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#1
They're SO much more expensive than solid state. I want a nice tube half stack, but i could get a SS one for half the price...

I know the difference is that tube is "real" tone and solidstate just emulates it, but let's be honest, people research ss ones on tube amps to sound just like them. And they're less maintenance. I went to the store the other day and tried a Mesa dual rectifier. I LOVED the tone, and it was a beast. Price was $1450 though, way out of my range. Then I tried a Hughes and Kettner 100watt combo 212 SS, and I also loved it. Not as powerful as the recto, but it sounded fine :/

I just don't know what to do. Convince me to get a tube or ???
#2
Get a tube combo then, if a halfstack is too expensive.
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#3
Look at windsor by peavey, pretty affordable and is ok depending on what you want to play. If you buy an SS in two years youll be shopping for a tube. If you buy a tube you will be shopping for a guitar in two years.
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#4
If you like SS amps, get one.

If affordability is your only complaint, get a tube combo. They have more than enough power. Also, look used. You'll get much better deals that way.

That said, you don't need to be convinced to get a tube amp if you like SS amps just fine.
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#5
Tubes have certain tonal and dynamic qualities that solid states don't.

In my opinion, tube amps are overrated in a sense. Half the people who buy them do so only because they heard tubes were better or were told that tubes were better. Imo high gain players do not need tube amps because their style and sound covers up the dynamics of a tube amp anyway. A tube amp has its best tonal qualities when its on the edge of breakup, and when its power tubes are hot and you get that great vintage crunch that feedbacks perfectly and cleans up when you roll off the volume on your guitar. Unfortunately, few players play tube amps like this anymore and high gain pre-amp distortion tube amps do not have these same dynamics (thus I've never really liked Mesas). The master volume and pre-amp gain knob has killed the entire essence of tube amps amongst modern players.

But to make it simple, tube amps have a warmer more dynamic sound than a solid state, when you turn them up, the power tubes saturate and your sound will break up evenly and produce a dynamic, harmonically rich overdrive that you can't get with a solid state amp. Solid state amplifiers do not break up gracefully, and will fart out at high volumes giving you a very unpleasant clipping.
Last edited by al112987 at Jul 30, 2008,
#6
Quote by tubetime86
Look at windsor by peavey, pretty affordable and is ok depending on what you want to play. If you buy an SS in two years youll be shopping for a tube. If you buy a tube you will be shopping for a guitar in two years.



I tried a windsor, and it was only $300 which kind of turned me on to it. But it had hardly any gain, very weak.


Which brings me to my next question. I use a single digital multieffects processor for alot of things. If I got a head like the Windsor paired with a Crate cab or something cheap like that, would it kill the tone if I put on some digital distortion? I want it to sound WARM like a tube, but im afraid the pedals will kill that if I don't use the amps own distortion..
#7
Dimebag liked SS. Then again, his tone sucked. Don't get tube because we want you to, get it because you prefer them. You will change you mind after a few months of playing through that H&K crap SS amp because you will want something that sounds better.


I have an idea. Go try a B-52 AT-212. Cheaper than lots of stuff but sounds really good.


http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedgear/details.cfm?listID=104713848
#8
^^The digital distortion could indeed kill some of the tone. So could a cheap cab. Which is why combos are better value, usually.
Feel free to call me Kyle.

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#10
wow

ok lets start from the top

1) you dont need a halfstack. as soon as youre gigging venues which a combo cant cope with, therell be an in house PA to mic your amp. exceptions are almost exclusively when the amp you want doesnt come in combo form. then by all means.

2) people do reasearch to make the modellers sound similar to the tube amps, but the nature of an SS amp means that any shred of decent tone is lost at high volumes.

note: almost 100% of the time, amp companies are only interested in selling amps and will brainwash you with all sorts of "virtual tube" BS

3) THEYRE NOT MORE MAINTENANCE!!!

you change the valves when they wear out. every 3-5 years depending on usage and stuff.

if a tube amp breaks you make a tech fix it. if an SS amp breaks, you buy a new amp simple as that.

theyre all microchips and computers, theyre nigh on impossible to just mend

4) dont judge an amp on its power. it wont make your **** bigger.

