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#1
Alright, time for the 18watter to go. Why? Wel it isn't filling it's prupose. I got it as an amp that was to be used when I didn't need the whole volume from the Rocker 30. The problem? The 18watter is LOUDER than the Rocker 30! And attenuated, they don't sound too much alike (the Rocker 30 also sounds better, because of the EQ).

So it's time for it to go. Heck my dad even thought it was a great idea to sell it.

However I do want something that I can from the money of it!

What do I want then?

Well I want a small amp, that isn't very loud. An amp I can run about haflway up easily, preferably without even using an attenuator. Used for band practise, recording and possibly gigs too. How loud is my band? Well our bassist has a 300W Harkte he runs on 1 and the other a Laney TT50 he runs on half (albeit on both channel and master volume) and my Rocker 30 doesn't even go up to 3 when we practise. So we're not very loud as you get.

The tones I want are vintage sounds. Think Cream, AC/DC, The Who and also Joe Bonamassa. I play mostly a Les Paul loaded with Bareknuckle Mules (PAF copies) and sometimes a Strat.

Budget: Uncertain, depends on how much I get. Hopefully I can get about €750 ($1200, keep in mind I live in Sweden, things are expensive here!). Might be less though!

The amps I'm looking at:
Hughes & Kettner Statesman Dual EL84: Looks very promising. I love that you can get Fender/Marshall tones from it and also it doesn't seem overly loud (I hope!). However in the review for the larger ones, they said that the distortion channel had too much gain for classic rock. But the smaller one seems to have less gain. I liked the clips a lot of it, sounded very nice and fat to me! The bad thing is that I haven't found it here and might not be able to try it. It's also a tad bit expensive. Also a big plus is both reverb and loop, something I miss deeply on my Rocker 30!
Laney Lionheart L5-T: I'm looking at the 5W 1x12 combo. I have the 4x10 combo and I thought it was pretty good, but it was a tad bit thin to me, probably because of the 10s. The 20W felt a bit too loud for what I need when I tried it, however I wonder if the 5watter will be loud enough. The amp didn't sound gooduntil it came about halfway, then it really opened I noticed too. This might be easier with a 5watter though. Also it has a nice speaker, which I like. Might be able to try it before I buy it (they have to order it to the shop from another one though). Also like that it has FX loop and reverb. However a concern for me is that it isn't loud enough and that it's quite expensive.
Blackheart Little Devil: A nice little 5watter I liked a lot when I tried it! Had a qutie nice tone from what I remember. Also like that it has an EQ. However I'm worried if it's loud enough. Also dislike the lack of FX loop and reverb, but this might be do-able. Will also be able to afford it without problem!
Blackheart Handsome Devil: Well if the Little Ginat might not be loud enough, this one is worth looking at. However, mgith not be able to try it. Also know very little about it!
Laney VC-15: A small little 15W combo I liked a lot when I tried it from what I remember. Also very light and not too loud from what I remember. However the VC30 is of course nicer from what I hear, but I don't need another 30W amp really. Also I could probably afford it without too much hassle and could put in a nicer speaker, like a Celestion G10 Greenback or so.
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#2
Thing is, isn't the R30 already getting you the tones you want?
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#3
Well to a certain extent. The thing is that it's lacking both reverb and an FX loop and sometimes that is buggering me. Plus it would be nice to have an amp that I can play without having to attenuate, which I do need with the Rocker 30. Plus most of these amps are lighter than the BEAST that is the Rocker 30!
Quote by stratman_13
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#4
Well then, you know, I would wait for the new Epi Valve Senior to come out. 18w, but running on 6V6s to give a slightly more american tone to compliment your EL34 tone rather than mix with it. It also appears to have a tube reverb, good value, comes as a combo (so you can stick the Red Fang in it), has a clean and dirty channel.... Looks perfect. Might even have a loop!
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#5
Might be worth a look. However keep in mind, I might be able to affor dboth the Statesman or the Lionheart, so I'd like to hear about them too!
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#6
the valve senior has a clean and dirty channel?

also, its release has been pushed back, i think.

i haven't tried the statesman... i read those reviews too which said the od was very modern. would be worth a try, but i wouldn't bank on its being what you want.

i like the lionheart- is 5 watts enough, though? and if you stretch to the 20 watter, it's (a) more expensive (and doesn't come in a 1x12, which is annoying) and (b) might be almost as loud as your rocker.

i'm not 100% certain, to be honest.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#7
Well the 20W I did try and I felt it might be a bit loud.

