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#1
I always find it interesting when I meet other guitarists and say things like:

"im self taught" does this actually mean they just found a guitar laying arond and then magically became good...?

or i ask them a simple question like: "what chord is that or what scale are you using" and they reply with a "I dont know" and it makes me wonder how much of this is lies...

also as a guitarist myself I get very protective of what i learn and how long it take to learn some more difficult pieces and feel robbed when it took me some long study of a particular song/tabs and then someone who wants to learn it starts asking about how to play it and then I show em and there off and running with the song without putting in the sacrifice i have to learn it...how do others feel about this?

Also when i have chorded up my song set and spent many hours/days arranging my song list and then someone sees this and then says "oh can I photocopy them" and i feel a little ripped off because they want to do this and if they where half as serious as i am about putting a set list together they would do it for themseves...its probably laziness!

I suppose the key question is how do you define a self taught vs. taught guitarist? Does a self taught guitarist mean no lessons ever or what...? how much ego is tied up in creating a perception that people didint have lessons and they think this is something to promote and shows people they are some sort of musical prodigy...or better then the taught guitarist?

cheers
shaggs
#2
It means that some people have a musical ear and dont need to be trained into having one.

They main way I learned everything I know is by reading tabs of my favorite artist and deciding how to manipulate what they do into something of my own.

I'm taught my self and I can play alot of things better by just hearing them than the people that have had lessons and have seen multiple tabs. The downside is, I don't really know what I'm playing. I dont know what scale I'm using, what key I'm in, or what note every fret represents, but I deal.
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#3
Well i was self taught until a few weeks but self taught is not the correct term i think. I used various books, internet and sources to learn guitar. So in a way no guitarist is self taught.
Let's go back to five billion bpm and see how good i am.
#4
im taught, im still in lessons actually, for a year now, i know so much more than my 'self taught' friends, and i learned way quicker, because i get excercises which help me, where as they think they're too good for lessons
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#5
its called natural talent dude. some ppl just rly have an ear for music and can pick up all the chord/scale nuances easily. I have 2 friends like that and yeah its annoying as hell but they usually show me how they pick up on it so ican get an idea of how 2 play it by ear.
self-taught means they took the time to find the material they needed to learn (most likely via internet) and learnit by themselves instead of having a teacher show it 2 then. Some ppl can just learn better that way, others just have that natural talent where they can figure it all out without the assistance of a teacher. It all comes down to how u prefer to learn and how easily u can pick up the material. One is not necessearily better than the other, but one of them might to put more work into it 2 get really good at it
#6
a self taught guitarist does not mean no lessons at all, they usually have had a few lessons but then they just started teaching themselves.
#7
The thing about self taught guitarists is they're not really self taught. They all have either read books in which case the author teaches them, seen instructional videos in which case the instructor teaches them, or read articles online. Then again, they could've done neither of those three in which case they probably suck.

It can be irritating struggling on a piece when someone new to the piece comes along and picks it up in half an hour. Keep in mind that they could've been playing longer or focusing on playing in a style which that particular piece demands

IE. I've been playing guitar for two years but I can barely finger pick the beginning parts of Fur Elise. I wouldn't be surprised if someone who has been playing for six months could finger pick Fur Elise as there is a good chance he might be dedicating most of his practice to finger picking, however, I could almost guarantee that when it comes to improvising using a pick I would be better than him since that is mainly what I do when I play.

Also, don't forget that there are different "types" of learners. Some people learn best having examples shown in front of them, some people learn best having it explained to them verbally, while others learn best by having something they can read and reread. The self taught guitarists aren't really self taught they just use other learning techniques than one who learns from an instructor.

