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#1
Hey pit, it's me again, CoreysMonster drunk at 3 o'clock in the morning.

I recently bought the CD "Nothing" from a band called Meshuggah. Most of you probably haven't heard of or like them, but anyway, there is a song on that CD called "Straws Pulled at Random" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6VerKdcrOQ ), and the entire song, especially the last half is so amazing, in my eyes, that I get goosebumps everytime I listen to it.

However, everybody I show the song to, even metalhead buddies of mine, says that I'm weird for liking that kind of stuff, and that you shouldn't even call stuff like that music.
I know two people who like the band, one is an awesome guitarist, the other an awesome drummer.

Does anybody else feel that, if they play an instrument, they are somehow drawn towards strange music that is unappreciated by the vast majority? That for some reason we can hear and find beauty in forms that non-musicians cannot hear? That because of our "talent" we are a separated group of people who cannot go to a club without complaining to themselves that all the music being played is complete crap, no matter how popular the song is (IMO)? (exceptions are MC Hammer and the dude that made "I like big butts") I think that being a musician is a double edged sword. It's incredibly self gratifying, but at the same time it's a curse, because you actually realise HOW crappy most music is (IMO), and your advanced musical taste separates you from non musicians.

thoughts? comments?

EDIT: maybe this is why many of us spend so much time on UG, because this is the only place we can say "dude I'm feeling so aeolian minor right now" and have people actually understand what we mean?
Last edited by CoreysMonster at Jul 27, 2008,
#5
I think you're an idiot and it's not the booze talking.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#6
Yup.
You seem to make more sense while drunk.

Listen to Sober by Tool.

And Meshuggah does rock.
Too bad many people can't appreciate their music as much...
#7
Meshuggah pwns
And i feel, since i started playing guitar, yeah ive learn to apreaciate certain aspects of music that probably most non musicians couldnt/cant, wich is why most my friends say "metal is all screams and noise".

And when i tell someone certain song/music is crap (wich indeed is), most of them say "uh everyone listens to this, uh mtv plays this" and all that ****, and saying that i say its crap because i dont like it, when indeed it is crap.
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why not, i started using the zakk wylde boomers and now every third note i hit is a pinch harmonic


Last edited by Popsai at Jul 27, 2008,
#8
Quote by Xiaoxi
I think you're an idiot and it's not the booze talking.


why? do i sound like an elitist asshole?
#10
And i've also started to appreciate well produced music much more since i learned music production myself.
I just listen to music in a much different way now.
#11
Yup, I agree with you there, TS.

My mom and non-musical friends give me a lot of crap for being too judgemental about music and other peoples taste in music. But if the music I hear is crap, from a musical point of view, I can't help but point it out.

Also another thing that has happened to me since I started to make music is that I have a lot of trouble listening to a song as a whole. I always pick out a certain instrument or melody and listen to it. But I can't really hear them all as one solid mass of music like I did before I picked up the guitar. Does anyone else have that problem?
#12
Quote by Seryaph
Yup, I agree with you there, TS.

My mom and non-musical friends give me a lot of crap for being too judgemental about music and other peoples taste in music. But if the music I hear is crap, from a musical point of view, I can't help but point it out.

Also another thing that has happened to me since I started to make music is that I have a lot of trouble listening to a song as a whole. I always pick out a certain instrument or melody and listen to it. But I can't really hear them all as one solid mass of music like I did before I picked up the guitar. Does anyone else have that problem?


yup so do i.

I'm always concentrating on one instrument, or the vocals, but rarely everything at once.
#13
meh. its all a matter of preference. why is more technical music better than bumpity-bump club music? everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

i think too many times musicians become arrogant in their tastes in music and condemning music they deem crappy.

ill listen to what i want, and you listen to what you want.
Remember through sounds
Remember through smells
Remember through colors
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-Modest Mouse, "Novocaine Stain"
#14
Quote by CoreysMonster
why? do i sound like an elitist asshole?

Yes. Normally I have no problem with that because they know they're being elitist assholes. However, you are a different kind of elitist asshole. You're the kind that thinks that you are actually right and that your elitism comes from the inevitability and inherent nature of your status as something higher than you actually are.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#15
I think it's that kind of thinking that can breed elitism in musicians. Hell, I think you, Corey, could become a Future Breed Machine.