Yeah I read that too about the Statesman, however it was for the EL34 and 6L6 versions. Also if you listen to the clips on their website it sounds very classic.
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#8
I read of the Statesman quad EL84 that it got lots of Classic tones but could also reach some great modern tones when pushed, and it had good vintage cleans.

I think the Statesman dual EL84 might be a good bet also, I think it has a Voxy character to it - and it will handle all the usual Brian May tones and then some more, and also chimey vintage cleans - and then whack the Red Fang in it also? Perfect.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#9
Quote by Gabel
Well the 20W I did try and I felt it might be a bit loud.

Yeah I read that too about the Statesman, however it was for the EL34 and 6L6 versions. Also if you listen to the clips on their website it sounds very classic.


ah that's true, i didn't notice that about the reviews. I haven't listened to the clips either...

and yeah, if the laney is too loud, not much point. 5 watts is (presumably) not going to be loud enough... i could be wrong though.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#10
How about just having a tech put an FX loop in the R30? Then you could get a digital reverb/delay, & set the levels a bit lower on the loop, & that may help "attenuate" a bit. Just a thought ....
I did stuff like that years ago on my '79 Marshall 100W head, & it worked pretty well.
Sorry I don't really know about the amps you listed...
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#11
Quote by riffhog
How about just having a tech put an FX loop in the R30? Then you could get a digital reverb/delay, & set the levels a bit lower on the loop, & that may help "attenuate" a bit. Just a thought ....
I did stuff like that years ago on my '79 Marshall 100W head, & it worked pretty well.
Sorry I don't really know about the amps you listed...
But that won't cure the GAS
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#12
Quote by riffhog
How about just having a tech put an FX loop in the R30? Then you could get a digital reverb/delay, & set the levels a bit lower on the loop, & that may help "attenuate" a bit. Just a thought ....
I did stuff like that years ago on my '79 Marshall 100W head, & it worked pretty well.
Sorry I don't really know about the amps you listed...


Well I can see you train of though there. However it's very hard to and secondly it might not be doable in the combos, because of the lack of space.

Plus I'd rather have a new amp anyway!
Quote by stratman_13
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#13
Quote by MrCarrot
But that won't cure the GAS


Yeah, it's not like me to discourage anyone from buying more amps , but Gabe will buy another amp anyway! The added FX loop is just another option to make the R30 super gig-worthy.
Another option is to have a tech install a variable line-out that encompasses the power stage also, & run that into a separate power amp. I know you guys are probably sick to death of me recommending this setup, but it IS the ABSOLUTE SH!T. Liquid sustain, crunching lows, screaming highs, zero tone loss, full dynamics from power tube saturation, with virtually infinite ways to fine tune the tone. The only trouble is you need a load box (like a Hot Plate or Palmer PDI03) & a power amp, but you can use any power amp. A R30 set up like this would be insane!
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#14
Quote by riffhog
Yeah, it's not like me to discourage anyone from buying more amps , but Gabe will buy another amp anyway! The added FX loop is just another option to make the R30 super gig-worthy.
Another option is to have a tech install a variable line-out that encompasses the power stage also, & run that into a separate power amp. I know you guys are probably sick to death of me recommending this setup, but it IS the ABSOLUTE SH!T. Liquid sustain, crunching lows, screaming highs, zero tone loss, full dynamics from power tube saturation, with virtually infinite ways to fine tune the tone. The only trouble is you need a load box (like a Hot Plate or Palmer PDI03) & a power amp, but you can use any power amp. A R30 set up like this would be insane!
I've been considering that idea, but, don't you lose some of the speaker colouration? What do you run the line out into? I always thought it could be cool to get your, IE, 50w 2xGreenback cab with 50w JTM45, lineout tricky thing and then run that into say... a 100w 6L6 PA, then push the speakers just into distortion? I was wondering how that'd work.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#15
Didn't Slats get the lionheart? He seems to like it.
Feel free to call me Kyle.