I'm self taught but I plan on taking classical guitar lessons in the future once I get my classical guitar.
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#8
i am self taught and taught i take guitar lessons from my neighbor who is an awesome guitarist but he plays alot of blues and old rock and roll which is cool and i learn alot great stuff but theres stuff he doesnt know how to do like sweep pick and tap and stuff and i had to teach myself and i also taught myself when i first started playing guitar i think you need to balance it out and i dont tell people what modes and chords im playing because its annoing like if i rip a sick lead i dont want some fag to be like oh what r u playing that in and then there gona try to get you to teach them and those kids are anoing but to the point nothing makes up for practice if u teach yourself or get taught
#9
I am "self" taught, in that I didn't ever have a guitar teacher, or any mentor. Personally, this is a regret, more than an ego boost. I take little pride in not having a teacher, and have had to spend hours studying music theory and everything chord/scale related on my own. I has worked out well for me, but by no means would I ever brag about it. If I had a teacher, I would do such things as holding my pick "correctly", as opposed to between my thumb and middle finger. I just find it easier to sweep pick with my hand at that angle, and it leaves my index free for right hand tapping. Little technical details like that are all that separate me from the "taught" guitarist, but it doesn't make either of us better - or give either of us any good reason to boast or brag about something other than merit.

I don't think many people will tell you that they are self taught in order to emphasize their virtuosity. If anything, those who have spent money being taught are more inclined to promote this possibility - they have the resources for it through their teacher, and often a host of certificates to back it up.

As far as your vendetta against photocopiers goes, I can provide very limited feedback other than to stress their convenience in the modern workplace.


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#10
My folks let me have my first guitar at 15. It included a booklet on the basic chords,etc. They said i could learn this way but could not afford to pay for lessons. So I used the book, then learned from a friend who was taking lessons. Is this considered self-taught? Don't know and at this point don't really care (i am now 44). I did afford to take some lessons in my twenties but I only took them to learn the proper techniques(holding the guitar and finger placement) and scales. I still am not into the theory per se, but understand there is value to it.
I guess the point I am trying to make is when it is you learn an instrument it should be something you enjoy doing and at least get the basics down. After that you learn your own technique and style, which,who knows, could become the template for someone else to learn.
But to answer your question will sort of be irrelevant, as I can assure to you even the great, TAUGHT players do things differently to achieve their own style.
PS; I used to have that same "used" feeling when people took the knowledge I gained for their own use, But when I hear them play I hear their style, not mine. And I am content with that.
#11
its funny how when ppl say self taught everyone thinks that they just knew it, like it was in their brain at birth. That's bs. but it is pretty funny. self taught ppl usually just prefer to learn on their own, but they stilll learn from another source (books, dvds, etc). they just prefer to do it without a teacher.
#13
i like to say im self taught, but really im just too cheap to pay a teacher. haha and yea it takes me hours to learn somthing that a teacher could teach in 10 mins. but i really do prefer to just sit and watch youtube stuff then just practice that over and over. there is def. a difference in taught and self taught players. self taught can play stuff yes, but they really dont know how to play a guitar... they dont know what the 7th fret g string is called. and when im with somone who was taught im really impressed, cuz they do know stuff like that. so i guess what im saying is taught guitarists are much more impressive.
#15
Well, if a decicated guitarist spends quality time with a competent teacher, he's going to progress faster than without one.
#16
Well I'm a self taught guitarist. I haven't taken any guitar lessons but I took piano lessons when I was younger so I learned all the piano theory. Piano theory and guitar theory are very similar and at the same time, they are very different. I still had some things that I had to learn via music books, but for technique and general playing ability, I did it all myself. As far as tabs go, I started out learning with tabs but now I don't use them too much. Now I mostly just use tabs to give me the key signature. Or if there's a really fast solo, I'll use tabs but other than that I try not to use them.

However, unlike some other self taught guitarists I know, I don't claim to know everything about how to play, or anything like that. Can I still name almost any chord? Yeah but I can't do it as fast as someone who did take lessons. I'd sill have to think of all the notes that are being played while someone who has taken lessons might just recognize the shape and know it in a second. I just have to work at it more I guess.

Right now though, I think I'm a bit too far gone to take lessons anyways. They probably wouldn't do much for me other than help out with knowing the notes/chords better. I've been playing 7 years (about that anyway) and so if I'm using improper technique or anything, I don't really think there is much that a teacher could do. I'd have to learn everything all over again. And for me, my technique works. It's a bit strange, but then again so is Marty Friedman's.
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#18
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She is referring to the computer software Rosetta Stone that is used to teach foreign languages
Indeed. I actually own the basic Spanish one. Though I've never used it, I'd like to be fluent is Spanish some day, except I'd like to skip the learning and get to the fluency part.

