#1
Just a little change in pace in the gear discussion threads. Still pertaining to gear though.

As you may know large musicial instrument companies such as Marshall amps, Gibson guitars, Ibanez Guitars, and so on and so on, pay big name players big bucks to say they use their gear. Every company endorses artists.

As musicians and/or artists, the term selling out is dreaded and often though of as something negative that discredits your artistic accomplishments and contributions.

Some large examples would be Zack Wylde who has his own signature amp head, Sig les paul, signature guitar strings, Overdrive pedal, and Wah pedal( i may have forgot something).

Another example are dead guitarist such as Dimebag and Hendrix. Dean guitars has launched a massive product line of dime guitars. Same thing with Krank Amps with the Krankinstine. Both of these companies( while im sure they make fine music gear) are capitalizing and potentially exploiting Dimebag's name and death all in the name of profit. Same thing with Hendrix. He has a signature amplitube plugin, Marshall 100 watt head, Wah pedal, among many other pieces of gear.

My point here is what exactly defines selling out these days? Where does taking pride in your equipment stop and selling your name for money start. I personally believe that excessive endorseing is so lame and fake. I highly dought that mitliplatinium artist limit themselves to just one particilur amp all the time. When ever I see Zack Wylde in Guitar World for a Marshall ad or a Dunlop string ad I think its a bit rediculaous. On the other hand, I can honestly say myself that were I in the same position it would be pretty hard to decline a monthly check for $2000 just to say that I played ESP guitars or Marshall amps. Needless to say all the free gear aswell.

To summarize, what do you, the up and comming guitar players and/or veterans of guitar think of todays massive endorsments on gear by famous players? And if you were offered a big endorsement contract, would you take it at the risk of discrediting your music and band(if that even exists anymore).
Framus Cobra
Marshall JCM 900
peavey 5150

Mesa 4x12
#2
Two words: Easy Money.

People will do anything for easy money, no matter what other people think.
IMO, endorsing a few products you actually USE, and thoroughly believe to be superb, is a good thing, as you're helping others to find some really good products.

But, things like Zakk Wylde (Great composer BTW, especially his slow songs) and Kerry King endorsing the MG - that's just greed, and really should be frowned upon.
Sunn O))):
Quote by Doppelgänger
You could always just sleep beside your refrigerator.

Guitar:
- Ibanez S670FM w/ JB
- Fender 'Lite Ash' Stratocaster
- Fender '72 Deluxe Telecaster
- Arbiter LP Jr. Doublecut
Amp:
- Laney VC15

'72 Tele Appreciation Group
RIP DIO
#3
Quote by Simsimius
Two words: Easy Money.

People will do anything for easy money, no matter what other people think.
IMO, endorsing a few products you actually USE, and thoroughly believe to be superb, is a good thing, as you're helping others to find some really good products.

But, things like Zakk Wylde (Great composer BTW, especially his slow songs) and Kerry King endorsing the MG - that's just greed, and really should be frowned upon.


Couldn't had said it better myself
#4
I would also associate a drastic change in style to conform to mainstream to sell more records, instead of sticking with how you really want to make music, even if you dont sell as many albums.

An arguable example is Metallica, who went from thrash to.... St.Anger
Gibson SG Standard
Ibanez S2170FB
Peavey JSX
Marshall 1960A
TEXAS A&M
#6
Quote by SSDaniel105
When it becomes more about the money than the music.

Then you've sold out.


I agree, I mean someone like zakk wylde IMO cares more about music than money, yes he does endorse (bad! lolololol) products, but if I had the opportunity to make more money I would probably take it too! Also metallica probably made more money during their thrash era compared to say load and reload, so lets not crap on them too much!
#7
Interesting is that the one with the most sig is Pete Townshend!

However he's used a lot of his sig gear (such as his isgnature Hiwatts, they were a stpale of his amps back when they first came out). His Schecter sig he helped develop he used during the 80's. The Rickenbacker sig he got during the 90's he's used a bit too. From his modern sigs, he doesn't use the Gibson electrics, but he uses his Gibson acoustic sig. So while he might not use all of it, he uses/used a majority of it!
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



18watter video demo

My band

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2009
#8
Wasn't it Maynard James Keenan that said any musician that makes money with their name, image, or music has sold out?
Not taking any online orders.
#9
Quote by Simsimius
Two words: Easy Money.

People will do anything for easy money, no matter what other people think.
IMO, endorsing a few products you actually USE, and thoroughly believe to be superb, is a good thing, as you're helping others to find some really good products.

