#1
I've heard about putting a patch cable going from your send into your return inputs of your effects loop and it's supposed to make your amp sound better.

Is this true and why does it work (if it's true).
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#2
I've heard it to work and be recommended for the Marshall DSL/TSL series, so I assume it would work on other amps. As for why your guess is as good as mine
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#5
I'm going to try it tomorrow (it's late here). I look forward to seeing the results if it changes.
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#6
The added capacitance from your patch cable will probably roll of just a little of the high frequencies. It would be barely noticeable, but might make the amp sound a little less harsh in the high end. If you have one, you can try it. Try a patch cable. Try a long cable. Try a cheap long cable. You might be surprised at the difference a cable can make...
#7
I think I've heard of it being used with the Marshall TSL/DSL and maybe Peavey XXX. I think it might have something to do with the signal being boosted for the effects loop and somehow that boosted signal is better (although that's just a guess) - I don't think it'll work for every amp, but I guess it's worth a try.
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#8
Your description is a bit incomplete. There is the 4 cable method that puts part of the FX in the loop and part in front of the amp. This works if you have a multifx with loop and configurable FX chain. Since you refer to the return of the FX I assume that you are talking about this.

The other method involves putting FX in the loop of the amp. The theory is the same. FX like delay, reverb, modulation (chorus phase) are best placed after distortion. Since the preamp of the amp can usually provide distortion it's best to put the above mentioned FX in the loop. Sometimes loop audio levels are at line level. If they are then the capacitance of your cables will have less affect. However, the shortest cables are usually the best.
#9
^I think the OP is talking about just running a single cable and "closing" the FX loop. This is a trick that also works well on the VOX ADxx series.
#10
Yep, although both tricks (well the second one is not a trick really, it's what the FX loop is there for) fly135 described involve the FX loop, they're not what this thread is about.
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#11
We had a little discussion like this over in the Only Vavleking Thread last week where someone told us to try it. I tried it with my 112 and could have sworn it cleaned up some of the muddiness, especially at low volumes, and added clarity but I haven't had much time to mess with it since.

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#12
It'll have different effects on different amps; so yeah, just try it. I know on the Fender Concert I had, the effects loop had level controls on it so that you could run a patch cable accross it and use those levels controls to dial in more gain. It was pretty cool.
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#13
all it does on my VC30 is add a little bit of extra volume from the preamp, controllable by the effects level knob.
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#16
My guess is that you can get more boost, or a tiny bit of rolloff of highs, but i would think that most amps that have anything special would be amps with a parallel loop.
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#17
well, i don't know how to read schematics or anything but maybe someone else does.

i don't notice a difference in volume, and it is really hard to explain (if it is there at all lol).

it's like it has more gain and clarity at same volume and less muddy (Valveking 112 here).

this is why i want to test it by taking the plugs in and out quickly so I can keep everything else the same.
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Jul 28, 2008,
#18
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH

i don't notice a difference volume, and it is really hard to explain (if it is there at all lol).

it's like it has more gain and clarity at same volume and less muddy (Valveking 112 here).

Well, yeah - if you boost the signal before it hits the poweramp, you wouldn't really get that much more volume I think. It's just like turning gain up a bit more - you might get a bit more volume but not really anything you would notice very easily. The dB boost in the signal just adds more gain, not volume - the poweramp adds the volume.


...at least that's what I think is what happens.
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#19
well i did that with my b-52 at112 last night and i discovered that turning the level knobs for the return and send will also make my amp go down in volume which now im able to crank the amp and use the send return knobs as somewhat of an attenuator. its actually pretty cool cus i get the cranked sound of my amp at bedroom levels
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#20
Quote by xenolith42
The added capacitance from your patch cable will probably roll of just a little of the high frequencies. It would be barely noticeable, but might make the amp sound a little less harsh in the high end. If you have one, you can try it. Try a patch cable. Try a long cable. Try a cheap long cable. You might be surprised at the difference a cable can make...


OK bumpy. There is a differnece with my VK.

Are you saying a longer cable is better?

Why? Just curious.

I've been trying to go shorter.
#21
I know this trick does alot for the tone of VKs, tightens stuff up, and it deffinately makes a difference with my VC. Sounds a bit fuller.
#22
I tried it on my TSl60 and it gives me a volume boost which works good for clean and dirty channelss.
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#23
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
OK bumpy. There is a differnece with my VK.

Are you saying a longer cable is better?

Why? Just curious.

I've been trying to go shorter.


A longer cable will (typically) have a greater capacitance than a shorter cable. This inherent capacitance forms what's called a low-pass-filter, rolling off some of the high frequencies. It might be above the audible range, but for it to have the most effect you'd want a cable with really high capacitance - not the sort you'd usually want for a guitar cable. What this is probably doing is 'smoothing out' some of the distortion generated before the effects loop by removing some of the really high frequencies.

Now, there could be other reasons for the change in sound. If by plugging a cable into the effects loop the amp sends the signal through extra circuitry, this would also account for the difference. It's really hard to know without seeing the schematic. This 'extra circuitry' explanation is certainly true for some of the amps being discussed here. If you're getting a volume boost, then there's some extra circuitry being 'switched in' somewhere. From the descriptions here I'd say that's what's going on with the VK. In which case a shorter cable is better, cause you'll get less noise.
#24
So, if I put a short patch cable in my FX loop (which IIRC is parallel, or "side chain" as the manual likes to say) of my VC15, would it reduce a small amount high freqs (or would a longer cable, according to posts in this thread say, do that job better), even though only 50% of the signal would go across the FX loop?

Or would doing this be pointless?
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#25
Probably pointless, but you can always try.

Where a long cable really makes a difference is from your guitar to your amp. Try a 50m cable vs a 1m cable, and you'll notice the 50m cable makes your guitar sound a little dull and lifeless. That's the high frequencies being rolled off.
#26
Quote by xenolith42
Probably pointless, but you can always try.

Where a long cable really makes a difference is from your guitar to your amp. Try a 50m cable vs a 1m cable, and you'll notice the 50m cable makes your guitar sound a little dull and lifeless. That's the high frequencies being rolled off.


Yeah, I might try. Who knows if anything interesting may happen.
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#27
this could be helpful for solos to give you a kick in your volume..
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