Anyway, self-taught means exactly that. You're teaching yourself what a teacher would through various resources. No one just messes around without any idea what they're doing and sounds good! You can be self taught and still have the knowledge of someone with a PhD in music theory.

For instance, I'm a science student in college. I might take a Philosophy class to satisfy a humanities requirement, but I could read a lot of philosophy on my own and develop an understanding of the field far beyond what is covered in "PHIL 101," ourely by studying independently and being slef-taught.
#19
^ yes, i was actually considering "getting" that software

thats how i would define self taught vs. taught.
#20
Quote by shaggz
"im self taught" does this actually mean they just found a guitar laying arond and then magically became good...?

They didn't magically become good. They can put in the same or sometimes even more of the effort you, me, or anybody puts in.
or i ask them a simple question like: "what chord is that or what scale are you using" and they reply with a "I dont know" and it makes me wonder how much of this is lies...

What lies?! If they were lying they would make up some fancy sounding name or chord, which then you know they were lying. If they don't know, they don't know. Teach them if they're willing to learn.
also as a guitarist myself I get very protective of what i learn and how long it take to learn some more difficult pieces and feel robbed when it took me some long study of a particular song/tabs and then someone who wants to learn it starts asking about how to play it and then I show em and there off and running with the song without putting in the sacrifice i have to learn it...how do others feel about this?

Wait... what? So you're feeling robbed because you put in effort to learn a song someone else wrote, and then you show them how to play it? Thats pretty selfish, even more so considering you didn't even write the song. So what if a person learns it faster than you, or it comes to them easier? What you should really be feeling is the satisfaction of putting hard effort in to learn something, and now you have the reward of playing it, and learning things along the way (or at least thats what I feel.)
Also when i have chorded up my song set and spent many hours/days arranging my song list and then someone sees this and then says "oh can I photocopy them" and i feel a little ripped off because they want to do this and if they where half as serious as i am about putting a set list together they would do it for themseves...its probably laziness!

Pretty much the same thing as my previous paragraph. What do you mean they were half as serious? They might even be more serious then you, just wanting to add on to their own song list. If that happened to me, I would simply say "Oh here you go. Have you go your own song list?" If they don't, then I would help or assist them in making their own (if they were willing to) as well as giving them my list, with advice.
I suppose the key question is how do you define a self taught vs. taught guitarist? Does a self taught guitarist mean no lessons ever or what...? how much ego is tied up in creating a perception that people didint have lessons and they think this is something to promote and shows people they are some sort of musical prodigy...or better then the taught guitarist?


There have been several times where I've seen self taught guitarist who are better than taught guitarist. Then there's the taught guitarist who are better than self taught. What really depends is the dedication of the instrument, and how passionate they are about it. Even THEN, its useless, because music isn't about being better, its about being satisfied. A campfire guitarist can have the same satisfaction as a jazz guru or a shred genius.

Why must you generalize and look down upon self taught guitarist?
DANNY

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#22
im not laughing! i know its supposed to be good, thats why i want to get it. i was at the term "getting"
#24
Quote by shaggz

I suppose the key question is how do you define a self taught vs. taught guitarist? Does a self taught guitarist mean no lessons ever or what...? how much ego is tied up in creating a perception that people didint have lessons and they think this is something to promote and shows people they are some sort of musical prodigy...or better then the taught guitarist?

cheers
shaggs

A self-taught guitarist teaches his or her self. A taught guitarist has lessons from a teacher. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the second part of this paragraph. But I think you're asking how much ego a self-taught guitarist has to become good, advocate self-teaching, impress others by how "good" they are for becoming skilled despite the fact that they were self-taught.

If that's what you're asking, I should say that it takes a bit of ego for anyone, self-taught or not, to say that he or she is a musical prodigy to impress people, and I've seen a few people talk about how good they are, and they aren't self-taught. Case in point!

