#1
Just looking for possibilities to play over a C7b9 in a jazz context. I know I can play the arpeggio, can I play HW diminished? My teacher mentioned something about Melodic Minor as well. Thanks guys.
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#2
Quote by aetherspear
can I play HW diminished?


Yes, C Phrygian Dominant and C Super Locrian also.
Last edited by mdc at Aug 1, 2008,
#3
How long are you on the C7b9? I've never really seen something like that for longer than a measure.
#4
Phrygian Dominant FTW!


Melodic Minor: 1,2,b3,4,5,6,7
Dom7b9: 1, 3, 5, b7, b9

b3 + 3
7 + b7
9 + b9

Don't Mix.

You can try it for yourself too. Play the notes Eb, B, and D over C7b9 (and it's E, Bb, and Db notes). Minor 2nd clashes for the lose.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


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#6
Quote by aetherspear
^Yeah I knew that, I thought it was maybe a mode of melodic minor.

Maybe he said Harmonic Minor? In which Phrygian Dominant is a mode.

Speaking of Harmonic and Melodic Minor, here's a great thread on them if you want to check it out: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=733397
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#7
Yeah from Harmonic minor it's phrygian dominant, but in jazz melodic minor is much more common so C altered (aka 'super locrian') would be the melodic minor mode (comes form Db melodic minor) That gives you the 1 3 & b7 of C7 as well as the possible alterations for added tension/color. HW diminished would also work over C7b9
#8
The melodic minor bit he's referring to is the 7th mode, which is the Super Locrian scale. Also, consider playing an E/G/Bb/Dbdim7 arpeggio.
#9
Quote by mdc
Yes, C Phrigian Dominant and C Super Locrian also.


If you're not keen on learning a whole new set of 3 note per string patterns and notes that be the Melodic Minor (not that I don't recommend it), it's still possible to outline the sound of the altered scale by using a couple of Minor Pentatonic boxes believe it or not!

Here's the first:

For C7b9, simply play a Minor Pentatonic a minor 3rd above. So this'll be Eb Minor Pentatonic.

The notes: Eb Gb(b5) Ab(#5) Bb(b7) Db(b9)

That'll give you quite a heavily altered sound.

The other option is a little more tasteful imo:

Simply play the Minor Pentatonic from the root, but don't play the root. Start on the b2.

The notes: Db(b2) E(3rd) F(P4) G(P5) Bb(b7)

I prefer this one cuz it's only outlining the chord tones.

If you decide to use any of these options, I would at some point land on the C, just to bring it home.
#10
Quote by mdc
Yes, C Phrigian Dominant and C Super Locrian also.
Damn, beat me. Those are the only logical answers I can think of. Good play sir.
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#12
for the Minor Pentatonic idea.


On the topic of pentatonic, don't you think it's funny that Phrygian pentatonic doesn't have the b2 making it a more "minor" pentatonic than the actual minor pentatonic scale.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#13
Quote by metal4all
for the Minor Pentatonic idea.


On the topic of pentatonic, don't you think it's funny that Phrygian pentatonic doesn't have the b2 making it a more "minor" pentatonic than the actual minor pentatonic scale.
Whats a phrygian pentatonic?
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#15
Quote by demonofthenight
Whats a phrygian pentatonic?

3rd mode of major pentatonic scale
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#16
Quote by metal4all
3rd mode of major pentatonic scale
So is that a aeolian/phrygian (I dont think it matters, as the seconds being omited) without the second and the fifth? So would you play that pentatonic scale just by raising the fifth a semitone?

Somehow I fail to see the point
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        L.
#17
Quote by demonofthenight
So is that a aeolian/phrygian (I dont think it matters, as the seconds being omited) without the second and the fifth? So would you play that pentatonic scale just by raising the fifth a semitone?

Somehow I fail to see the point

My head hurts
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#19
Quote by confusius
You could use mixolydian b9 yes?


^ 5th mode of Harmonic Major
#20
Gah.


I hate thinking of it that way. I would have taken much longer if I actually knew the harmonic major and started looking at it's modes. Right now I just though: ok, 7 chord I can use mixo and if it's got a b9 I'll just alter that and voila!