#1
I'm sure your all gonna go nuts with all sorts of forum lingo becuase I'm asking this, but here goes. Can someone point me in the direction of the most complete and accurate lesson about scales. I know scales, I know how to use them, I want to know why they are what they are, and about the intervals. I don't really want to get into modes yet (little by little young one), so just a simple break down of what scales are and more importantly why are they that.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#2
Modes are probably a better step next they tend to be what you do after scales anyway...

Just my tuppence.
Quote by Last_Serenade
dimebag put as much emotion in to 9/10 of his solos as hitler showed when putting jews in syanide showers.

Quote by P-Laverty
QUESTION! Does emo porn have blood everywhere from wrist wounds?

Quote by Dabey
HAHA U IS TEH EMOZORZ

no but seriously, HAHA U IS TEH EMOZORZ
#3
it's the right forum i think... tho it has probably been done before... and sorry,, no i don't have the answer to your question ;D
Quote by Moggan13
Serjem is like a Bishops testicals: Swollen
ಠ_ಠ
IIIIfb * KARKOLI * ytIIII(mostly rock... a little funky, a little hard just the way you want it )
#5
Ok, sorry that didnt read as well as it wrote, haha. So basically I know a few different scales in a few different places each. I memorize the shape of the scale or the "box(?)", I'm looking to learn to figure out scales on my own via the 1,2,3,4,5b,6,7 etc type thing. I get the basic idea 1 is the root note etc. But where I can I find the intervals for each kind of scale, as well as a good description of how these scales work.


Bascially I wanna stop memorizing WHAT things are, and start learning WHY they are.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#7
I found BanGoodCharotte's theory lesson she's always pushing... I think Ive got a start. but if anyone finds a more beginners lesson post it here plz
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#8
www.all-guitar-chords.com

> Guitar Scales (at the top)
> Pick scale of choice
> Under the fretboard, on the left, there is a list of intervals that the scale uses.

As to "how these scales work", I don't know where to find that. Maybe Wikipedia?
#9
Quote by Jdwannabe
Modes are probably a better step next they tend to be what you do after scales anyway...

Just my tuppence.


Mode are best ignored until one has a strong understanding of the major scale and diatonic harmony.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#10
Best place to start is definitely Josh Urban's "Crusade" articles in the columns section, plus the theory sticky.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#11
So if I know what a note is on the fretboard (lets say C) I can just go one fret up at a time on whatever string it is and it will be:

c (root) c# d D# e f F# g g# a# b C ???
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#12
Quote by tubetime86
Ok, sorry that didnt read as well as it wrote, haha. So basically I know a few different scales in a few different places each. I memorize the shape of the scale or the "box(?)", I'm looking to learn to figure out scales on my own via the 1,2,3,4,5b,6,7 etc type thing. I get the basic idea 1 is the root note etc. But where I can I find the intervals for each kind of scale, as well as a good description of how these scales work.


From a practical standpoint the only scales you really need to memorize are the major
scale and minor scale. The minor scale is really just a mode of the major, but it's
the next most important one because a key can be either major or minor. Song's
that are in minor keys are a bit more complicated because then you generally have
to deal with the harmonic minor scale too (the 3rd most important scale). That's
about it. You don't need to know about gypsy-jewish, spanish dominant, or other
obscure exotic scale you'll usually see in a long list of scales.

When you understand how the notes relate in the major and minor scales, you gain
enough understanding to apply your own alterations and/or begin to get more into
the modal alterations.
#13
^Ya but I wanna learn the intervals and how scales are made, so I dont have to memorize any scales. I just went through 1/12th of a lesson here and it helped alot. Seems like my course of action now will be:

1. Learn how to recognize what note a fret is.
2. Learn how to use intervals when moving from string to string.
3. Learn as many intervals and theories behind them as possible.
4. Attend a John Mayer concert, midway through the show push him off stage and take over.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#17
It sounds like you've got the idea that scales are more then they are. People are probably going to flame the hell out of my for this but the bottom line is, scales are just a collection of notes that have been found useful for conveying a certain emotion or sound. Scientists are still working out why they sound good, but as of now its best just to accept that they do.

The real complexity in how notes relate to each other (this is where the flaming will come) and how scales (just multiple notes) relate to each other. People are going to say "it sounds good because a major third is consonant", which is true, but is not an answer. Why does a major third sound consonant, because of the frequency ratio, why does that certain ratio sound better to us then say the tritone, no one has a damn clue, they just do.

Hope that helped.
#18
Quote by tubetime86
So if I know what a note is on the fretboard (lets say C) I can just go one fret up at a time on whatever string it is and it will be:

c (root) c# d D# e f F# g g# a# b C ???

Yes that is correct.
Quote by tubetime86
Ya but I wanna learn the intervals and how scales are made, so I dont have to memorize any scales.

A scale is a way to climb or descend from one point to another. It's like a ladder.
Different scales use different step sizes to climb up and down from root to root.

A Half Step moves one note so what you're doing above moving up fret by fret is moving through the "Chromatic Scale" using 11 half steps.

A Whole Step is moving up two half steps in one go.

