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#1
I just finished watching the movie again, and whilie I've never seen it in it's entirety (I always start at the part where he's having dinner with Paul Allen) I've always asked myself, did he really commit the murders or is it all in his head? His lawyer doesn't believe him and he then starts to talk about in his head, there's also a subject about it on wikipedia.

What do you guys think?
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
#2
I don't know, I find it hard to believe he could run naked covered in hooker blood and NOT be caught by the police.
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#3
I personally don't think he committed the murders and the facts for that theory seem more plausible than those who say he did
#4
I think he imagined the whole thing. I was sold on that idea when the atm asked him to feed it puppies/kittens.
#6
I thought it was all in his head because whenever he would reveal he was some kind of killer/psycho they would all dismiss it and not listen to him.
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#8
Quote by primusfan
it's in his head.

also, i want you to clean your vagina.


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#10
There's an opposing theory that (on the surface) he was so similar to Paul Allen, and the rest of his corporate peers, that the police failed to lead it back to any one person.
#11
Yeah, obviously there is no doubt he is delusional and psychotic, and the part with the ATM machine obviously proves that

here is the text from wikipedia:
There are two common interpretations regarding Patrick Bateman's acts of violence in the film. One is that the murders he commits are in fact real, but the self-obsessed and presumptuous nature of the people surrounding Bateman permits him to escape responsibility. For example, Patrick frequently confesses to people, and they either do not notice or hear something else. Frequent cases of mistaken identity also seem to work towards such an advantage. The final scene at Paul Allen's apartment is another clue, as it has been freshly painted and carpeted. The woman showing the apartment shares an uneasy moment with Bateman, insinuating that the building owner cleaned up the mess and disposed of the corpses in order to sell the apartment more easily. The greed, materialism and shallowness of the wealthy high-society leave Bateman "unable" to get caught, in spite of his attempts to confess.

The other interpretation is that some or all of the murders and debaucheries merely take place within Bateman’s imagination, like a darker, more sinister Walter Mitty. This interpretation is supported by the growing surrealism in Bateman's crimes as the movie progresses. In his final crime spree, a kitten inexplicably walks up to him while he is at an ATM; the ATM then demands that he "Feed me a stray cat." After confessing to his lawyer over the phone that evening, Bateman discovers the next morning that his lawyer thought it was a joke, and, in fact, does not even realize that he is Bateman, mistaking him for a different faceless businessman with his firm. Additionally, after murdering Paul Allen, Bateman drags him out of his lobby in an overnight bag, leaving an enormous trail of blood that inexplicably disappears moments later as he stuffs the bag into a cab. Lastly, Patrick's lawyer claims to have had dinner in London with Paul Allen long after the murder, though this may just reflect his inability to distinguish between financiers, as displayed seconds earlier when he misrecognized Bateman.

On the DVD commentary, screenwriter Turner's interpretation is that Bateman does in fact commit a few murders but aren't as glamorous as the movie depicts. For example she states that the prostitutes in reality wouldn't be as attractive and he wouldn't have killed one with a chainsaw.
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
#12
Quote by grunger
No it's not in his head, in the second one, the chick in that is obsessed with patrick bateman, THE SERIAL KILLER, so i think he did.


True but the "sequel" (and this term should be used VERY loosely) was a straight to dvd pile of ass
#13
Quote by Tomoo666
True but the "sequel" (and this term should be used VERY loosely) was a straight to dvd pile of ass


And in one of the lectures in the sequal, im pretty sure is on pat bateman. So i think he did them.
#14
Yeah but my point is the sequel should not be considered canon because it's a quick cash in on the originals cult status and has nothing to do with the author of the book which the movie is based on views of Patrick Bateman
#15
The sequel doesn't count. It has no basis (or quality for that matter).