The thing is, most guitarists work hard to become better guitarists. Whether they are self-taught or not, hard work is required. Yes, it's true that some self-taught guitarists have to work hard because they don't have the guidance of a teacher. Self-taught guitarists have to work hard, if not harder than taught guitarists (like bluesy said). But that all depends on the guitarist, his or her goals, and how much time and work he or she is willing to put into playing the guitar.

I'll have to agree with bluesy once again:

Even THEN, its useless, because music isn't about being better, its about being satisfied. A campfire guitarist can have the same satisfaction as a jazz guru or a shred genius.

So true

#25
"Self-taught" guitarists may or may not decide to teach themselves more general "musical" knowledge (i.e. notes, scales, etc - what most of us would consider "basic" knowledge) and simply focus on playing the guitar. With notepad tablature and resources like this website it is very possible to learn songs and guitar technique without knowledge of scales etc. However, some still teach themselves this sort of knowledge alongside learning to play the guitar, and would be able to answer a question like "what chord is this?".

Also, I don't think you should get so worked up about people "stealing" your work, even though you put a lot of effort into it. Just think about it for a bit - this sort of thing is common.
#26
self taught guitarist dosent mean they have a musical ear.... self taught guitarist means they have never had another person specificaly a profesional guitar teacher show them how to do anything.

self taught guitarists are self taught because they look up and read everythign on there own by themselves which means no other person showed them anything.

some self taught guitarists are very well educated in music theory while others just learn tab after tab and dont know a c major from a a minor.

i was a self taught guitar for 4 years and i was allright with music theory and now im takeing lessons and have learned alot more about music theory
#27
It's really rather simple - "self-taught" means that the person took some initiative and worked on their own. It requires a lot of motivation, but it's sometimes easier to improve with the guidance of someone more experienced. I've been playing about a year and I'm completely self-taught, and I'd say I've come decently far just based on how much I applied myself to studying and practicing.

Very simply, you get out what you put in.
#28
I'm on my computer A LOT, and often what I'm doing is watching informative videos on like Youtube, or reading about something on Wikipedia, and just generally sucking up information. So when I decided to learn guitar it was only natural to learn it via internet, and it's been my teacher almost exclusively. It also helped that my dad has played guitar since like the 50's, but that mainly just gave some amount of talent as opposed to straight up teaching me things.

And I can play a lot of things, but I hardly ever know what it is in terms of theory. That just comes from pure laziness, though, and I wish I was more motivated to learn that stuff. I simply haven't found it very necessary is all. And I think its really silly for anyone to WANT to be like that. I'm much more knowledgeable as a drummer, and I frown upon drummers who can't tune their drums, for instance, or who don't use the proper terminology to explain beats, or don't use proper technique.
We're only strays.
#29
Danny, I obviously struck an odd chord with you mate (no pun intended)...but please read on...

quote: They didn't magically become good. They can put in the same or sometimes even more of the effort you, me, or anybody puts in.

how do you know this and do you know the people I am talking about? Its a hypothetical scenario with many various answers and you have provided one interpretation of a possible angle/answer but you appear to stand very firm on your answer and what evidence do you have to suggest this?

Also...

Quote: What lies?! If they were lying they would make up some fancy sounding name or chord, which then you know they were lying. If they don't know, they don't know. Teach them if they're willing to learn.

How can you make an assumption that thats the absolute truth someone is telling you? I mean no matter whether they are self taught or not i am curiouos to gain some insight into there musical journey as the majority of times when i ask this question or others ask me it tells me a little about the person...which i find fascinating...its not to kick em in the guts and turn myself into a hero...

also...

quote: Wait... what? So you're feeling robbed because you put in effort to learn a song someone else wrote, and then you show them how to play it? Thats pretty selfish, even more so considering you didn't even write the song. So what if a person learns it faster than you, or it comes to them easier? What you should really be feeling is the satisfaction of putting hard effort in to learn something, and now you have the reward of playing it, and learning things along the way (or at least thats what I feel.)