But, things like Zakk Wylde (Great composer BTW, especially his slow songs) and Kerry King endorsing the MG - that's just greed, and really should be frowned upon.


pretty much, aye.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#10
here's another thing to consider: a lot of musicians who end up having "signature" gear do so because there is a market for their tone. take Randy Rhodes, for example. how many people have desperately wanted the sound of his modded Marshall but couldn't get it out of any stock head available. the fact that it has a dead man's name on it helps identify it as coming from that lineage. the same can be said for a bunch of signature equipment--from the crappy Digitech Jimi Hendrix and Eric Clapton modelers to the cheese-wedge Octavia clones to, really, anything that gives you a famous tone that would be otherwise impossible to cop. signature guitars are harder to defend because they're the tone-generators not the tone-colorers. most famous musicians just use stock guitars or guitars with slight mods that still sound stock. anyone can get a 3-pickup Gibson LP Custom, and Heil Talkbox, and a JCM 800 and sound like Frampton. the only truly worthwhile signature guitars i've seen are ones like Gibsons Jimi Hendrix Flying V with the custom paint job or Fender's new Billy Corgan Strats--ones that capture something essential to the artist that couldn't be found stock.

the point at which one "sells out" or, in the case of the deceased, gets commercialized is when one floods the market with the same **** in different packaging. when Kerry King puts of few tribal markings on a POS practice amp and sells it. when Zakk Wylde or Dean release 20 different guitars that are all, essentially, the same guitar. a lot of "signature equipment" is the exact same design as the stock equipment, but with a famous person's name and a higher price tag on it.

that's when you've sold out.
Last edited by BloodBlooms at Jul 27, 2008,
#11
Quote by CorduroyEW
Wasn't it Maynard James Keenan that said any musician that makes money with their name, image, or music has sold out?

Well then, doesn't that make MJK a sell out too?
Got on the bus with me daysavaaaa
#12
^Yup, and he wrote a song about it too.

All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb ****.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip ****,
And you bought one.

All you read and
Wear or see and
Hear on TV
Is a product
Begging for your
Fatass dirty
Dollar

Shut up and

Buy, buy, buy, my new record
Buy, buy, buy, send more money
Not taking any online orders.
Last edited by CorduroyEW at Jul 27, 2008,
#13
Its always about money. Many seem to think just a little more and I will be complete and happy, but then the next day well maybe a little more will make things better. Zak may make some good music but the guy would put his name on anything. New dog crap ice cream zak says its delicious. Maybe Im one of the few advertising doesnt work on. I dont buy things because so-in-so says its great. I dont have cable tv at my house so miss out on all the great crap on tv. And just skip over the ads in guitar magazines. Then you got groups like selloutttalica I havent bought any of their albums since the I got suckered into buying the black album. Its a sign of selling out when you need lawyers on retainer to sue everybody for the potential to take one of your nickels. If you havent sold out you probably dont need a lawyer. My soul isnt for sale and never will. But my thinking has been shaped by the knowledge that a briefcase full of money doesnt keep a mortar shell from landing in your foxhole.
#14
Endorsing things that the artist uses (mics, guitars, strings, pickups, amps etc.,) is a good thing, and to a lesser degree the zakk wylde /MG thing could actually be justified if he uses them himself as a practice amp... Not likely, but still.
Your typical Sell-out would do some or all of the following
Endorse a restaraunt chain for the sakes of a bit of dough & free meals (useful)
Endorsing a car company for the sakes of a new motor
Clothes lines (Because yes, of course you use clothes, but seriously, if you wanna promote yourself with threads, just use band T-shirts and such-like), which has the potential to include Artist-owned Clothes labels.
Starting up their own record label, as good in intentions as they may be, will always be an exercise in selling out, because Good business is Theft.
The whole business with using an army of rabid trained lawyers and legal representatives to stop anyone even mentioning you without paying you for the privilege.
TBH though, I kinda like the idea of a signature guitar, amp & Burger King endorsement
The rig:
Gibson SG faded special -> Marshall MG 50/100 (working on a valve amp)
Backup: Vintage AV1
Newcastle United
#15
Allowing your name to be put on any piece of gear that you didn't design is a sell-out to some degree. If you allow your name to be placed on a piece of gear that you believe to be of superior quality (Like the Brian May AC30, or some of the higher end endorsed Strats), I don't have too much of an issue with it - but it's still making money for nothing, as the song goes.