The first one is based off a book, which (if I remember correctly) also never makes it clear.
#16
"feed me a stray cat"

haha, um.... of course its in his head..... but that is one sick movie

advice --> dont see this right after "The Dark Knight"..... it lowers ur thoughts of Christian Bale

i seriously did watch both the day Batman came out and i was thoroughly disappointed in the second..... there was no point to "American Psycho"...... yes a man could consider killing a bunch of *****s, but i felt like i was watching Bale play grand theft auto or somin

killing several hookers - 1 star
shooting at the cops - 2 stars
blowing up the cops - 3 stars

and so on.....
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#17
Quote by shadowsofbodom
"feed me a stray cat"

haha, um.... of course its in his head..... but that is one sick movie

advice --> dont see this right after "The Dark Knight"..... it lowers ur thoughts of Christian Bale

i seriously did watch both the day Batman came out and i was thoroughly disappointed in the second..... there was no point to "American Psycho"...... yes a man could consider killing a bunch of *****s, but i felt like i was watching Bale play grand theft auto or somin

killing several hookers - 1 star
shooting at the cops - 2 stars
blowing up the cops - 3 stars

and so on.....


Wow.

I'm sorry, but are you stupid?

Clearly you missed the whole point and message of the movie.

Try reading the book... if that isn't too much of a strain for you.
#18
hmmmmmm i never put too much thought into this topic.....i think both arguments make sense....i think he did kill some and the faceless business me were so similar no one noticed when they got killed. i think some of it was fantasy though. just his imagination combined with what he really wants to do makes him delusional that he did kill all those people when he may have only killed a few
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that'd be slightly creepy if i didn't find it so amusing.
#19
Quote by Delanoir
Wow.

I'm sorry, but are you stupid?

Clearly you missed the whole point and message of the movie.

Try reading the book... if that isn't too much of a strain for you.


i understood the movie quite well, its just about what goes on inside a mentally unstable man's head when he has a mediocre job with a bunch of people that act all the same

i would read the book if i had a fascination with books about psychotic killers, but i have to have much more depth to keep me focused on a book

sorry if i may have seemed a bit unintelligent to u, but the whole scene where he goes on a killing spree after having killed christy with the chainsaw was so cheesy, (funny, but very cheesy) it looked like it was straight from a video game

if im still missing the message..... its because im not a complete lit nerd, so im very very sorry
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#20
Quote by shadowsofbodom
i understood the movie quite well, its just about what goes on inside a mentally unstable man's head when he has a mediocre job with a bunch of people that act all the same

i would read the book if i had a fascination with books about psychotic killers, but i have to have much more depth to keep me focused on a book

sorry if i may have seemed a bit unintelligent to u, but the whole scene where he goes on a killing spree after having killed christy with the chainsaw was so cheesy, (funny, but very cheesy) it looked like it was straight from a video game

if im still missing the message..... its because im not a complete lit nerd, so im very very sorry


That's a part of it, yes.

Another part of it is a critical, and satirical, look at the "yuppie" generation. Privileged kids from the 80's who became wealthy adults in the early 90's, mostly through inheritance. Many having no work ethic or any sense of reality or moral compass. They spent ludicrous amounts of money on fashion, drugs, and luxuries, not knowing what else to do with it. And being in jobs where they really having nothing they need to do, they spend all their time with these things, and competing with each other to see who can do so with the most extravagance.

It's also a look into the mind of a sociopath, from a different perspective. Not only from their point of view, but in someone who from the outside is "perfect." Attractive, smart, wealthy, successful. But from the inside, we see him for what he truly is.

A quote, from the movie.

"My pain is constant and sharp, and I do not hope for a better for anyone. In fact, I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape."
#21
i love this movie. i want to watch it right now. when i first saw part i thought they were doing some sort of rip off of 'Psycho' because the name....Bates vs Bateman...plus the title....so it kinda aggravated me...but i watched the whole thing and its one of the best movies ive seen. theres so much to wrap your head around and theres so much strange and subtle humor. (the killers favorite band is the talking heads i believe)
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that'd be slightly creepy if i didn't find it so amusing.
#22
Nope, I think it was in his head. The way the ATM tells him to kill, and he fires the odd few shots at the panda cars, and they blow up. Plus, at the start when he says to the barmaid 'That's for ****ing ugly bitch. I'm going to stab you, and play around with your blood.' and she has no reaction whatsoever... Plus suffereing next to no consequences too.
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#23
Yeah, I guess it was in his head.

But on another note, while I watched the Dark Knight, when I saw Christian Bale, all I could think about was American Psycho, but not just because of his character, because he plays both of them, but I just really though that he played Bruce Wayne the same as he did Patrick Bateman, I don't know why though, but that's the sense I really got from the movie
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
#24
Yeah, that kind of mysterious personality, but still cool... That voice etc.
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#25
Quote by Delanoir
That's a part of it, yes.