Who made you God and assesor of peoples posts here and calling me selfish when you dont even know me...i was just making a point about some people I know who do not have half the responsibilities i have being a worker, father and husband etc and I find time to do this. They dont have the commitments I have and cannot allocate some time to put there own song set list together and that to me is something I wont tolerate (but its obviously something you would!). My time is very precious and I allocate it at my leisure and if someone is really interested in creating their own songs or doing covers then wouldnt they then have to rely on their own initiative to actually DO it rather then rely on the convienience of others to do what they should do (makes me question how serious they are ...). I dont mind a reciprical arrangment but when its a one way street that is quite irritating! You may be different and thats your chioce, I am not telling you what to do as i dont even know you or what your day to day life is like! You may have all the time in the world to leisurely teach people and random and share the fruits of your labour/s (even if it is covers material), the point is you take the initiative to put something together and then share it and to me thats a true sign of dedication (look at people who contribute to this site and i am talking more specifically about typing up songs and putting chords in the right spot to then play them not really tabs!) if someone does compile there own list of songs and puts them into a folder and spent many hours behind the scenes doing this for themselves, rather then opportunists who dont have the time of day to do exactly what you/i have! Maybe I should strive to be more like you...a good person who doesnt have a care in the world and shares everything at the drop of a hat and who logically knows the answers to every ones problems without even consulting and getting to know someone?

Quote: There have been several times where I've seen self taught guitarist who are better than taught guitarist. Then there's the taught guitarist who are better than self taught. What really depends is the dedication of the instrument, and how passionate they are about it. Even THEN, its useless, because music isn't about being better, its about being satisfied. A campfire guitarist can have the same satisfaction as a jazz guru or a shred genius. Why must you generalize and look down upon self taught guitarist?

Mate i know all this about what your saying but i didnt want to write a 100 page theisis on explaining the context of my thinking on this topic, i was just curious and so are several other people who have given their interpretation on the issue and i just wanted to see what others think and feel about it. Plus the look down part is wrong as I am a self taught guitarist and take great pride in my efforts so you have again read me wrong so next time you jump on you high horse and start on your crystal ball thinking think again... With all that said now back to the core of what i was actually thinking and that is how would a definition of what an actual self taught guitarist sound/look like?

for e.g. According to the ultimate guitars forum a definition of a self taught guitarist would look something like this:

A self taugh guitarist is someone who....a bit in their about using various resources at there own leisure...minimal to no teaching ...uses own initiative...what ...more ?

Also what I am sensing here in relation to what people are indicating is that even if someones version/interpretation of the question is different does it make them to be wrong or is there enough room in this forum to allow all peoples perspectives and respect their views? Or do they have to match up with your perspective and then what happens if it doesnt meausure up to your high intellect? I appreciate your reply but not the personal attacks as I am here to learn and make friends but I am unsure about you ...but from what i have learnt so far on this question is that many people are not like you and your thinking is in the minority...so it really doesnt matter (they cannot all be wrong...)!

plus you wrote in your profile: "Please to meet you. My name is Danny, I mod the Musician's Talk forums. I'm a friendly guy too. Don't be a jerk, don't be disrespectful to anyone or the forums, and we won't have a problem. Lets keep it a friendly and welcoming environment. "

reread your profile statement and then read the post you originally sent me and do you see any contradictions in it? I am an ok person also and you may report me but i am only defending my perspective and do i have a right to do this?
shaggs
Last edited by shaggz at Jul 30, 2008,
#30
What's with whole musicians ear thing. Someone could be self taught and not have the "Musicians Ear". As for me I'm taught.
#31
Natural talent is rubbish really. It's about the work you put into it. You may be more prone to learning something because you have better ear, or have been listening to more complex music from a younger age, but natural talent? Blah.

And T/S. You are on very selfish human being. What do you care if they can pick it up faster? Sometimes I listen to some of the guys here talk about theory and they know so much more than me, or I listen to some of them play guitar on their profile and their so much better than me. Who cares? I know why they're better. They've been studying longer and harder than me and if I want to get good, I should study as well.

