#3
Quote by derekwalden_-33
I wouldnt think so, the wood on acoustics is usually plied, and cheap quality. It wouldnt hurt to repaint it though

*This is just my experience and outlook on it, I would wait for someone else to chime in, but this is my outlook on the subject*


i intend to do it to improve its tone, ive found that guitars with oil finishes sound much richer
#4
I don't think the finish matters tone-wise. So unless you're an experienced sander, you can sand it unevenly and get weak spots and the body could collapse from string tension as well as affect the tone in negative ways.

Although I dislike painted acoustics too. If I were in your position, I'd sell it and buy a natural finished one.
Quote by breakdown123
Is there such a thing as a heavy riff with out chugging on the e string?
Last edited by CLIFF_BURTON at Jul 30, 2008,
#5
Quote by CLIFF_BURTON
I don't think the finish matters tone-wise. So unless you're an experienced sander, you can sand it unevenly and get weak spots and the body could collapse from string tension as well as affect the tone in negative ways.

Although I dislike painted acoustics too. If I were in your position, I'd sell it and buy a natural finished one.


i have a small amount of sanding experience. :[

the guitar isnt worth much of anything. its a cheap lyon(by washburn). so if i did sell it, the money wouldnt go very far.
#7
thanks for the advice.
ive got a back-up by the way, so even if i manage to mess this up, its alright
#8
a) not all acoustics have cheap, laminated tops, but in your case, i would say it probably is considering its a lyon
b) the finish does have an effect on the tone of an instrument, depending on how thick or thin the finish is, dampens the overall tone of the guitar.

solution: burn the pos.
#10
Quote by austinnj
a) not all acoustics have cheap, laminated tops, but in your case, i would say it probably is considering its a lyon
b) the finish does have an effect on the tone of an instrument, depending on how thick or thin the finish is, dampens the overall tone of the guitar.

solution: burn the pos.


burning my guitar is not a viable option at the moment
#11
If you do sand it, be careful. Especially if you use a power sander, it is easy to burn through the thin top layer of laminated wood. And you are correct, the finish does have an effect on the tone.
#12
Quote by cedricsmods
If you do sand it, be careful. Especially if you use a power sander, it is easy to burn through the thin top layer of laminated wood. And you are correct, the finish does have an effect on the tone.


what grit should i use?
#13
Quote by austinnj
a) not all acoustics have cheap, laminated tops, but in your case, i would say it probably is considering its a lyon
b) the finish does have an effect on the tone of an instrument, depending on how thick or thin the finish is, dampens the overall tone of the guitar.

solution: burn the pos.



noott really..... Unless you coat one with bloody latex or something...

EDIT: Use 220 to get the paint off, then 400 and you can oil it.
Enjoi <--- Friend me
Quote by Scowmoo
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#14
Quote by Øttər
noott really..... Unless you coat one with bloody latex or something...

EDIT: Use 220 to get the paint off, then 400 and you can oil it.


alright thanks
#15
Just BE CAREFUL. Don't go through. Stop as soon as you are through the finish.
Enjoi <--- Friend me
Quote by Scowmoo
Otter, you're my new god.
#16
Quote by Øttər
noott really..... Unless you coat one with bloody latex or something...

EDIT: Use 220 to get the paint off, then 400 and you can oil it.



http://www.mother-of-tone.com/lacquer.htm

read up.
use your brain.
wood doesnt sound the same after you put a thick layer of stain, lacquer, nitro etc.
#17
The finish on instruments only matters essentially when the instrument is made to push air. IE: Hollowbodies/Acoustics etc things that are naturally acoustic.

This BS about lacquer dampening or ruining an electrics tone is complete crap. Some of the best sounding guitars I've played were finished with poly resin/nitro.

People believe any "mind candy" you throw at them when it comes to tone. If they say something helps tone and it seems logical that it COULD help, then people seem to have an implied improvement in tone.

That dude made it sound like you could by some cheap squier, take some sandpaper to it and its suddenly it's a phenomenal instrument that sounds better than anything finished in poly resin

Damn what if he's right! We can all go out and buy a $180 squiers!! Why pay $2000+ for a guitar that's going to sound worse than $200- !! Us custom guitar builders are in SERIOUS trouble ha...


lame.

wow off topic slightly aye? =] But back on topic yeah it will affect acoustic tone! and depending on the model you have you WILL be able to sand down any finish, as long as it's not some cheap painted acoustic that very well could use some sort of ply, or laminated wood simply from cutting construction costs.