Another part of it is a critical, and satirical, look at the "yuppie" generation. Privileged kids from the 80's who became wealthy adults in the early 90's, mostly through inheritance. Many having no work ethic or any sense of reality or moral compass. They spent ludicrous amounts of money on fashion, drugs, and luxuries, not knowing what else to do with it. And being in jobs where they really having nothing they need to do, they spend all their time with these things, and competing with each other to see who can do so with the most extravagance.

It's also a look into the mind of a sociopath, from a different perspective. Not only from their point of view, but in someone who from the outside is "perfect." Attractive, smart, wealthy, successful. But from the inside, we see him for what he truly is.

A quote, from the movie.

"My pain is constant and sharp, and I do not hope for a better for anyone. In fact, I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape."


i find it really ironic that we both have COB references..... and they used that quote more or less in one of their songs, i forgot which, but it is a good line

when u really look at it, the movie really is a great example of the effects of getting paid loads of money to do nothing, i did enjoy their comparison of business cards, ha

i guess it was more satirical than i first realized, but i still do not really appreciate the writer's "humor" in slaughtering so many people with unique items

i do understand exactly wat u r going at, but i was just distracted from the real symbolic aspect of the movie by the ridiculous massacring, thats all
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Last edited by shadowsofbodom at Jul 28, 2008,
#26
Read the book for christ's sake. It explains a lot that the movie does not.

I believe they all happened. The book, IMO, supports this, especially considering the ending.
#27
Quote by TDKshorty

But on another note, while I watched the Dark Knight, when I saw Christian Bale, all I could think about was American Psycho, but not just because of his character, because he plays both of them, but I just really though that he played Bruce Wayne the same as he did Patrick Bateman, I don't know why though, but that's the sense I really got from the movie


I caught that funny similarity, too.

However, when Bruce Wayne was in the company of people other than close friends, that was an act as well. In public he (Wayne) puts on a facade of the aloof billionaire playboy in order to draw himself even further away from any possible connection to Batman.

Like when he crashed the Lamborghini, and pretends to be clueless about saving Reese's life. And then asks if he should go to the hospital, when the Joker has just threatened to blow it up to all of Gotham.

Quote by Seryaph
Read the book for christ's sake. It explains a lot that the movie does not.

I believe they all happened. The book, IMO, supports this, especially considering the ending.


+1
Last edited by Delanoir at Jul 28, 2008,
#28
I've heard various statements including ones from Ellis that lean towards the murders actually happening. Of course, neither the book nor the movie gives a definitive answer so Ellis remains the only one who really knows.

The best explanation for the murders being real is that they did in fact happen because the movie/book is supposed to be a satire on the complete self-involvement and loss of identity associated with yuppies in the 80s. No one cared enough to notice, stop and/or alert someone to Bateman's behavior. His lawyer laughs at his confession and then doesn't even recognize him in the restaurant at the end, showing that no one even cared enough to take note of who Bateman really was, much less what he was doing. This sense of lost identity also helps him get away with it, because someone claims to be sure that they had lunch with Paul Allen in London, even though Bateman killed Allen, showing that these men can't even tell the difference between everyone else around them. That also supports why Bateman does kill, because he can't handle his meaningless life, then at the end cracks because he realizes no matter what he does, he'll never be free from it. This, care only for yourself attitude, also explains Paul Allen's apartment at the end of the movie, rather than alert someone of the atrocities taking place there, some realtor instead decides to hide the whole mess away and sell the apartment for a tidy little profit. It's been often stated that although the ATM machine revealed that Bateman's sanity was deteriorating that doesn't mean he didn't proceed to kill the shit out of everyone.

My take is that, though the earlier murders are, in fact, real, the sequence starting with the ATM machine is a dream sequence displaying Bateman's mental breakdown and culminating in his confession, which was, in my opinion, real.
#29
Quote by andyd93
Nope, I think it was in his head. The way the ATM tells him to kill, and he fires the odd few shots at the panda cars, and they blow up. Plus, at the start when he says to the barmaid 'That's for ****ing ugly bitch. I'm going to stab you, and play around with your blood.' and she has no reaction whatsoever... Plus suffereing next to no consequences too.