You can learn anything from anyone by the way. I have learnt loads of songs and cool little bits and pieces from campfire guitarists that I love to play and I taught them something back. That's what music is about, sharing and learning. Not about: omg he learns faster than me! that's so unfairrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


EDIT: Shaggs, grow up man. Danny was giving you his opinion and what he thought of you not wanting to share what you've learnt with other guitarists. If you don't like it, that's alright, you can tell him and he'll accept it. Stop being so arrogant and full of yourself.

Who made you God and assesor of peoples posts here and calling me selfish when you dont even know me...

He isn't a God, he's just telling you what he thinks about you based on what's in your first post. Guess what, I think the exact same thing except now I actually don't respect you at all for the post you made.

a good person who doesnt have a care in the world and shares everything at the drop of a hat and who logically knows the answers to every ones problems without even consulting and getting to know someone?

Look smart guy, you posted a thread in which you said certain things. Now, we judge you and your post based on what you say on it. If you're going to react this way to what people think of you based on what you've said then don't post.

Plus the look down part is wrong as I am a self taught guitarist and take great pride in my efforts so you have again read me wrong so next time you jump on you high horse and start on your crystal ball thinking think again...

Your first post says nothing about you being a self taught guitarist, and since you were talking down on self taught guitarists what did you want him to assume? Use your common sense.

Also what I am sensing here in relation to what people are indicating is that even if someones version/interpretation of the question is different does it make them to be wrong or is there enough room in this forum to allow all peoples perspectives and respect their views? Or do they have to match up with your perspective and then what happens if it doesnt meausure up to your high intellect

If you're so worried about perspectives and points of view, why have you typed up a reply in which you disagree with him and insult him in every single section of the post? It doesn't make much sense to me


And self taught guitarist is pretty self explanatory. It's a guitarist that learnt to play the guitar by themselves, using their own means. It requires lots of motivation and hard work just like learning the guitar through a teacher does.
Last edited by confusius at Jul 30, 2008,
#32
Quote by shaggz

also as a guitarist myself I get very protective of what i learn and how long it take to learn some more difficult pieces and feel robbed when it took me some long study of a particular song/tabs and then someone who wants to learn it starts asking about how to play it and then I show em and there off and running with the song without putting in the sacrifice i have to learn it...how do others feel about this?

Also when i have chorded up my song set and spent many hours/days arranging my song list and then someone sees this and then says "oh can I photocopy them" and i feel a little ripped off because they want to do this and if they where half as serious as i am about putting a set list together they would do it for themseves...its probably laziness!

You have to admit that that's pretty selfish and arrogant; who are you to decide that someone isn't as dedicated as you and therefore doesn't deserve your help when it doesn't do you any distress? I'm not trying to start a fight or insult you but like, I don't get how can you interact with people if you have this notion ingrained in you.
#33
I was self taught for 8 years or so then went to GIT. being taught accelerated my understanding but not my technique. I needed my mind opening to other approaches, ideas and being taught did that. It gave me an appreciation of music as a whole as opposed to the blinkered out look of most self taught players.
#34
TS is ignorant, if my friend asked me to learn a song i lifted, i would teach him.
and @ the guy who said they have better ears wtf? thats the dumbest thing I ever heard. you have to learn how to lift a tune, there's nothing automatic about it.
the only difference is a self taught teaches him/herself.
i started off self taught but moved to lessons, and lessons help you progress much faster.
the only reason self taught guitars can lift better is that trained one's are lazzy assholes who get there teachers to do it for them.

and Ts don't be ignorant, i bet you used the tabs section of this website...
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#35
You should never be ashamed of having a teacher. In fact, be proud of it if they have done a good job with you.

The best and most dynamic players I know have had teachers.
#36
Self taught just means you didn't have formal lessons as far as I'm concerned. I'm self taught, I got by fine but I don't doubt that I'd have been more focussed and progressed faster in the early years if I'd had lessons. Ultimately though all the knowledge is out there, especially nowadays - if you've got the motivation and common sense to look for it and study then you can easily teach yourself, but it never hurts to have somebody steering you in the right direction. However, teacher or no you still have to learn to play the thing yourself, abd arguably having lessons is no more or less of a guarantee that you'll be successful.