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#16
Quote by MrCarrot
I've been considering that idea, but, don't you lose some of the speaker colouration? What do you run the line out into? I always thought it could be cool to get your, IE, 50w 2xGreenback cab with 50w JTM45, lineout tricky thing and then run that into say... a 100w 6L6 PA, then push the speakers just into distortion? I was wondering how that'd work.


You can get however much speaker colouration you desire by simply pushing the volume of the power amp harder. The speakers don't care what's pushing them. The frequencies will be the same.
My line out has a variable output level, & runs into a Lexicon digital reverb/delay unit, then to the input of the power amp. EVH used to run most of his effects between the line out & the power amp, but I've had better luck running everything but the reverb/delay in front of the amp.
Your idea sounds great, but depending on the tone you're after, you may need an OCD or something in front of the JTM. I use one with my Mojave, & it really adds some crispness & life.

Gabe- I knew you'd get something new anyway! You're as much of a gear hoar as the rest of us!
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#17
Quote by riffhog
You can get however much speaker colouration you desire by simply pushing the volume of the power amp harder. The speakers don't care what's pushing them. The frequencies will be the same.
My line out has a variable output level, & runs into a Lexicon digital reverb/delay unit, then to the input of the power amp. EVH used to run most of his effects between the line out & the power amp, but I've had better luck running everything but the reverb/delay in front of the amp.
Your idea sounds great, but depending on the tone you're after, you may need an OCD or something in front of the JTM. I use one with my Mojave, & it really adds some crispness & life.

Gabe- I knew you'd get something new anyway! You're as much of a gear hoar as the rest of us!
Genius. Might try that one day. That could make one of my amp builds (the amp in question being a 3w design) usable for gigging...
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#18
Kyle, have you played a Two Rock? I've never had a chance to try one .
My latest GAS is for a Divided By 13 18/37W head. Just ridiculous dynamics & response.

EDIT: MrC--

Gabe- You know the drill. Try out lots of amps. Have your parents bring you to California on vacation, & try out amps here! Everybody wins!
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Last edited by riffhog at Jul 24, 2008,
#19
^No, but i'm dying to. They are, on paper, my perfect amp. The nearest dealer is 2 hours away, and I'm not even sure if they have any in stock. I'm thinking about making a trip, though.
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#20
if you tought the 18watt was louder than the 30 watt rocker why are you considering buying another small wattage amp.
The 18 watter probly just seemed louder because it broke up faster, and im sure the rocker would have been louder and achieve the same tone if you cranked it a bit.
You have to ask yourself whats ganna be more important for you and your playing style more headroom, or more brake up at lower wattages.
No matter if the amp is still a 10watter its ganna sound louder to an extent than the rocker just because its clipping faster.
I would have to say look into ceriatone clones, or maybe a AC30 or AC15 if you think its to much power.
Or why not just buy a fender reverb tank to go with the orange and buy an FX loop, that would solve some problems.
Oh and i dont know if its out of your price range but definately take a look at thunderverbs preferably used.
But the AC30 would solve your problem for sure, its got reverb and an FX loop in it all you have to do is try it out and see if the glove fits.
Last edited by TheKaiser77 at Jul 24, 2008,
#21
Quote by riffhog
Kyle, have you played a Two Rock? I've never had a chance to try one .
My latest GAS is for a Divided By 13 18/37W head. Just ridiculous dynamics & response.

EDIT: MrC--

Gabe- You know the drill. Try out lots of amps. Have your parents bring you to California on vacation, & try out amps here! Everybody wins!


Must stop GAS!

Seriously ATM I'm gasing for:
65 Amps London
Budda Superdrive
Two Rock Signature Overdrive (the one Joe Bonamassa)
Mojave Plexi 45
Splawn Competition
Divided By 13

However neither of these are in my pricerange or so! Luckily I can not try them either, which would make my GAS worse.

Having done some check up on the H&K, does it looks sweet! Basically like a poor mans boutique amp.

And I've considered the poweramp idea though, already owning an attenuator (Weber, with a line out too!).

