unless you have no cash. agathis is no good either. some people like it but a lot of people dont. alder is good for a good trebly sound that people like in metal. another wood is mahogany which is warmer and is also good for metal. alder is more widely used because of its versatility, but mahogany's tone is not replicable.
Jackson RR5 ivory w/ EMG 81/85
Jackson DX6 w/ SD Distortion & Dimarzio Super Distortion
Fender Starcaster Sunburst
Mesa/Boogie DC-3
Johnson JT50 Mirage
Ibanez TS-9
Morley Bad Horsie 2
Boss CE-5

ISP Decimator
Boss DD-6
Korg Pitchblack
#9
^that's pretty much all completely false.


and TS if you are putting in EMGs then wood body type isnt a huge issue anyway.

more importantly, you need to make sure ur bridges arent crap low end floyds.
i didnt take the time to look up these models.
but if you go with an intermediate level guitar, a fixed bridge is usually the best bet.

a bad floyd will make you hate ur guitar.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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Last edited by jj1565 at Jul 23, 2008,
#10
Quote by jj1565
^that's pretty much all completely false.


and TS if you are putting in EMGs then wood body type isnt a huge issue anyway.

more importantly, you need to make sure ur bridges arent crap low end floyds.
i didnt take the time to look up these models.
but if you go with an intermediate level guitar, a fixed bridge is usually the best bet.

a bad floyd will make you hate ur guitar.


i have an ESP M200FM with a floyd...
#12
i dont get it...how does the wood effect the sound of an electric guitar :/
#13
^ please don't start that debate again...

Quote by Iceman 420
Basswood is not a bad wood. It is quite neutral and you will find CHEAPER basswood in starter guitars and such, but quality basswood is pretty good (Just ask Satch).


or suhr.

agreed.

you could probably make the same argument about agathis too (the one jenny made) as it's also used in starter guitars.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#14
Quote by jj1565
more importantly, you need to make sure ur bridges arent crap low end floyds.
i didnt take the time to look up these models.
but if you go with an intermediate level guitar, a fixed bridge is usually the best bet.

a bad floyd will make you hate ur guitar.


+1
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#15
I think the reason most starter guitars use Agathis is because they're mostly made in Indonesia, and agathis is native to that part of the world. It's the "Fender" reason: Wood's cheaper to buy if it's grown closer-that's why Ash and Alder were used by Fender, because they were cheap.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#17
guess it all depends on the guitar. im not going to use emgs, the sound is too sterile and exactly as you said, it nullifies the any difference in tone that there would be. I am getting one with a non floyd trem. I plan on switching it out for an OFR once i get the cash. Im good with body and internals work so none of it should be a problem
#18
ok sounds good.

make sure ur amp is as good as ur guitar to get the most out of the guitar.

good tuners, nice fretwork, low action, sturdy switches, good stock pickups, real wood body.... these are the things to look for when upgrading.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

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#19
yeah, the amp isnt a problem, just waiting for my new marshall half-stack to come in. though the crate half is appealing to me lately...
#20
what model marshall? i'm not a fan of the mg series...
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

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#21
yes, let's hope it's not an MG.
Current Gear:
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#23
Quote by jj1565
what model marshall? i'm not a fan of the mg series...


i'm not a fan of the avt either...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#24
Quote by hminh87
I think Warmoth has a good page for this.
http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/options/options_bodywoods.cfm

Dude, that avatar is epic.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#25
mg1000hdfx. though the crate 212 looks nice too, and the peavey winsor stack sounds good if i got a tube screamer pedal, seeing as its only one channel
#26
Get the windsor. It's more marshally than the MG. Which sounds like bees in trashcan.
Current Gear:
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PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
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Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#27
the only reason i dont 100% want the peavey is that it costs a butload more after getting the pedal and footswitch. and i play metal. is it good for that?
#28
there are a lot of tube combos out there better than the windsor if you arent happy wt it's br00talz.

but seriously, i really think u'll regret getting the mg or crate. i had an mg50. i hated it after a while, and there are so many quality control threads about them, it really seems to be a problem, even if the tone isnt ur main issue.

buyer beware. good luck
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

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#29
im really looking for a stack, if theres any decent stack around the $500-700 dollar range, the main reason i dont want a combo is that i want the option to add on
#30
You Don't Need A Halfstack. Get A Combo.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
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Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#31
most combos can be added on. they have speaker extentions.

and i'm telling you, i've played out and had many friends play out for years now.

30+ tube watts is loud, and even if it wasnt and you want more, most venues mic.

if you absolutely want a stack cause it looks the way you want, then go for it.
but i want you to go into this wt open eyes.

i'm always here. do some research. AT LEAST, search marshall "MG, crap", "mg broken" "mg bees in a box"
stuff like that, before you settle on an amp, you'll want to list on craigs list 6 months from now.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A/GB&C WTLT Lists 2011
#32
body wood makes a huge difference!! its the one thing you cant change. heres what ive noticed from my experience
Agathis=crap, id stay away from it, its really hard to get a decent tone from an agathis guitar
Basswood= mediocre, better than agathis and high quality basswood can actually be ok, especially for drop tunings
Alder=****in love it, crystal clear clean tone, a loud punchy and sharp distorted tone (think COB) goes great with EMGs
Mahogany= also love it, warm as hell, great for well pretty much anything, great thick tone, has a much warmer distorted tone with more low end.
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#33
i'm with jenny/jj1565.

GOOD stacks are awesome. the problem is that good stacks are expensive. I'd rather have a good tube combo, than a piece of crap marshall MG stack.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#34
Quote by oneblackened
You Don't Need A Halfstack. Get A Combo.

Maybe he wants a half stack? I hate people like you.
#35
Quote by Tom_hatton
Maybe he wants a half stack? I hate people like you.

yeah, but in his price range, a stack would be a major fail. We're just helping him out
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#36
agreed. as i said, there's nothing wrong with a good halfstack. just in his price-range, unless he's extremely lucky, he can't get a good halfstack.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#37
Quote by bjoern_swe
yeah, but in his price range, a stack would be a major fail. We're just helping him out

I know, and I agree. But people like that piss me off, they say it all the time, even when the guys have a huge price range.
#38
oh, ok. yeah, fair enough. Just in this instance, it's possible he was saying that for these particular circumstances.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#39
yeah, i really could go for a stack but i guess thats out for now, i know some marshalls have some terrible crap going for them as of late. So what exactly is a GOOD combo in that range? and from what youre say, theres a difference between tube watts and solid state watts? Ive heard people talk like that before but i never really got how 30 tube watts could be any louder than 30 solid state (or whatever, regular) watts
Last edited by yawny at Jul 24, 2008,
#40
they aren't louder, but human ears perceive them as louder. i think that's how it's explained.

if you're after metal, i'd try a used peavey 5150/6505, used mesa f-series, and maybe a used kustom coupe. all combos... they come as heads too, but they'd be over budget i think.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
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