...



EDIT: Ah, looks like others agree with me.

If we class Tool as weird, my dad got me into Tool and he isn't a musician.
#16
meshuggah win.

just turned a friend of mine on to them today

another one in the supercounting metal masses!
------

Shwiggity.
#17
Quote by Seryaph
Also another thing that has happened to me since I started to make music is that I have a lot of trouble listening to a song as a whole. I always pick out a certain instrument or melody and listen to it. But I can't really hear them all as one solid mass of music like I did before I picked up the guitar. Does anyone else have that problem?


Plus motha ****in' one. All I hear is guitar and lyrics. And even then, I don't really remember lyrics unless I listen to the song over and over.
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#18
Quote by NoLaurelTree000
meh. its all a matter of preference. why is more technical music better than bumpity-bump club music? everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

i think too many times musicians become arrogant in their tastes in music and condemning music they deem crappy.

ill listen to what i want, and you listen to what you want.



Yeah a while after I first ''became a musician'' I went through a period of condemning stuff that was to simple - TBH I became an elitist bastard.

Now more often then not I'll prefer simple music to complicated crap. Although I agree with TS that musicians are more receptive to complicated stuff.
#19
Quote by Seryaph
Yup, I agree with you there, TS.

My mom and non-musical friends give me a lot of crap for being too judgemental about music and other peoples taste in music. But if the music I hear is crap, from a musical point of view, I can't help but point it out.

Also another thing that has happened to me since I started to make music is that I have a lot of trouble listening to a song as a whole. I always pick out a certain instrument or melody and listen to it. But I can't really hear them all as one solid mass of music like I did before I picked up the guitar. Does anyone else have that problem?

I actually don't have that problem much.
As learning music production, most of the times i listen to the song as a whole listening how well/or not well every instruments fits in with one another in the song making it complete.

But then if i wanna zone in on one particular instrument, thats no problem for me either. I can easily pick out the guitar, bass or drums or anything n zone in on that one instrument.

Seriously, learning music production really really helps you to listen to music in a completely new way in which you can listen, analyze and appreciate music in a much better way!
#20
Quote by Seryaph


Also another thing that has happened to me since I started to make music is that I have a lot of trouble listening to a song as a whole. I always pick out a certain instrument or melody and listen to it. But I can't really hear them all as one solid mass of music like I did before I picked up the guitar. Does anyone else have that problem?

I have that too xD
Most times listenning to songs ill for example, focus on the drums and start doing sounds with my mouth and moving my arms xD
And most times when theres a solo in a song, i usually listen and focus on the rythm part, wich ends up pretty awesome
Quote by Reincaster
I once got shocked by a spider amp.

I got powers like spiderman did, except I model everyone else's powers poorly.


Quote by shredhead22
why not, i started using the zakk wylde boomers and now every third note i hit is a pinch harmonic


#21
Quote by af_the_fragile
I actually don't have that problem much.
As learning music production, most of the times i listen to the song as a whole listening how well/or not well every instruments fits in with one another in the song making it complete.

But then if i wanna zone in on one particular instrument, thats no problem for me either. I can easily pick out the guitar, bass or drums or anything n zone in on that one instrument.

Seriously, learning music production really really helps you to listen to music in a completely new way in which you can listen, analyze and appreciate music in a much better way!



Are you studying music production at school? I am interested in learning to produce.

EDIT: I mean, I know what you are talking about, I can hear how the instruments work together, or compliment each other. What I can't do is hear the song as a solid mass of music.
Last edited by Seryaph at Jul 27, 2008,
#22
its just your opinion, while I don't enjoy listening to club or rap music, I also don't enjoy listening to rock that have singers yelling so hard that its not even a voice anymore. Stop thinking that what you listen to is the only "good music" because other people are always going to have different opinions.
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Seriously...