But these clowns putting their names on a Marshall MG, or appearing in Spider ads, or whatever - yeah, they're selling out to a major degree. They're encouraging their biggest fans throw their money away (to fill their own pockets!), and that's just wrong, IMHO.
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#16
As already said Zakk Wylde endorsing the MG which he doesn't even use is selling out. However people like (I know I'm biased but it's true) Joe Satriani and Steve Vai are different, their signature gear and the gear they endorse is gear they actually use, their signature guitars/amps inparticular are unique and used among various genres aswell as their own. They don't lie through their teeth about their opinions of it just to make a quick buck because they actually USE IT.
Gear:
Epiphone SG Standard - Natural Wood Finish + SD Alnico Pro 2 Bridge Pickup
Epiphone Les Paul Standard - Limited Edition Green
Ibanez S470
Blackstar HT-100 Head
Harley Benton 2x12 Vintage 30's
Vox AC4TV
Vox VT15
#17
Quote by CorduroyEW
^Yup, and he wrote a song about it too.

Haha, should have seen that one coming.

But then, why is he so mad at being called a sell out that he writes a song about... how he is one?


That guy confuses me.
Got on the bus with me daysavaaaa
#18
^My interpretation was that the issue was with the hypocrisy behind the people pointing fingers. He knows he sold out to be successful but wanted to make it clear that most of the people making the accusations are guilty of the same thing but they are just too stupid to realize it.
Not taking any online orders.
#19
Quote by BloodBlooms
the point at which one "sells out" or, in the case of the deceased, gets commercialized is when one floods the market with the same **** in different packaging. when Kerry King puts of few tribal markings on a POS practice amp and sells it. when Zakk Wylde or Dean release 20 different guitars that are all, essentially, the same guitar. a lot of "signature equipment" is the exact same design as the stock equipment, but with a famous person's name and a higher price tag on it.

that's when you've sold out.


excellent point.


Quote by slatsmania
But these clowns putting their names on a Marshall MG, or appearing in Spider ads, or whatever - yeah, they're selling out to a major degree. They're encouraging their biggest fans throw their money away (to fill their own pockets!), and that's just wrong, IMHO.


I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#20
Quote by SurfinWithSatch
As already said Zakk Wylde endorsing the MG which he doesn't even use is selling out. However people like (I know I'm biased but it's true) Joe Satriani and Steve Vai are different, their signature gear and the gear they endorse is gear they actually use, their signature guitars/amps inparticular are unique and used among various genres aswell as their own. They don't lie through their teeth about their opinions of it just to make a quick buck because they actually USE IT.


Actually I've seen many pictures of Satch using a Cornford live. But he did in fact help design it, so i give him credit.
Guitar:
Schecter Omen 6 (Dimarzio X2N & Tone Zone)
Amps:
Engl Fireball
Genz Benz G-Flex 2x12 Cab
#21
Quote by Ubershall404
Just a little change in pace in the gear discussion threads. Still pertaining to gear though.

As you may know large musicial instrument companies such as Marshall amps, Gibson guitars, Ibanez Guitars, and so on and so on, pay big name players big bucks to say they use their gear. Every company endorses artists.

As musicians and/or artists, the term selling out is dreaded and often though of as something negative that discredits your artistic accomplishments and contributions.

Some large examples would be Zack Wylde who has his own signature amp head, Sig les paul, signature guitar strings, Overdrive pedal, and Wah pedal( i may have forgot something).

Another example are dead guitarist such as Dimebag and Hendrix. Dean guitars has launched a massive product line of dime guitars. Same thing with Krank Amps with the Krankinstine. Both of these companies( while im sure they make fine music gear) are capitalizing and potentially exploiting Dimebag's name and death all in the name of profit. Same thing with Hendrix. He has a signature amplitube plugin, Marshall 100 watt head, Wah pedal, among many other pieces of gear.

My point here is what exactly defines selling out these days? Where does taking pride in your equipment stop and selling your name for money start. I personally believe that excessive endorseing is so lame and fake. I highly dought that mitliplatinium artist limit themselves to just one particilur amp all the time. When ever I see Zack Wylde in Guitar World for a Marshall ad or a Dunlop string ad I think its a bit rediculaous. On the other hand, I can honestly say myself that were I in the same position it would be pretty hard to decline a monthly check for $2000 just to say that I played ESP guitars or Marshall amps. Needless to say all the free gear aswell.

To summarize, what do you, the up and comming guitar players and/or veterans of guitar think of todays massive endorsments on gear by famous players? And if you were offered a big endorsement contract, would you take it at the risk of discrediting your music and band(if that even exists anymore).


I don't think I'd do it for companies such as marshall or gibson. I'd probaly do it for burns and Orange though, UK businesses. I agree with what you're saying about zakk wylde, he's also got his own pick ups, it's just silly how many 'signature' products he has.
What I want in my rig (Bold = gear I have):
Ibanez SZ-520QM
Vintage VECJ100BK
Epiphone Dot
Laney VC15
Boss GE7
Boss SD1
Zoom G2
#22
Quote by slatsmania
Allowing your name to be put on any piece of gear that you didn't design is a sell-out to some degree. If you allow your name to be placed on a piece of gear that you believe to be of superior quality (Like the Brian May AC30, or some of the higher end endorsed Strats), I don't have too much of an issue with it - but it's still making money for nothing, as the song goes.