However the original post just looks like a big bitchfest to me.
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#37
alright man...well i used to take lessons for about 2 years but am now teaching myself and this is what i have learned...its pretty much like this:
self taught guitarists often find a great sense of pride in the fact that they taught themselves without any help from a mentor and such...the only thing is there are two kinds of these musicians: there are ones who are really serious about learning and exploring the art of their instrument, and then there are the lazy unmotivated ones that don't dedicate their time to it...the problem theses days is that playing an instrument has become much more of a factor to increase your popularity and to look cool...it doesn't even matter how good you are. if you say "oh yea i play guitar (or whatever else)" people think that its cool...there are way too many people out there who say they play just to be cool even though they don't understand the true meaning of playing an instrument...lessons aren't really that bad at all...MANY MANY MANY great guitarists took lessons at younger ages...joe satriani taught steve via and look at where steve is today, one of the greatest guitarists in the world...its always great to have someone there to keep you on the right track and to teach you stuff you would have never known...my view as a currently self taught guitarist is that its just great to get out there and learn things from all sorts of people and truly get out and explore the instrument whether its learning from other people and discussing the art, or picking up and book and learning a few scales and techniques...it doesn't matter if you are self taught or are taking lessons...its all a matter of if you really do appreciate the art or if you are playing to be "cool"
#38
Quote by shaggz
also as a guitarist myself I get very protective of what i learn and how long it take to learn some more difficult pieces and feel robbed when it took me some long study of a particular song/tabs and then someone who wants to learn it starts asking about how to play it and then I show em and there off and running with the song without putting in the sacrifice i have to learn it...how do others feel about this?

Also when i have chorded up my song set and spent many hours/days arranging my song list and then someone sees this and then says "oh can I photocopy them" and i feel a little ripped off because they want to do this and if they where half as serious as i am about putting a set list together they would do it for themseves...its probably laziness!

This. Bugs. The. Hell. Out. Of. Me.

I'll pick up a song on guitar/piano/whatever, I'll be tinkering with it, and then five minutes later, someone comes up and goes "WHOA THAT'S SO COOL TEACH ME HOW TO PLAY."

If it's a little thing like a lick or riff I throw out at a jam, then I'm perfectly happy to share that. But a lot of the time, with original material I spent weeks on...well...excuse me, I'll have to be a little egotistical here.
#39
how do you know this and do you know the people I am talking about? Its a hypothetical scenario with many various answers and you have provided one interpretation of a possible angle/answer but you appear to stand very firm on your answer and what evidence do you have to suggest this?


I don't know the people you're talking about. I was just pulling out a scenario thats all. But its impossible for someone to become magically good. I'm just saying that they might put in more work then we think.

How can you make an assumption that thats the absolute truth someone is telling you? I mean no matter whether they are self taught or not i am curiouos to gain some insight into there musical journey as the majority of times when i ask this question or others ask me it tells me a little about the person...which i find fascinating...its not to kick em in the guts and turn myself into a hero...


I'm not automatically assuming the truth. If a person ask someone a question like that, and the other person replies "I don't know," then chances are, they don't know. I'm wondering what you meant by 'lies' too.

Who made you God and assesor of peoples posts here and calling me selfish when you dont even know me...i was just making a point about some people I know who do not have half the responsibilities i have being a worker, father and husband etc and I find time to do this. They dont have the commitments I have and cannot allocate some time to put there own song set list together and that to me is something I wont tolerate (but its obviously something you would!). My time is very precious and I allocate it at my leisure and if someone is really interested in creating their own songs or doing covers then wouldnt they then have to rely on their own initiative to actually DO it rather then rely on the convienience of others to do what they should do (makes me question how serious they are ...). I dont mind a reciprical arrangment but when its a one way street that is quite irritating! You may be different and thats your chioce, I am not telling you what to do as i dont even know you or what your day to day life is like! You may have all the time in the world to leisurely teach people and random and share the fruits of your labour/s (even if it is covers material), the point is you take the initiative to put something together and then share it and to me thats a true sign of dedication (look at people who contribute to this site and i am talking more specifically about typing up songs and putting chords in the right spot to then play them not really tabs!) if someone does compile there own list of songs and puts them into a folder and spent many hours behind the scenes doing this for themselves, rather then opportunists who dont have the time of day to do exactly what you/i have!
I didn't call you selfish, I just thought the way you act in those situations is selfish. I'm sure you're a wonderful guy, with good intentions. I now understand that you have a busy life, so now that puts things into perspective. I now see where you're coming from, but before I couldn't. I don't have all the time in the world too, I wish I did. But remember man, music is to be shared. If you don't like it when they ask you too, then tell them that. Offer to help if you can.