The Major Scale uses the following step pattern to move from one root to the next.
Whole Whole Half Whole Whole Whole Half.

So there is One Whole Step between the 1st and 2nd Degrees of the Major Scale. There is another Whole Step between the 2nd and 3rd Degrees followed by a Half Step between the 3rd and 4th degrees of the major scale etc etc.

You can work out any Major Scale by using this pattern.

The Major scale is represented as 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. The step pattern is understood.
To describe a new scale it is described in terms of how it relates to the Major Scale.
E.G. the Natural Minor Scale is 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7. Because we know our major scale we can get the minor by using the Major Scale and flattin the 3rd, 6th, and 7th degrees.

This will create a new step pattern
[B]C Major Scale
1    2    3 4    5    6    7 8[/B]
[B]C[/B] C# [B]D[/B] D# [B]E[/B] [B]F[/B] F# [B]G[/B] G# [B]A[/B] A# [B]B[/B] [B]C[/B]
|____|____|_|____|____|____|_|
[B]  W    W   H  W    W    W   H[/B]

But if we flat the 3 6 and 7 as in the Natural Minor the step pattern changes.
[B]C Minor Scale
1    2 b3   4    5 b6   b7   8[/B]
[B]C[/B] C# D [B]Eb[/B] E [B]F[/B] F# [B]G[/B] [B]Ab[/B] A [B]Bb[/B] B [B]C[/B]
|____|_|____|____|____|_|____|
 [B] W   H  W    W    W   H  W[/B]
[I]Note that the new notes are Eb, Ab, and Bb and [B]NOT[/B] D#, G#, and A#.  
This is because we have flatted the 3 6 and 7 and not sharped the 2 5 and 6.  
Important distinction.[/I] 
You might notice that the step pattern is similar. If you place each one next to itself over and over you will see that there are always three whole steps then a half then two whole steps then a half then three whole steps then a half etc etc. They just start and end at different points along the same pattern.

The Major, Natural Minor and all the modes of the major scale share this step pattern starting on a different step. This is why the C major and A minor scales share the same notes but have completely different sounds. The A minor scale is the "Relative Minor" of C Major. Any two modes that share the same notes are called "Relative" because they share the same "Parent Scale" in this case the Major Scale.

Any two modes that share the same root note (e.g. C major and C minor) are called "Parallel".

You probably have this already through BGC's lesson link but I like writing it simply to get better at explaining it.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Jul 31, 2008,
#19
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Here I am. (Rock you like a hurricane...sorry, couldn't resist.)

Check the sig.


You would really need to make the size of the link bigger if you want more people to notice it...

Quote by lumpy890
It sounds like you've got the idea that scales are more then they are. People are probably going to flame the hell out of my for this but the bottom line is, scales are just a collection of notes that have been found useful for conveying a certain emotion or sound. Scientists are still working out why they sound good, but as of now its best just to accept that they do.

The real complexity in how notes relate to each other (this is where the flaming will come) and how scales (just multiple notes) relate to each other. People are going to say "it sounds good because a major third is consonant", which is true, but is not an answer. Why does a major third sound consonant, because of the frequency ratio, why does that certain ratio sound better to us then say the tritone, no one has a damn clue, they just do.

Hope that helped.


I believe it has to do with irregular beating (or just beating)...
Beating produces when the frecuencies of the sounds are not a critical band apart (I think, it is like %15 of the frecuency), or their rations being less than a critical band apart. This would create a "beat" which sounds rough, irregular, and ultimately dissonant...
I don't fully understand this, but it has something to do with psychoacoustics, and with the age etc of the listener...
Last edited by gonzaw at Jul 31, 2008,
#20
I suggest you don't start out learning a bunch of patterns, because your playing will sound rather mechanical (like your playing through a bunch of patterns)

Here's a nice article about intervals: http://ibreathemusic.com/article/31
and an approach i used to re-learn scales in the most musical fashion possible: http://ibreathemusic.com/article/147



EDIT: and just out of curiousity... you don't know about scales (which is a pretty basic foundation) but you have:
Gear:
6 Gibson Les Pauls
4 American Stratocasters
3 Gibson Explorers
?!?!
Last edited by Kick2theOvaries at Jul 31, 2008,
#21
Quote by gonzaw
You would really need to make the size of the link bigger if you want more people to notice it...


it doesn't really need to be, since telling theory 'n00bs' to check out Bangoodcharlotte's sig comes second nature to regulars here. I't like some precious shrine, so no one's gunna miss it, even if bangoodcharlotte (her?)self doesn't reply directly to a post, someone is bound to come along and suggest (her?) sig. As I did in this thread. I try to help people myself if it's a non-theory question, such as technique or ideas on how to write song in certain genres, but as soon as I see the word theory I suggest BGC's sig.
#22
Dude! go to Guitarscalesmethod.com and download the free trial version of the software. it teaches you all the scales, all the modes, in every key all over the fretboard!!

plus little tricks and tips for memorizing everything and a built in progress map so you can see where your improving and where you need to improve.