But these clowns putting their names on a Marshall MG, or appearing in Spider ads, or whatever - yeah, they're selling out to a major degree. They're encouraging their biggest fans throw their money away (to fill their own pockets!), and that's just wrong, IMHO.


+1

While Eric Clapton might have a modeler, he's had a lot of sginature gear that he has used during the years (heck Pete Townshend now plays Eric's sig Strats!). And as said any piece of gear that the artis himself was involved in developing or so, I don't find too much in selling out.
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



18watter video demo

My band

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2009
#24
Quote by Draconkreuz


But he likes it as the PERUVIAN coffee was so pleasing to taste and had the right boost I needed in the morning for me to prepare for another day of shredding, so surely its not selling out! lol
Sunn O))):
Quote by Doppelgänger
You could always just sleep beside your refrigerator.

Guitar:
- Ibanez S670FM w/ JB
- Fender 'Lite Ash' Stratocaster
- Fender '72 Deluxe Telecaster
- Arbiter LP Jr. Doublecut
Amp:
- Laney VC15

'72 Tele Appreciation Group
RIP DIO
#25
Quote by Simsimius
But he likes it as the PERUVIAN coffee was so pleasing to taste and had the right boost I needed in the morning for me to prepare for another day of shredding, so surely its not selling out! lol



It's teh lies!!1one!
He's cheating us! He drinks only fine hand made coffee , while the coffee his offering us is massivly produced in China not Peru! But d n't tell any1.
#26
I chalk it up to you loose some you win some... Some sig stuff is actually great products but some of it isnt. When you sign with a company its mainly a package deal and there like hey will make your Signature 2000+ head but you have to take all these other sh!t too and put your name on it.. Anyone ever think its not just the artist selling out its the gear companies themselves. When was the last time you saw someone have just a Signature low-end piece of sh!t amp and not a 1000+ on in the line as well? Its marketing as well, the more crap they get there name on the more money the band makes and gets there name out there. And most people dont give a sh!t until the band gets big.. If it was some small town local band getting an endorsement everyone cheers when its someone already established everyone boo's its typical and one of the biggest bandwagons there is...
#27
It's hard being a musician. You guys should all know that. Musicians are poor! If they get an endorsement, they deserve it. Take Stu Hamm, for example. He almost exclusively played Kubrick basses before he was signed onto Fender. I mean, who cares? It's almost impossible to be a musician and make money to live off, especially in this generation where there's digital downloads etc..

I don't think musicians should be bashed because they're endorsing certain products, if they are they probably deserve the money that comes with it.
#28
Although people like Vai, Satch and Petrucci, have not sold out.

They endorse alot of things they USE.


Satch endorses:

Ibanez JS series
Vox Satchurator
Peavey JSX
D'addario strings


Satch uses:


Ibanez JS series
Vox Satchurator
Peavey JSX
D'addario strings
Ibanez Jem 777BK, Carvin DC727, Fender MIM Strat
Mesa Boogie DC5
Xotic BB Preamp, Ts9, BBE GS, Boss DD-6
Weber Mass
Morley Bad Horsie 2
Ask me any questions about my gear!
#29
What would you do if someone paid to hold a guitar

Did you stop listening to zakk wylde becuase of an adversisement.
80's Fender Jazzmaster
1976 Gibson L6s
Epiphone sheraton
Late 60's Univox High Flyer Custom Deluxe
Vintage fendr twin
Fuzz Face
Zakk Wylde Wah
Last edited by hendrix4934 at Jul 27, 2008,
#30
Quote by hendrix4934
What would you do if someone paid to hold a guitar

Did you stop listening to zakk wylde becuase of an adversisement.

exactly,there is noone here that would not accept a free rig just bcause of commerciality.
#31
i gibe joe satriani credit because he does look to put a lot of care in his amps and guitars sigs but the one that annoys me is james hetfields esp sig he used it like once nd is purley for profit. as far as sig guitars go i dont see whata wrong with thehigh end ones like clapton rory gallager and srv as they have been produced to show care and honour the players who play them but when u get like 200 pound or doller guitars from artists it does seem like selling out
#32
to me sellling out is when you endorse a product without caring whether its any good or not and just doing it for the money. on the other hand, if you happen to need the money then thats fine, but the chances are if you're famous enough to be used for advertising purposes you don't need the money they give you to do it.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.