Take a look, find out what its made of and do yer thing! =]

- Josh
#18
^I've got an 80 quid LP copy that sounds better than any real gibson LP standard I've played that has been made in the last 10 years. I did change the pickups on it but still... You pay a lot for that headstock

As far as refinishing an acoustic with oil... If you don't like the tone of your guitar then there is no harm in refinishing but if you do like your guitars tone then you will compleatly change it when you refinish. Oil finishes tend to be a bit heavy and dampen acoustic tone so for the most part, you should avoid them. True oil is a good oil finish but you can't use it on rosewood. If you want a good sounding finish on an acoustic that can be hand rubbed then try shellac.
Not taking any online orders.
#19
so if hes talking about refinishing an acoustic, why are you talking about electrics not being effected by finish. and no i dont believe any "mind candy" or whatever the **** you called it that gets thrown at me. i believe that if you coat wood with a finish, and that wood has to vibrate to produce sound, that the finish will effect that vibration.


edit: buy the luthiers handbook by r. siminoff and read the chapter on finishes. its science, not ****ing mind candy.
pages 64-69 should change your mind.
Last edited by austinnj at Jul 31, 2008,
#20
ha cool. Thing is I've seen guitars made out of metal/fiberglass/acrylics, and I've seen guitars that essentially are made out of almost nothing when it comes to body; ie: just enough material for bridge/pickup/string mounts etc. According to your theory they would all sound totally ridiculously horrible because they're not naturally vibrating to create sound. You're totally wrong when it comes to a normal ELECTRIC guitar.

Do you even know how a normal pickup works for an electric guitar? The sound from an electric guitar isn't produced by the wood vibrations, the "wood vibration" has an extremely minimal affect on anything at all. Simple as that.

This is a fairly informative article by JET guitar maker

JET - Tone Treatise

People, and you specifically, are over emphasizing tone directly related to your precious wood vibrations. Think what you want though, if you're happy with your sanded down $180 squier, more power to ya

Lets compare why dont we; I'm 50% building my guitar, which will be finished in Polyester Resin. Lets record sound samples and let people judge
#21
That speaks of resonance combined with electronics as the main interaction points to tone in an electric guitar,

This, also from the Jet site speaks of thickness of finishes

***

"Q: "Does a thick finish affect a guitar's tone?"
Several other guitar builders have been claiming that thick paint adversely affects tone. Supposedly a thinner 'natural' finish such as oil or nitrocellulose lacquer won't 'soak up' the resonance of the wood. You should know one thing...

This notion is pure bull****. Here's why.

In an accoustic instrument, such as a jazz archtop or folk guitar, indeed it is a fact that a thick finish deadens or changes the tone. After all, the tops in such guitars are painstakingly carved, thicknessed, and braced so as to deliver the best tone and most volume. The top is the soundboard, like the cone of a speaker. All of the sound projected by the instrument depends upon it's ability to vibrate freely. Painting a thick finish on the top adds a lot of mass, and consequently the top is no longer effective as a soundboard.

Electric guitars do not have soundboards. Thus, a thick finish cannot deaden the tone.

Volume and projection are handled by electronics. That leaves only resonance to consider. Resonance (and the resulting tone) of an electric guitar is the sum of the vibrational interactions between all of its components. Paint is only one factor (a small one) among many, in the overall design of an electric guitar to sound as good as possible.

So, why is this sort of falsehood being promulgated?

It is not because guitars painted in polyester resin don't look good. You only have to see one to know that. And all other things being equal, would you want a guitar that looks like a large exotic wood jewel, or one that looks like your grandmother's dining room table? Trust me, all other things - such as tone - are equal. The thing that is not equal is the skill, effort and expense involved in attaining a stunning and durable finish. Any one with a rag, automotive buffer, and a $10 bottle of oil can put on an oil finish. Nitrocellulose lacquer is a little harder and pricier, you need a spray setup, sanders and buffers to do it. With polyester you need more sanders and buffers because it is four times as hard to rub out and polish. You also need an egg timer in the booth because the pot life is only fifteen minutes. No time to lolligag when a $300 spray gun is on the line, not to mention half a quart of spray mix that cost almost as much as a half gallon of lacquer. I know what I'm talking about, I have used all of these methods extensively at one time or another. In fact the original JET prototypes were painted in thin nitrocellulose lacqer, and they didn't even sound as good as the JET Earlewoods being made now.

Think about these facts the next time you read the "thick finishes rob tone blah blah blah" line.
*****

Again believe what you want, but I'm still throwing out the challenge to ya


And even if i'm totally wrong and you're totally right think about that fact that in an electric, when I was speaking of "wood vibrations" I was trying to imply, or say that, the tone seemingly shouldn't change by an electric guitar being able to vibrate openly to the air around it. An electric has such low volume and push acoustically that there is minimal, if any difference by subduing the acoustic vibrations
Last edited by AviaCustom at Aug 1, 2008,