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#1
Im currently playing my gibson sg through an AVT50.
I know you all hate it and although I think it sounds just fine for a solid state, I wanna upgrade to a tube amp (You people convinced me to get it instead of a pedal).
I play pretty much anything...(blues to death metal) I want good cleans but it doesnt have to be the greatest, need a good crunch/distortion sound.
Its going to be used mostly for home practise / with my band and for small gigs.
I've been looking around for a while now so there are two amps that caught my eye:
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401
Peavey Valveking 112

I know you'll say the marshall is overpriced but it isnt like that around here 'coz the price is pretty much similar to the U.S. price unlike other amps which cost like twice the U.S. price. (Something like 1400$ for the DSL and 950$ for the valveking...).

Both of these amps got mixed reviews so I wanna know what you think, and feel free to offer different amps if you think they are right for me.
#5
You can get much better for $1400.
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#6
dude DSL... all the way.. lol
My Gear:
Gibson Flying V (active Emg's 81, 85)
Peavey 6505 Amp

Avatar Cab /w Vintage 30's / G12H-30's
Schecter Damien-6
ISP Decimator
Vox Wah Pedal
Ibanez TS808 Tube Screamer
Roland Cube 60
#7
Well my budget is something like 1400-1500 max, of cours I dont have to use all of it and also I thought I might need extra cash for an OD pedal or speaker changing.
From what Ive read, the valveking comes with a terrible speaker that must be replaced and the tubes should be changed too.
Some people say the same about the DSL but others say it sounds great as it is... so I guess its up to my taste.

By the way what other options did you mean by "you can get much better for 1400$"?
I would like to check it out because like I said the prices of other amps where I live are usually like double than the US price.

And yes I do compare them.. I would compare the 212 which should be a lil better but I think its too big for me.

Now I got another question, tube amps should sound much louder than SS right?
I play my 50watts avt at like 2-3 on the volume knob at home and 5-6 I think, with my band (OD channel 0-10).
So my question is : will 40 or 50 watts of tube power be too loud for me? will I be able to get good sound out of it at this volume?
#8
The Valveking is not in the same league as the Marshall... Chinese entry level amp. Check out an Orange. built better than the Marshall, and it could be argued it sounds better
#9
The AVT50 is imo a better amplifier than the Peavey Valveking. Yes, blasphemous to say, a hybrid circuit sounds better than an all tube circuit, bite me, the valveking has this horribly fizzy lead channel. It sounds great if you want a box of bees, but despite being all tube, its dynamics are not that good.

Both are entry level tube amplifiers that do not sound that good. The DSL401s are mediocre and expensive simply because they are Marshalls. In fact, Marshall's overall lineup these days leave much to be desired. Even their hand wired plexis need at least another $500 in mods to get it to sound like a real plexi. Peavey VKs are made in china, use poor quality components and sound bad in general.

I'd get a Marshall clone if I were you. Check out Ceriatone, get them to build you an 18 watt TMB. Will fit in your budget, and sound significantly better than both amps you listed. I am a Marshall guy, and I would not go near a current production Marshall with my hard earned cash.
Last edited by al112987 at Jul 29, 2008,
#10
Quote by al112987
The AVT50 is imo a better amplifier than the Peavey Valveking. Yes, blasphemous to say, a hybrid circuit sounds better than an all tube circuit, bite me, the valveking has this horribly fizzy lead channel. It sounds great if you want a box of bees, but despite being all tube, its dynamics are not that good.

Both are entry level tube amplifiers that do not sound that good. The DSL401s are mediocre and expensive simply because they are Marshalls. In fact, Marshall's overall lineup these days leave much to be desired. Even their hand wired plexis need at least another $500 in mods to get it to sound like a real plexi. Peavey VKs are made in china, use poor quality components and sound bad in general.

I'd get a Marshall clone if I were you. Check out Ceriatone, get them to build you an 18 watt TMB. Will fit in your budget, and sound significantly better than both amps you listed. I am a Marshall guy, and I would not go near a current production Marshall with my hard earned cash.


Just wondering if you've played a Traynor YCS50 yet.
#12
Ive looked into the orange, I believe the closest thing to what Im looking for is the Rocker 30? I think its abit out of my budget, is it really that good? worth the money?

I dont feel like buying a marshall clone, there are no excuses, I just dont want a clone

Two more options which I think my budget can handle are Fender hot rod deluxe and vox AC30 or maybe 15? but Im not sure about the distortion of these amps.