(not all of that is contained in the demo of course)

it's like a $50 program but it's totally worth it!!!!
#23
Quote by \m/Gaz
it doesn't really need to be, since telling theory 'n00bs' to check out Bangoodcharlotte's sig comes second nature to regulars here. I't like some precious shrine, so no one's gunna miss it, even if bangoodcharlotte (her?)self doesn't reply directly to a post, someone is bound to come along and suggest (her?) sig. As I did in this thread. I try to help people myself if it's a non-theory question, such as technique or ideas on how to write song in certain genres, but as soon as I see the word theory I suggest BGC's sig.


If that is the case, I would highly suggest making that lesson as complete as possible, specially all the basic "standard notation, cleffs, key signatures, tetrachords, etc" things that aren't there (and maybe some advanced stuff as well)....
There was a thread about this in the UG contribution forum, but I don't know when it will be done...
If you are going to direct every person into that lesson, you can as well make that person learn as much theory as possible...
#25
Quote by gonzaw
If that is the case, I would highly suggest making that lesson as complete as possible, specially all the basic "standard notation, cleffs, key signatures, tetrachords, etc" things that aren't there (and maybe some advanced stuff as well)....
There was a thread about this in the UG contribution forum, but I don't know when it will be done...
If you are going to direct every person into that lesson, you can as well make that person learn as much theory as possible...


so there are some things missing? It's a lot more detailed than any explanation someone could type into 1 post. And that last scentence doesn't make sense =/
#26
I think what he means, is that if everyone is going to redirect every single person with a question to that thread, it shouldn't have anything missing
#27
Quote by \m/Gaz
so there are some things missing? It's a lot more detailed than any explanation someone could type into 1 post. And that last scentence doesn't make sense =/


It misses standard notation, tetrachords, counterpoint, rhythm (irregular, regular, masculine, femenine, etc), commas and frecuency ratios, practical method for finding alterations, I would say modes of the harmonic minor scale, etc (but that is kind of unimportant for a beginner I guess, even I don't know it perfectly yet), enharmonic scales, homonimous (sp? I think) scales, compasses, and some other stuff you would find in a theory book....
Of course, it is kind of impossible to put everything into a lesson, but I would find it better if a FAQ (like the one in this forum) is made with every piece of information (written like a lesson) so people would be redirected there..


And yeah, what ovariekick says. If not, you will only make people "learn" what that lesson states, since everytime they ask a related question they would be redirected there, and that would not make them learn other aspects of theory....
Last edited by gonzaw at Jul 31, 2008,
#28
Quote by Kick2theOvaries
I suggest you don't start out learning a bunch of patterns, because your playing will sound rather mechanical (like your playing through a bunch of patterns)

Here's a nice article about intervals: http://ibreathemusic.com/article/31
and an approach i used to re-learn scales in the most musical fashion possible: http://ibreathemusic.com/article/147



EDIT: and just out of curiousity... you don't know about scales (which is a pretty basic foundation) but you have:
Gear:
6 Gibson Les Pauls
4 American Stratocasters
3 Gibson Explorers
?!?!


I suggest the opposite. DO learn it in a bunch of patterns. It'll help you visualize the scales better and you will recognize what certain patterns sound like.. just in case you ever hear it in your head and want to transpose.

Just know that scales aren't in one position and you can play them all over the neck.
#29
Quote by gonzaw
Big list


yeah, it does miss some stuff out, and re-directing people there will make those techniques harder to find in players, but it's something easy for beginners to understand, and begin to understand the basic concepts of theory, and then advance through it.

Quote by Kick2theOvaries
just out of curiousity... you don't know about scales (which is a pretty basic foundation) but you have:
Gear:
6 Gibson Les Pauls
4 American Stratocasters
3 Gibson Explorers
?!?!


Exactly what I was thinking, either a liar or a bit spoilt =/
#30
Quote by gonzaw
If that is the case, I would highly suggest making that lesson as complete as possible
I view the lesson as building a solid foundation from which I can develop more advanced ideas. I have everyone read it so anyone asking me a question understands the basics before I explain more advanced material. I do think there should be thorough lessons on the topics you listed, but Cas Corwinoid has written extensively on some of them, and Gpb has written a lot about time and rhythm.

Also, remember that several of the topics you listed are not so important to rock/metal/shred players, who make up the majority of thos forum.

In short, the link in my sig is mandatory for beginnger.
#31
Quote by bangoodcharlote
I view the lesson as building a solid foundation from which I can develop more advanced ideas. I have everyone read it so anyone asking me a question understands the basics before I explain more advanced material. I do think there should be thorough lessons on the topics you listed, but Cas Corwinoid has written extensively on some of them, and Gpb has written a lot about time and rhythm.

Also, remember that several of the topics you listed are not so important to rock/metal/shred players, who make up the majority of thos forum.

In short, the link in my sig is mandatory for beginnger.


Yeah, that lesson in your sig is perfect for rock/metal musicians...
But it kind of restricts them, like, what would they learn after reading that lesson? Surfing through ALL the lessons wouldn't be an option, and that would lead them to ask what to learn next, etc...
I would say have at least a chain of lessons, or a FAQ with the stuff they need to learn, and the stuff they would want to learn in the future.
To make it a little bit more practical perhaps