5) the usual: budget? location? playing styles?

Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#11
Quote by injected
I tried a windsor, and it was only $300 which kind of turned me on to it. But it had hardly any gain, very weak.


Which brings me to my next question. I use a single digital multieffects processor for alot of things. If I got a head like the Windsor paired with a Crate cab or something cheap like that, would it kill the tone if I put on some digital distortion? I want it to sound WARM like a tube, but im afraid the pedals will kill that if I don't use the amps own distortion..


You can use an overdrive style pedal vs a distortion pedal to help retain your tone. The OD can be used to enhance your amps natural distortion by boosting the clean signal level to your amps preamp. This will cause the preamp to distort more. On the OD Pedal this would probably mean adjusting the Gain Control lower and the Output Level higher to provide a greater clean signal.
Moving on.....
#12
Quote by al112987
Tubes have certain tonal and dynamic qualities that solid states don't.

In my opinion, tube amps are overrated in a sense. Half the people who buy them do so only because they heard tubes were better or were told that tubes were better. Imo high gain players do not need tube amps because their style and sound covers up the dynamics of a tube amp anyway. A tube amp has its best tonal qualities when its on the edge of breakup, and when its power tubes are hot and you get that great vintage crunch that feedbacks perfectly and cleans up when you roll off the volume on your guitar. Unfortunately, few players play tube amps like this anymore and high gain pre-amp distortion tube amps do not have these same dynamics (thus I've never really liked Mesas). The master volume and pre-amp gain knob has killed the entire essence of tube amps amongst modern players.

But to make it simple, tube amps have a warmer more dynamic sound than a solid state, when you turn them up, the power tubes saturate and your sound will break up evenly and produce a dynamic, harmonically rich overdrive that you can't get with a solid state amp. Solid state amplifiers do not break up gracefully, and will fart out at high volumes giving you a very unpleasant clipping.


well, even at insane gain levels, you get the tube sag that SS doesnt offer. I personally have a 6505 and a Randall RH150(hybrid), and i love them both for their own unique sounds and uses
#13
Quote by injected
I tried a windsor, and it was only $300 which kind of turned me on to it. But it had hardly any gain, very weak.


Which brings me to my next question. I use a single digital multieffects processor for alot of things. If I got a head like the Windsor paired with a Crate cab or something cheap like that, would it kill the tone if I put on some digital distortion? I want it to sound WARM like a tube, but im afraid the pedals will kill that if I don't use the amps own distortion..


so buy the windsor and get a nice overdrive pedal to kick up the distortion.
also, look into a combo amp. there is NO need for a halfstack (see post above mine), and getting a cheap cab will make the head sound like ****. any combo you get will sound better than any head you're looking at, because you'll have to settle for a bad cab, which will kill the head.

go for a nice tube combo, and if you need, get a tubescreamer or something similar to put in front of the amp.
#14
Maybe I am interested in a combo then..

I have about a $650 limit. I want something preferably with good built in amp distortion, before you go and recommend a valveking or classic 30..

I play lots of cleans, but I don't need a fender clean sound because I dont play it as much as I play hard rock/metal. One person I know got a mesa boogie combo amp(Dunno wattage, but I gigged it without a PA and it held up), but I've never tried the built in amp distortion, i used my pedals.. he said he got it for about $400 somehow..


If you guys are going to recommend a combo make sure it's footswitchable
#15
Tube amps will SOUND louder than a solid state amp. its actually not it just has to do with how your ear picks up the threshholds and clips of a Tube Amp vs a SS. SS to me seems to get a little stale as well after playing them, tube amps seems to be really lively when u play while i find solid state just seems to kinda of drone in your ear. I play a Peavey 6505+, what ever you do stay away from those retarded Hybrid Randall heads, worst idea ever. I've played some bugera heads for 600 bucks and I actually really like those. Great choice i would think for a first head or a backup.
#16
Bugera 6262 combo!!!!!!
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#18
Quote by kayman121
well, even at insane gain levels, you get the tube sag that SS doesnt offer. I personally have a 6505 and a Randall RH150(hybrid), and i love them both for their own unique sounds and uses