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Dude, you are like the coolest dude like.. EVER!
#23
Quote by Xiaoxi
Yes. Normally I have no problem with that because they know they're being elitist assholes. However, you are a different kind of elitist asshole. You're the kind that thinks that you are actually right and that your elitism comes from the inevitability and inherent nature of your status as something higher than you actually are.



not at all. I'm not saying that being a musician makes me better than anyone else (sorry if I made it sound that way) What I meant was this: It's kind of the way that I can't appreciate watching football, it just doesn't appeal to me and I've never really gotten into it, so I can't say which team is better or what actually qualifies as good football. If someone isn't into music, and can't appreaciate things like technical proficiency or rythmic beauty in songs less mainstream, then that doesn't make them less of a person, they are simply not into music much.
Maybe I'm expressing myself in a bad way, but the only thing that really bothers me is that I have few people that I can actually talk about music to, where you can go "here, listen to this part, isn't the layering of 7/8 and 4/4 awesome?" without them looking at you like you're nuts :P
#25
Quote by CoreysMonster

Maybe I'm expressing myself in a bad way, but the only thing that really bothers me is that I have few people that I can actually talk about music to, where you can go "here, listen to this part, isn't the layering of 7/8 and 4/4 awesome?" without them looking at you like you're nuts :P



Thing is , I know what that means, and I can pick it out in a song, but the thing is when people say stuff like that to me I can't help laughing at them and thinking that they're just trying to show off.
#26
Quote by Seryaph
Are you studying music production at school? I am interested in learning to produce.

Nah, i did a year long part time course which ended last summer. I learned all the basic concepts and practices there. Recording music, producing it, sound engineering n stuff. All the basics.
Then since then i've been just teaching myself. You don't really need to go to a school to learn music production. Its good to go somewhere where you can learn the basics, but once you've gotten hold of the basics, you can move ahead by yourself.

Just like you don't quite need a teacher to learn to play the guitar. Or once you've learned the basics like chords, tabs, fingering n all, you can teach rest of it yourself or from the internet, books n stuff...

But trust me, once you've learned production n trained your ears to it, you can pick out so much more stuff in songs than you did before. Like its no longer just notes n rhythms, you can clearly pick out the individual effects on every instruments, the layering of the instruments, panning, things like compression n other dynamic features so much more better.
Especially when you're listening to really well produced bands like Tool, Meshuggah, NIN, Isis n the likes..
Last edited by af_the_fragile at Jul 27, 2008,
#27
Quote by Surfer Rosa
Thing is , I know what that means, and I can pick it out in a song, but the thing is when people say stuff like that to me I can't help laughing at them and thinking that they're just trying to show off.


+12/8 going into 13/16

I don't often hear a football fan streaming out technicalities when they talk about football, either.
#28
i like metal as much as the next guy but cmon Meshuggah and bands with vocalists like them are just too funny to take seriously. these are some grown ass men making some growling noises its just too funny to see that and also a little sad. but dont get me wrong at least they have some sort of melody in their music and they do know how to play their instruments but thats about it
#29
Quote by Surfer Rosa
Thing is , I know what that means, and I can pick it out in a song, but the thing is when people say stuff like that to me I can't help laughing at them and thinking that they're just trying to show off.



well i know what you mean, but I think you can often tell when someone is genuinely enticed or just showing off
#30
Quote by af_the_fragile
Nah, i did a year long part time course which ended last summer. I learned all the basic concepts and practices there. Recording music, producing it, sound engineering n stuff. All the basics.
Then since then i've been just teaching myself. You don't really need to go to a school to learn music production. Its good to go somewhere where you can learn the basics, but once you've gotten hold of the basics, you can move ahead by yourself.

Just like you don't quite need a teacher to learn to play the guitar. Or once you've learned the basics like chords, tabs, fingering n all, you can teach rest of it yourself or from the internet, books n stuff...



What school offered the course? Can you give me some more info on that course? It sounds really interesting.


Quote by Deliriumbassist
+12/8 going into 13/16

I don't often hear a football fan streaming out technicalities when they talk about football, either.



