#1
Ok, so I've basically been learning major scale modes recently, and have a question.

Since each mode is just the major scale in a different order, how do they sound different in improvisation? I mean, you don't always start from the root note when you solo in any given key anyway, and you never really just ascend the scale. I'm just wondering how they can give their particular feel when not played from root to root, since they are all just the same notes.
#4
I don't mean in a different order, oops lol, I mean like starting from a different note of the scale.

Like, you've got A major = A B C# D E F# G# A
Then you have the related Dorian mode for a progression in A, B Dorian = B C# D E F# G# A B

which both consist of the same notes.
#5
I belive the difference is that you are playing the major scale of another key.

For example the A major scale might equal a mode but that mode is in a different key. A major and A Lydian are not the same thing, because A lydian will equal the major scale in another key (not sure which one). So when using modes if you want to stay in the same key, the notes will change , A LOT.

hopefully that explains it, im not very good at expresisng my thoughts, hehe.
#7
Quote by Martindecorum
modes aint just notes in different order... thats what makes them a mode. as it consists of different notes

Eg

C Ionian C-D-E-F-G-A-B
C Dorian C-D-D#-F-G-A-A#

i think thats right

I think thats wrong.
The modes of C Major
CDEFGAB
DEFGABC
EFGABCD and so on...
At least thats what i thought correct me if im mistaken.
#8
You also have to remember that some modes overlap - i.e. the C Ionian (major) mode contains the same notes as E Phrygian. Which mode you're in generally depends on the key of the song.

If the song is in C or utilizes C and you play those notes you'd say C Ionian. Play the same notes over an E chord and it'd be E Phrygian.
#9
Yeah, that's what I mean though. Like, in a C song where you want to use a Phrygian mode you would use E. And so on for each note. It's just that I don't see how they can each have specific feels (E.g. Lydian being "dream-like") if they are all just the same notes.
#10
Quote by /-\liceNChains
I think thats wrong.
The modes of C Major
CDEFGAB
DEFGABC
EFGABCD and so on...
At least thats what i thought correct me if im mistaken.


It isn't the notes that stay the same, it's the intervals. As an example, a major scale (Ionian) is whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half. In E -> E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E. The E Major Dorian mode starts on the second interval of E major which makes it whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half, whole. In E -> E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D, E.
#11
Quote by greenelephants
Yeah, that's what I mean though. Like, in a C song where you want to use a Phrygian mode you would use E. And so on for each note. It's just that I don't see how they can each have specific feels (E.g. Lydian being "dream-like") if they are all just the same notes.


It's the intervals. The major scale is generally described as 'happy' and the minor scale as 'sad'...do you hear that when you play them?
#12
Oh, ok, I think I see what you mean. So in E, you would use all of the E modes rather than moving to F# Dorian etc? And base those modes on the intervals.

I think I've misread like a 100 articles lol.
#14
it is all about matching scales to chords

e.g. Em (E, G, B notes) to E Dorian (E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D)

find a scale that has the same notes from the chord youre playing with. the 'color' notes (the notes not from the chord) will harmonize differently than other scales with the same notes as the chord.

Em Penta, E Phrygian, E Aeolian, E Kumoi, E Whole-Half Diminished, E Augmented, E Hungarian Minor. All of these scales will fit with Em chord but will have a different feel because of the other notes.
#15
Yeah, I think I understand more now. I was under the impression that, for like C Major, you had to use the modes of each note.
E.g.
C Ionian: C D E F G A B C
D Dorian: D E F G A B C D
E Phrygian: E F G A B C D E
F Lydian: F G A B C D E F
G Mixolydian: G A B C D E F G
A Aeolian: A B C D E F G A
B Locrian: B C D E F G A B

and like apply each of these in a C chord progression, which confused me because they all consist of the exact same notes as the C Major scale.
#18
Quote by greenelephants
Yeah, I think I understand more now. I was under the impression that, for like C Major, you had to use the modes of each note.
E.g.
C Ionian: C D E F G A B C
D Dorian: D E F G A B C D
E Phrygian: E F G A B C D E
F Lydian: F G A B C D E F
G Mixolydian: G A B C D E F G
A Aeolian: A B C D E F G A
B Locrian: B C D E F G A B

and like apply each of these in a C chord progression, which confused me because they all consist of the exact same notes as the C Major scale.


that works because what ever chord is being played has complimentary notes in the scale, though sounds cheesy.

what sounds cool is playing different types of scales over each chords, so what you are doing is having the melody change keys while the chords are in the same key.
#19
The easiest way to hear what the modes sound like (if you can't make a simple backing track) is to play your low E string and let it ring out (with low gain or clean works best) and then play each of the E modes while the low E rings out. You'll then hear each one's flavor.

Joe Satriani explains this pretty well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTQolymKmDA
#20
Ok, so I should focus more on the chords of the progression that the key of it to find good sounding scales and modes? And mainly use like the WWHWWWH, WHWWWHW etc. etc. etc. idea for working out how to build modes?
#21
Quote by greenelephants
Ok, so I've basically been learning major scale modes recently, and have a question.

Since each mode is just the major scale in a different order, how do they sound different in improvisation? I mean, you don't always start from the root note when you solo in any given key anyway, and you never really just ascend the scale. I'm just wondering how they can give their particular feel when not played from root to root, since they are all just the same notes.


Please go here
#23
Over a C major progression, you use C major, not D Dorian or B Locrian or whatever. A scale is defined by its context, not position or pattern since those are unique to the guitar and theory applies to all instruments. If you play C D E F G A B over a C major progression progression in any order anywhere on the neck, it is C major and nothing else.
#24
Yeah, that's why the whole idea confused me to start with, because I thought of it how you put it and realised that it didn't make sense.

Thanks for the help guys, btw.