Buying used amp is another option but in that case I would probably need to get it sent from the US or take it myself from the UK (Im probably gonna be there in about 2 weeks from now) coz the used market in my country bearly got anything to offer(small country). Is it ok to take an amp on a flight?

I also got that question about the volume not answered yet.

Thanks
Last edited by Ran-b at Jul 30, 2008,
#13
The DSL401 will be too loud. Master volume Marshalls sound really brittle and buzzy and low volumes when you turn up the gain, you need to get the power tubes saturated for the dynamics and harmonics of a Marshall tube amp to come out in full force.

If you want to do the tube tone at low volume thing, you'll have to get an attenuator.

Traynors do great Marshall voicings at great prices, but will likely be more expensive on your side of the pond than over here.
Last edited by al112987 at Jul 30, 2008,
#14
are you familiar with hughes and kettner my friend?
within you lay everything
every key
every secret

untouched and in plain sight
#18
I dont think I mentioned it before but Im looking for a combo...
The mesa seems really nice although the mark IV is abit expensive.

Is the DSL401 really to loud for me? it was pretty much in the top of my list.

Is there any chance of getting a jubilee for that price range?(a combo , like 2554 I think) its kinda like my dream amp...
#19
If you've been playing your AVT on about 2-3, you will end up playing your DSL on about 2-3. They are similar in volume. This is not high enough to get the power tubes cooking, and until you get to that point, the DSL will not sound any better than the AVT.

Always try before you buy, while the EL34 based DSLs are actually pretty good sounding, the 401 is nothing special. Don't be fooled by its price or features, its an entry level tube amp whose price has been bumped up because its a Marshall.
#20
So what you're saying is that the DSL401 sound is no better than a valveking 112 or a randall rg50tc (500$ amps).
And also that I should go for a 15-30watt amp to get a good tube sound because playing a 40/50 tube with the volume at 9 o'clock won't sound better than a solid state?

Edit: Playing my AVT50 at my room with the OD channel volume at 3 is fine but I think the clean channel could use more headroom because it starts to distort if you wanna get equal volume to 3 on the OD channel, will it be the same on a lower watt tube amp?
Last edited by Ran-b at Jul 30, 2008,
#21
Pretty much any tube amp (IME) at a low volume will beat an equivilent SS amp at the same volume. Tube amps just sound BEST when higher.

How is the Mark IV too pricey? Buy it used and you could get a combo for around $1200.
#22
No the DSL401 is better than both those amps, but not good enough to warrant the +$1000 price tag.

I'd look into 15-30 watts if I were you. Marshalls in particular need to be cranked to get the best tone. They sound brittle and fizzy at lower volumes once you start kicking in the gain and you will not get the compression, dynamics or harmonically complex sound that tube amps are known for until you start bringing the volume up. The "clean" channel on the DSLs are not really "clean" channels, they do clean to crunch depending on gain and volume settings. You're really supposed to use your guitar volume control to clean up overdriven Marshalls. The "lead" channel just sounds rank to my ears. On every JCM2000 I've ever played.
#23
The 1000$+ price tag gets a different meaning when a valveking 112 costs like 950 and a randall rg50tc costs the same as the DSL 401

What amp would fit me in your opinion al?(except the clones)

"How is the Mark IV too pricey? Buy it used and you could get a combo for around $1200"
The cheapest Mark IV I could find was 1300$ on ebay with like 4 days left for bids.
If Im not wrong the Mark IV is 85watt(I could be wrong) which is way too much for me.
The f-30 might be an option but I cant check how it sounds because they dont bring them here to my country. but its still a mesa... can it sound bad?

what about the 2554 jubilee? There's one on ebay for 985$ with a few days left, can I get it (or another one) for less than 1500$?
#25
Classic 50!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Peavey Classic 50!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Should I Say It Again??????????
Quote by Spartan070sarge
I wasn't aware that Eric Cartman was a UGer.

He said that about me

#27
Quote by Ran-b
The 1000$+ price tag gets a different meaning when a valveking 112 costs like 950 and a randall rg50tc costs the same as the DSL 401

What amp would fit me in your opinion al?(except the clones)

"How is the Mark IV too pricey? Buy it used and you could get a combo for around $1200"
The cheapest Mark IV I could find was 1300$ on ebay with like 4 days left for bids.
If Im not wrong the Mark IV is 85watt(I could be wrong) which is way too much for me.
The f-30 might be an option but I cant check how it sounds because they dont bring them here to my country. but its still a mesa... can it sound bad?

what about the 2554 jubilee? There's one on ebay for 985$ with a few days left, can I get it (or another one) for less than 1500$?