I think you mean compression, "sag" comes from voltage drops before the supply current reaches the output tubes, usually this voltage drop occurs at the rectifier if the amp is tube rectified. Sag in solid state rectified amplifiers (most) have nothing to do with tubes but rather resistance in the transformers. Few high gain amplifiers actually use a tube rectifier and "sag" is not particuarly good for high gain genres because 1) it muds up easily 2) gives a spongier and less aggressive attack 2) makes notes "bloom" rather than "jump".
#19
not a lot i know tons about in the 650 range

look into:

B-52
peavey vyper

then forget about them and buy:

line6 flextone III

you get the 112 for 600 and the 212 for 700

unless youre playing massive gigs unmic'd i'd go for the 112, the extra speaker is only more weight. and you have cash left for the footswitch thing

i've seen a band gig with these and their tone was superb for hard rock/metal and the cleans were nice too
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#20
Quote by 7StringMassacre
Tube amps will SOUND louder than a solid state amp. its actually not it just has to do with how your ear picks up the threshholds and clips of a Tube Amp vs a SS. SS to me seems to get a little stale as well after playing them, tube amps seems to be really lively when u play while i find solid state just seems to kinda of drone in your ear. I play a Peavey 6505+, what ever you do stay away from those retarded Hybrid Randall heads, worst idea ever. I've played some bugera heads for 600 bucks and I actually really like those. Great choice i would think for a first head or a backup.

i beg to differ...this coming from an owner of a 6505. for obvious reasons i like the 6505 more..but i got the randall fullwell knowing the whole hybrid thing is just a gimmick. it still sounds awesome at practice levels though, prolly even better than the 6505 before i changed the V1 tube to a 5751 and loaded the preamp with tungsols and jj's
#21
Quote by al112987
I think you mean compression, "sag" comes from voltage drops before the supply current reaches the output tubes, usually this voltage drop occurs at the rectifier if the amp is tube rectified. Sag in solid state rectified amplifiers (most) have nothing to do with tubes but rather resistance in the transformers. Few high gain amplifiers actually use a tube rectifier and "sag" is not particuarly good for high gain genres because 1) it muds up easily 2) gives a spongier and less aggressive attack 2) makes notes "bloom" rather than "jump".


Sag is what I crave when i play SYL/Gojira type stuff...and i get it like a charm on my 6505.
#23
If I got something like the Classic 30 and I dropped an overdrive pedal would it be heavy enough for metal?

I don't play alot of it but I don't want it to sound like crap when I do either.
#24
I have a windsor, and I either play AC/DC type stuff through the preamp or I use a pedal in the effects loop. I dont like the preamp gain except for classic rock stuff. However it sounds great through the preamp, especially for lots of overdrive and for cleans.
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Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#25
Quote by acdcrocks0323
You are using the wrong term. Sag is from tube rectifiers and 6505s don't have them.


as far as im concerned, sag is just a generic term used to describe s certain tonal quality. excuse me for not saying that i love "voltage resistance from my amps transformers"
#26
Quote by injected
If I got something like the Classic 30 and I dropped an overdrive pedal would it be heavy enough for metal?

I don't play alot of it but I don't want it to sound like crap when I do either.

I don't think it would do a terrible job, but you would only get Metallica amounts of gain. My V16 is pretty similar to the Classic 30 and I have clips of it trying to do Metallica. I used a vintage TS-808 to boost my amp. I don't think it sounds that bad.
#27
+1 on the used Mesa F30 combo: relatively inexpensive, good cleans, great crunch, great lead sounds & will get you some great metal tones.
#28
Hey, I'm looking at the F30 right now. That's the one i gigged with and it was awesome! How much do they run?

Do they come in 212?
#29
Quote by TNfootballfan62
If you like SS amps, get one.

If affordability is your only complaint, get a tube combo. They have more than enough power. Also, look used. You'll get much better deals that way.