Even he seems shocked when that happens. The way he just looks at the gun, like "wtf?!?"
#30
Bale suits that sort of deranged persona. I saw The Machinist on FilmFour the other night, and he was brilliant in it. Looked terrible in it though, intentionally of course.
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#32
Quote by Corpus
I also found Bruce Wayne to be sorta Batemen-esque.


Hey Paul!


Hmmm maybe not...
#33
Best quote: "You're a fucking ugly bitch, I wanna stab you and play around with your blood."

Bale delivers it so perfectly.

Also, I find the most disgusting thing about Bateman's character to be his preference of Huey Lewis over Elvis Costello.
#34
If any of you have read the book and were fans of Bret Easton Ellis, it would be clearer. The book was amazing, the movie was very average.
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#35
I watched the movie last friday and although i thought it was brilliant,
I was confused about the same thing too.

I think he just imagined most of it in his head. As the movie progressed he started to get more and more sick and everything started to get more surreal. Everyone ignored him when he used to say he's sick and feels like killing someone or has killed people. The atm asking him to feed the stray cat was weird. He killing the old lady and the cops being there at exactly the same point. Another thing to notice was all the streets were surprisingly empty. Then he blows up two cop cars with just two 9mm bullets is just impossible! And then he goes on a freak killing spree and the cops are right on his back, you see the chopper aimed at his apartment. Then next morning he seems to have gotten away with all clean.

Another thing that makes me think he was going more and more nuts was when his secretary looks up his diary. At first all his drawing and small and more abstract. But as she progresses through the diary, his drawings keep getting bigger and more disturbing until they cover the whole page and become absolutely crazy. Showing how Bateman has been becoming more and more crazy over the days.
Then the last words Bateman says in the movie about how his pain is now permanent and he wants to inflict it into everyone. It shows how he has gone complete nuts as the movie has progressed.

The whole movie keeps getting more and more surreal as it progresses. And to even consider the coke he was doing. I think it was all in his head.
#36
i dont know man, i need to read the book. my sister said it was 100000X more descriptave in the murders for instance it would go into detail about him ****ing the corpses for hours. she said it was basically 300 pages of snuff porn. why would they go into that much description if it was fake. i think at the beginning it was real. the first lawyer he killed was probably real seeing as a detective wanted to know what happened to him, but after that he probably just imagined them, i mean he blew up a police car in one shot and massacred 5 people and didnt get caught. then he dropped a chainsaw on some lady. that he was probably imagining. It kind of has a double meaning, on one side its a psycological thriller, but its also a commentary on the greed of americans at the time, like the part where the lady painted over all the blood and was selling the apartment he hides the bodies in.
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#37
also he liked phil collins.
The Mitch Clem formula
1)make jokes about rancid and NOFX (as if they dont already make fun of themselves)
2)make obvious punk puns, possibly related to food
3)make fun of Rancid and NOFX again
4)??????
5)PROFIT (and an army of internet fanboys)
#38
I believe he did not.
prime reasons are:

When he is dragging Paul Allen's body out of his apartment; in one shot, it shows a blood line coming from the bag, and the door manager looks right at it and nods at Bateman. Then in the next shot, the trail of blood is gone.

In the scene before he has his breakdown on the phone, running the streets
committing murders; the ATM tells him to feed it a cat.

In the same scene; right after his first murder of the evening, the cops literally, immediately show up.

In the same scene; he runs into a building, where he kills the door manager, and some guy in the elevator, and then some guy in the revolving door. He leaves the building, and then less than 20 seconds later, enters another building, which looks exactly the same as the one he just left. The second time, he checks into the building, goes up, and calls his lawyer.

In the same scene, he blows up a police car with about five shots of a pistol, he even looks at his pistol like WTF

Late in the movie, when he is going back into Paul Allen's place, he notices it is stripped clean of everything inside, and is up for sale; he looks in the closet where he used to keep the bodies, but there are none there, and the woman he talks to mentions nothing of them or anything else related to murders that happened there.
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Last edited by GizmoKaKa at Jul 28, 2008,
#39
Remember they all called each other by the wrong name, and a different name each time

So yes, he did, everybody who was killed was confused with someone else as no one actually knows anyones name.
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#40
Movie was pretty alright but the satire gets kind of... hollow after about 20 minutes of it.

Bonfire of the vanities is much better in a similar-ish vain.
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