Quote by TheKaiser77
if you tought the 18watt was louder than the 30 watt rocker why are you considering buying another small wattage amp.
The 18 watter probly just seemed louder because it broke up faster, and im sure the rocker would have been louder and achieve the same tone if you cranked it a bit.
You have to ask yourself whats ganna be more important for you and your playing style more headroom, or more brake up at lower wattages.
No matter if the amp is still a 10watter its ganna sound louder to an extent than the rocker just because its clipping faster.
I would have to say look into ceriatone clones, or maybe a AC30 or AC15 if you think its to much power.
Or why not just buy a fender reverb tank to go with the orange and buy an FX loop, that would solve some problems.
Oh and i dont know if its out of your price range but definately take a look at thunderverbs preferably used.
But the AC30 would solve your problem for sure, its got reverb and an FX loop in it all you have to do is try it out and see if the glove fits.


Yes the 18W does have a lower headroom, but to me it still sounds way louder than the Rocker 30 on half way up (when both are breaking up!)
Basically I want a SMALLER amp, to compliment the Rocker 30. I did consider the Ac30, but it's 1, out of my pricerange, secondly it's going to be too big anyway and not break up much quicker than the Rocker 30 really.
The Thunderverb is POINTLESS, it wouldn't compliment my Orange and being LOUDER and also heavier weighwise! Plus it's only a head!

I've noticed that wattage is very "ambiguous". Two 15W amps can be very different in their headroom for an example. I want an amp with low headroom that isn't way too loud. I'm wondering if a 5W really is too quiet or so?
Quote by stratman_13
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18watter video demo

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Last edited by Gabel at Jul 24, 2008,
#22
from what your saying 5 watter is the way to go, but dont just look at the usual VJ or BH, look around and maybe youll find something better.
Also if you can try out some old vibrochamps, and look into the new princeton recording amp, they go for so cheap used, and there oh so worth it.
#23
Well the Pricneton Recording is sweet, I've tried it.

Well there is a '72 Vibro Champ not to expensive I've found here.

However I feel that a dual EL84 could work too, some of them aren't too loud at all. Often depending on the speaker. Heck I could almost crank a VC15 without too much hassle in a shop!.
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



18watter video demo

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#24
I just heard some sound clips of that LT5-112, wow!

I also just looked at the price, wow! That's quite a bit for 5 watts.

Maybe you can find a good deal on one used. I'm seriously gassing for one now.
Last edited by lemonsquares42 at Jul 24, 2008,
#25
Well still from what I've gotten the Laney does look awesome, really high quality, even though it has a PCB board, EVERYTHING else is handwired, llike transformers, tube sockets and so on. Also it has a Celestion G12H Heritage speaker, which is VERY nice!

But basically I'm looking between the H&K and the Laney. The H&K has an Eminence, which are very good too!
Quote by stratman_13
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18watter video demo

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#26
^ yeah, the heritage g12H is really nice. i liked it, anyway.

Quote by Gabel
Luckily I can not try them either, which would make my GAS worse.


haha, that's the only thing which saves me too. though unfortunately i've already tried enough to have pretty bad GAS. Just it'd be much worse if i lived somewhere with tons of kickass music shops.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#27
Well i've managed to use a 5w for band practice many times. And that's with the 94db sensitivity 8" speaker - a 100dB sensitivity 12" Heritage G12H would most likely handle it you know. The only reservations I have, are that the amp is SE and therefore will be lacking the odd harmonics of PP amps especially when turned up, and may struggle for headroom just a bit. You really need to be able to try it out.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#28
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ yeah, the heritage g12H is really nice. i liked it, anyway.


haha, that's the only thing which saves me too. though unfortunately i've already tried enough to have pretty bad GAS. Just it'd be much worse if i lived somewhere with tons of kickass music shops.


Yeah, I just found a couple months ago that this small shop 35 miles north of me has tons of boutique amps. Already made 2 pilgrimages there. They have multiple models of Divided By 13, Dr Z, 65, Bogner, Harris, Mesa, Orange, EVH, & a couple other one-off oddities, among others. They even had a used Komet (which was designed by Trainwreck founder Ken Fischer). Very competitive prices on most stuff too.
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#29
ah, i don't think i could survive that.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#30
Quote by MrCarrot
Well i've managed to use a 5w for band practice many times. And that's with the 94db sensitivity 8" speaker - a 100dB sensitivity 12" Heritage G12H would most likely handle it you know. The only reservations I have, are that the amp is SE and therefore will be lacking the odd harmonics of PP amps especially when turned up, and may struggle for headroom just a bit. You really need to be able to try it out.