You have never heard a football fan talking about the strategy their team or a certain player is taking?
#31
Quote by Deliriumbassist
+12/8 going into 13/16

I don't often hear a football fan streaming out technicalities when they talk about football, either.



well, if I told you "hey don't you think that part in Schism is awesome where they have the 12/8 on guitar going against the 7/8 on the drums?" (just a random example), would you think I'm just saying that to show off?
#32
Quote by larrythelefty
i like metal as much as the next guy but cmon Meshuggah and bands with vocalists like them are just too funny to take seriously. these are some grown ass men making some growling noises its just too funny to see that and also a little sad. but dont get me wrong at least they have some sort of melody in their music and they do know how to play their instruments but thats about it

....

lol
#33
Quote by CoreysMonster
not at all. I'm not saying that being a musician makes me better than anyone else (sorry if I made it sound that way) What I meant was this: It's kind of the way that I can't appreciate watching football, it just doesn't appeal to me and I've never really gotten into it, so I can't say which team is better or what actually qualifies as good football. If someone isn't into music, and can't appreaciate things like technical proficiency or rythmic beauty in songs less mainstream, then that doesn't make them less of a person, they are simply not into music much.
Maybe I'm expressing myself in a bad way, but the only thing that really bothers me is that I have few people that I can actually talk about music to, where you can go "here, listen to this part, isn't the layering of 7/8 and 4/4 awesome?" without them looking at you like you're nuts :P

I know what you're saying: Because you are a "musician", you have more insight into the technicalities of music, which leads you to become more fascinated with more technical, less mainstream, "better" music that non musicians just simply cannot begin to fathom. That's why they're into mainstream music while you, a musician, listens to "real" music. Your frustration comes from the harsh reality that non-musicians cannot masturbate over music theory that you apparently know so much about; you have no one to circle jerk with.

No matter how innocently you put it, this train of thought is moronic.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at Jul 27, 2008,
#34
Quote by larrythelefty
i like metal as much as the next guy but cmon Meshuggah and bands with vocalists like them are just too funny to take seriously. these are some grown ass men making some growling noises its just too funny to see that and also a little sad. but dont get me wrong at least they have some sort of melody in their music and they do know how to play their instruments but thats about it


Wow. Lol. I might sig this if I have room.
#35
Quote by CoreysMonster
well, if I told you "hey don't you think that part in Schism is awesome where they have the 12/8 on guitar going against the 7/8 on the drums?" (just a random example), would you think I'm just saying that to show off?


Yes. Mimicking the drums or the guitar line is sufficient enough.
#36
Quote by larrythelefty
i like metal as much as the next guy but cmon Meshuggah and bands with vocalists like them are just too funny to take seriously. these are some grown ass men making some growling noises its just too funny to see that and also a little sad. but dont get me wrong at least they have some sort of melody in their music and they do know how to play their instruments but thats about it


Quote by Reincaster
I once got shocked by a spider amp.

I got powers like spiderman did, except I model everyone else's powers poorly.


Quote by shredhead22
why not, i started using the zakk wylde boomers and now every third note i hit is a pinch harmonic


#37
Quote by Xiaoxi
I know what you're saying: Because you are a "musician", you have more insight into the technicalities of music, which leads you to become more fascinated with more technical, less mainstream, "better" music that non musicians just simply cannot begin to fathom. That's why they're into mainstream music while you, a musician, listens to "real" music. Your frustration comes from the harsh reality that non-musicians cannot masturbate over music theory that you apparently know so much about; you have no one to circle jerk with.

No matter how innocently you put it, this train of thought is moronic.



Question. Do you believe in music that is "objectively" better to other music? Do you believe that a musician can appreciate "good" music more than a non-musician?
#38
Obviously musicians can appreciate factors in music that someone with no ear can't...

Not that I hear those factors in that song, but yeah, you know
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#39
Quote by Seryaph
What school offered the course? Can you give me some more info on that course? It sounds really interesting.

Well it was here in Dublin. This place called the Sound Training Centre. They do a part time introductory sound-engineering course. Enough to get you going.
Train you on ProTools, Cubase, Reason etc. Studio work like recording bands, different types of mics n positioning them, recording on a analogue mixing desk then mixing and bouncing the mix on a CD. Then as your progress it gets more technical about sound desiging and dynamics, using effects n editing n processing the music. Different type of connectors n basically all the basics about sound engineering and production. Song analysis and ear training. So if you open a production magazine like Sound on Sound, you'll understand all that the guys are talking about in there!
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