The Valveking 112 costs $400 and the Randall cost around $650.

At least here in the US.
#28
I think the randall is even cheaper than that in the US but I dont live there.
Thats why Im saying the marshall isnt really expensive here comparing to other amps.
Still got some questions left with no answer on this thread , come on guys!
#29
Ah... makes sense then.

Well, its an easy decision, the Marshall is easily the best of those 3.
#30
I still say you should try an Orange. It may cost a bit more (couple hundred at most) but is well worth it. A TSL is a far cry from the Marshalls of old. clone or not, Orange are built better and nail the classic 800/900 tone.
#31
A DSL gets closer to the "classic" Marshall tone than a JCM900 (which is not by any means a "classic" Marshall).
Last edited by al112987 at Jul 30, 2008,
#32
Quote by al112987
A DSL gets closer to the "classic" Marshall tone than a JCM900...

Are you using the same DSL, as in the JCM2000? They are alot more modern sounding than a 900. More gain, a little more bassy/mid cut EQ range, the gain just has a different sound.
#33
Quote by CJRocker
Are you using the same DSL, as in the JCM2000? They are alot more modern sounding than a 900. More gain, a little more bassy/mid cut EQ range, the gain just has a different sound.


DSL, TSL are both JCM2000 amps. And they are not more modern sounding than the JCM900. JCM900 was Marshall's first attempt at modern metal, JCM2000 is that, plus an attempt at their vintage voicings.

And Oranges sound distinctly different from the classic Marshall's (plexi panels, early metal panel JMPs).
#34
Quote by staticoverdub
ps, you could spend a LOT less for an excellent amp.

or you could get the best amp


http://www.musicgoround.com/gear/inventorydetails.asp?id=604676

not a bad price either.

its the last and only amp you'll ever need.



Holy ****, a mkii triamp for $1500? They go for $3200 new !

If only I had the money.


Dude, TS, I am going to HIGHLY recommend that h&k amp. it's AMAZING, four channels that can do pretty much anything and sound orgasmic.


Plus, it lights up with these really awesome blue neon lights.
#35
its not a mark 2, it's the original. which I believe is the same, except for something having to do with reverb. might not have it.
within you lay everything
every key
every secret

untouched and in plain sight
#36
Quote by staticoverdub
its not a mark 2, it's the original. which I believe is the same, except for something having to do with reverb. might not have it.


Oh, whoops. I thought they were cosmetically different.

Still, amazing amp!


edit: oh, the mkii does look a bit different :P

I didnt enlarge the pic
Last edited by injected at Jul 31, 2008,
#38
You remember me?
Do I know you?

I live in Israel if that matters.

EDIT: Back on topic- as I said before, I don't have a price problem with the DSL 401 since all the others are really overpriced here, but I dont wanna go deaf trying to get a decent sound out of it...
I would like to see more options, also I mentioned the Vox ac30/15 and a fender hot rod deluxe which no one talked about (I heard the fender overdrive isnt so great, but nothing about the vox).
Was I right about the Mesa Mk IV being 85watt? and how is the f-30?

I didnt quite get all I wanted from this thread yet so dont you guys stop replying

Thanks
Last edited by Ran-b at Jul 31, 2008,
#39
^Yeah, you were looking for a pedal a while back, and I thought that an amp might be a better investment.
As fasr as those other amps..

The AC15, first of all, is not just a smaller version of the AC30.
Doesn't sound like it, IMO. Anyway, the HRD and the AC30 don't get near enough distortion for what it sounds like you need.


You say you play everything from blues to death metal...You probably need to narrow your amp's variety down. Most amps are only good at a couple of things, sir.
#40
Well I said in my original post that I first wanted a pedal and you kinda convinced me to buy an amp (I wasnt really looking for a new amp so I didnt check any tube amps before... I was sure mine is great).
The pedal I wanted was basicly to get a heavier sound for my band coz we play some king of trash metal but at home I play lots of different stuff...
However, I did mention that a good distortion is more important than great cleans(it doesnt mean I dont want good cleans too, they just dont have to be fender's or smth like that).
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