That said, you don't need to be convinced to get a tube amp if you like SS amps just fine.


agreed.

how loud did you have the recto?
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#31
haha well I guess my halfstack idea is now gone

I might look into the F50 though too. I don't gig much but a few times this year i'm going to have to play in front of 1100+ loud kids(high school) with no PA so a 30 or 50 watt mesa would do it . I'm just worried that a 112 will shake from where its standing if i crank it.. (my crappy line 6 SS does that)


What's your guys opinion on the Genz Benz Diablo 100 combo 212 though? It would definitely be loud enough haha, but anybody actually have experience with them?
#32
I stopped at the first statement.
Quote by injected
They're SO much more expensive than solid state.

You get what you pay for.

Get a valve combo.
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#33
Quote by injected
haha well I guess my halfstack idea is now gone

I might look into the F50 though too. I don't gig much but a few times this year i'm going to have to play in front of 1100+ loud kids(high school) with no PA so a 30 or 50 watt mesa would do it . I'm just worried that a 112 will shake from where its standing if i crank it.. (my crappy line 6 SS does that)


What's your guys opinion on the Genz Benz Diablo 100 combo 212 though? It would definitely be loud enough haha, but anybody actually have experience with them?

I think the thing shakes because it is poorly built. The F30 or F50 will easily be able to gig. Plus, most school auditoriums or stages have PA systems

I have heard the Diablo is a love/hate thing. Some people love them and some hate them. I wouldn't get it since you don't play much metal according to you.
#34
^ yeah, pretty much. I tried the 60 watt 1x12 and liked it, but a lot of people seem to hate the el-diablo. Also, as you said, it's more of a metal amp which can do other styles as well.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#35
Quote by al112987
Tubes have certain tonal and dynamic qualities that solid states don't.

In my opinion, tube amps are overrated in a sense. Half the people who buy them do so only because they heard tubes were better or were told that tubes were better. Imo high gain players do not need tube amps because their style and sound covers up the dynamics of a tube amp anyway. A tube amp has its best tonal qualities when its on the edge of breakup, and when its power tubes are hot and you get that great vintage crunch that feedbacks perfectly and cleans up when you roll off the volume on your guitar. Unfortunately, few players play tube amps like this anymore and high gain pre-amp distortion tube amps do not have these same dynamics (thus I've never really liked Mesas). The master volume and pre-amp gain knob has killed the entire essence of tube amps amongst modern players.

But to make it simple, tube amps have a warmer more dynamic sound than a solid state, when you turn them up, the power tubes saturate and your sound will break up evenly and produce a dynamic, harmonically rich overdrive that you can't get with a solid state amp. Solid state amplifiers do not break up gracefully, and will fart out at high volumes giving you a very unpleasant clipping.


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#37
two people from NC? right on, representin J-ville right hurr! UNC is gay!! sorry, lol, had to say it. i'm ECU

hmm if you wanna play hard rock/metal the most maybe a used mesa will do fine. a Randall RG50 would also work well especially after a tube swap. there's some good suggestions on here alright
My MAIN Gear
____________
"They call him the 'Sand Spider.' -Why? -Probably because it sounds scary"
*Agile AL3000 Les Paul w/ Alnico IIs
*Randall RM50
*Dunlop CFH
*fellow LEO feel free to give a shout out
#38
Quote by slash_rocks2005
two people from NC? right on, representin J-ville right hurr! UNC is gay!! sorry, lol, had to say it. i'm ECU

hmm if you wanna play hard rock/metal the most maybe a used mesa will do fine. a Randall RG50 would also work well especially after a tube swap. there's some good suggestions on here alright

UNC is the best! Duke is gay. ECU I have no opinion about.
#39
^lol

ECU is party central...we have a 'drunk bus'.....

funny cuz the advisors are like, "We have a ZERO tolerance drug policy, we catch u and you're OUT."

drinking policy, "if we find alcohol or you drink underage, then you basically have three strikes till you're put on academic probation"

LMAO
My MAIN Gear
____________
"They call him the 'Sand Spider.' -Why? -Probably because it sounds scary"
*Agile AL3000 Les Paul w/ Alnico IIs
*Randall RM50
*Dunlop CFH
*fellow LEO feel free to give a shout out
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