Maybe I should strive to be more like you...a good person who doesnt have a care in the world and shares everything at the drop of a hat and who logically knows the answers to every ones problems without even consulting and getting to know someone?


Woah woah woah. I don't share everything, I don't know everything, and I certainly care about many things. I was just expressing my opinion and offering a few suggestions on your post. I wasn't trying to fix you, if that what it seemed like.


Mate i know all this about what your saying but i didnt want to write a 100 page theisis on explaining the context of my thinking on this topic, i was just curious and so are several other people who have given their interpretation on the issue and i just wanted to see what others think and feel about it. Plus the look down part is wrong as I am a self taught guitarist and take great pride in my efforts so you have again read me wrong so next time you jump on you high horse and start on your crystal ball thinking think again... With all that said now back to the core of what i was actually thinking and that is how would a definition of what an actual self taught guitarist sound/look like?


Well see you never stated that you're self taught. That gives it a different meaning now doesn't it? Its hard to read a person correctly, when the original post isn't super clear. I'm not on a high horse, I'm not using this as an ego boost. I'm not one of those guys (even if I came across as one.) I am in no way better than anyone, I don't really think I am.
DANNY

Quote by kevinm4435 to some guy
hey d00d i herd u dont like shred u r a genius 4 thinkin dat. all shred is fukin lame wit no soul u no wat im sayin??
Last edited by bluesrocker101 at Jul 30, 2008,
#40
for e.g. According to the ultimate guitars forum a definition of a self taught guitarist would look something like this:

A self taugh guitarist is someone who...a bit in their about using various resources at there own leisure...minimal to no teaching ...uses own initiative...what ...more ?

Also what I am sensing here in relation to what people are indicating is that even if someones version/interpretation of the question is different does it make them to be wrong or is there enough room in this forum to allow all peoples perspectives and respect their views? Or do they have to match up with your perspective and then what happens if it doesnt meausure up to your high intellect? I appreciate your reply but not the personal attacks as I am here to learn and make friends but I am unsure about you ...but from what i have learnt so far on this question is that many people are not like you and your thinking is in the minority...so it really doesnt matter (they cannot all be wrong...)!


No no no, I think its very important that everyone expresses their (you, me, posters above me, anyone) opinion. I expressed mine in a form of a discussion with yours. My opinion isn't a better opinion, its not a more important opinion. Its just... my opinion. I wasn't trying to personally attack you. That would be stupid of me, and I would warn/ban myself if I did. And hey, just because something is in the minority, doesn't mean it doesn't count. That goes for any situation too, not just this.

plus you wrote in your profile: "Please to meet you. My name is Danny, I mod the Musician's Talk forums. I'm a friendly guy too. Don't be a jerk, don't be disrespectful to anyone or the forums, and we won't have a problem. Lets keep it a friendly and welcoming environment. "

reread your profile statement and then read the post you originally sent me and do you see any contradictions in it? I am an ok person also and you may report me but i am only defending my perspective and do i have a right to do this?
shaggs


I apologize if I have come off as a jerk. I'm not really. I try to be helpful, and I enjoy expressing an opinion. Are you a bad person for expressing your opinion? Certainly not. I don't know you personally, so I can't judge you. I don't disagree with you as a person, I just disagree with those particular thoughts. I never said you were a bad person.

My post was too long so I had to put in two posts lol. Oh and confusius, that seems harsh and unnecessary to me.
DANNY

Quote by kevinm4435 to some guy
hey d00d i herd u dont like shred u r a genius 4 thinkin dat. all shred is fukin lame wit no soul u no wat im sayin??
Last edited by bluesrocker101 at Jul 30, 2008,
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