Headroom? Who needs HEADROOM?!

I barely use cleans, headroom for me is very unimportant.

The good news is that if I'm interested in buying it, I can probably get the shop to order it in and then let it pass if I don't like it.

Well basically a 5W does sound right for me, I want an amp I can crank up without attenuating! I also LOVE all the features, like the kickback. Also I'm used to Laneys and they tend to have pretty good quality. Plus then we'd both be playing Laneys in the band!
Quote by stratman_13
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18watter video demo

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#31
Quote by TNfootballfan62
Didn't Slats get the lionheart? He seems to like it.


I do.

Gabe, it comes down to how much volume you really need. I played the L5T-112 guitar>>cable>>amp in a small, uncarpeted room doing a punk-type thing with a girl on the drums. She was pounding 'em, but still - she's a girl. Anyway, I had the amp opened up almost all the way - about 8 or 9 on both the gain and volume. Definitely cut thru, but I fear I'd've been drowned out if I had to compete with another guitar or keys in there.

Now with your Fulltone 2 to boost the signal further, that might be less of an issue. I haven't had a chance to really experiment with mine, but I'm confident the Sun Lion would really push it volume-wise if I tried it.

It is a very cool sounding amp. Love the tone. Have hooked up the FX loop with nice results. The reverb, sadly, is nothing to write home about - but I'm used to Fender Deluxe Reverb reverb, which is God-like.

Overall I like the amp a lot, but I never would've paid full price for it.
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
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#32
Quote by Gabel
Headroom? Who needs HEADROOM?!

I barely use cleans, headroom for me is very unimportant.



This is why I love you, man !
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#33
Quote by slatsmania
Overall I like the amp a lot, but I never would've paid full price for it.


that was pretty much my impression of it too- i really liked it, but thought it was quite expensive for what it was. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but if they'd made a 20 watt version 1x12, for a similar price to the 5 watter, that'd have been closer to what i'd have considered a good price for it.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#34
^

Slats I can see where you are heading with this! Sadly I can't find any Lionhearts that are used. However still it looks like a high contender. But really I don't play very loud at all. Heck my band would appreciate me having a small amp! I think it probably will be enough. Also I think I will have the right return it if I don't like it!
Quote by stratman_13
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18watter video demo

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#35
I do really like it, but for the price I feel it should have a tube rectifier, tube driven reverb, and maybe a tube driven FX loop as well. For it's full price, there are definitely better boutique options in the US.

But by all means, give it a shot. I mean, it really does sound great!
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#36
^ yeah, pretty much. EDIT: a separate bright switch for each channel would have been what i'd have wanted too.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jul 25, 2008,
#37
Quote by slatsmania
I do really like it, but for the price I feel it should have a tube rectifier, tube driven reverb, and maybe a tube driven FX loop as well. For it's full price, there are definitely better boutique options in the US.

But by all means, give it a shot. I mean, it really does sound great!


I do agree on that point, however there are no "feasible" boutique options here in Sweden for around the same price.

May I however ask you one thing, even though it's larger than an amp, but if there are "cheaper" boutique options which you might be able to send to me? You helped me so well with the pedal and I know it's more to ask for, however over here, things are expensive and there are better choices on the other side of the pond. Actually, you might not even have to ship to me (most shops sells stuff overseas, it's just that Fulltone aren't allowed to shiip overseas). However if you could ship it, I could problbaly get a better deal plus if you send as a gift, well then no taxes!

And I agree on those point btw. I could do without a tube recto, I'd prefer it, but that's ok.
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



18watter video demo

My band

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2009
#38
just watch the voltage if you're doing that, gabe. normally you just need a step-down transformer, but i remember reading in a magazine where one of thd's amp techs said that the step-down transformer technique wouldn't work with their amps (for some reason). you'd need to check that it would work with any amp you were considering.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#39
Well what I was just about to say was that SOME amps come with switchable voltages and of course, I'd be loking for that!
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



18watter video demo

My band

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2009
#40
oh yeah, good point. i think splawns have that.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
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