Poll: Evolution or Devolution?
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View poll results: Evolution or Devolution?
Evolution
41 64%
Devolution
23 36%
Voters: 64.
Page 1 of 2
#1
Hey guys sorry. I deleted my last thread because I thought you'd all think my idea was stupid. So, I just kind of want to have a little scientific debate or with anyone who knows about evolution. Well, we are supposed to be the known peak of evolution at this point we are the best the world has. But are we truly a step in evolution, or are we a step in devolution. My argument is that we are heading for devolution because evolution is achieved in a series of adaptations meant to survive in the world around the specific creature. Well we are the only animals that are bringing their own doom. The majority of scientists believe we will cause ourselves to die off. Discuss...
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#2
If we evolved from monkeys and apes, why are there still monkeys and apes?
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#3
Quote by jeff541
If we evolved from monkeys and apes, why are there still monkeys and apes?


Common ancestor, not necessarily the same species of monkey as seen today.
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#4
Quote by jeff541
If we evolved from monkeys and apes, why are there still monkeys and apes?


We didn't we share an ancestor. You are misinformed of how evolution works. A monkey didn't just become a human. Also the reason they are still there is the same reason there are other animals. Random mutations. Technically we are related to everything. The origin of species. That is where the animals kingdom came from. We are all in the same kingdom because everything has a common ancestor and from kingdom on the less animals the closer the most recent common ancestor is if that makes sense.
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#5
Quote by jeff541
If we evolved from monkeys and apes, why are there still monkeys and apes?
We share a common ancestry. We didn't evolve from chimpanzees, orangutans, or gorillas, so that's about as valid an argument as a chimpanzee saying "If I evolved from from humans, why are there still humans".

Even if we did evolve from the species of monkeys we see today, evolution is an adaptation to environments, and let's say there are two groups of the same species. If one is very well-suited for its environment, then it won't really evolve as fast as a species that isn't as well-suited.
#7
Well have we caused ourselves to die off yet?

Global warming hasn't been proved, the average temperature has gone up and down since the beggining of time.

And I havn't been informed of any other way we are killing ourselves.
#8
Quote by marc137


I know that I said so far known. There are like impossible criteria to meet for evolution to stop and one is to stop mutations. I'm just saying. Are we a devolution or an evolution? Basically because we will bring our doom. No othwer animal has done that. So are we truly evolved, evolution means better equipped to survive.
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#9
well you see we are adapting to enviorment still, the average person goes to work sleeps eats blah blah goes under prolonged periods of stress and our bodies are adapting to that as our life style, of course its taking a toll on us because a hundered years ago or so there wasnt near the amount of hazards as now, and many people did phisical labor, as we speak were having a hard time adapting with all of our diseases and whatnot. But we can counteract that with the fact that we are smarter, but if we didnt have that over any other creature wed be dead due to the fact that without technology disease would kill us off faster than anything. When you think about it, when you save a person who had a birth defect or got a virus or soemthing easily, and then they have kids, you just did the opposite of evolving because all you did was spread that flaw, so in a way we arent advancing much. At the same time 200 , 500, or 1000 years isnt enough time to evolve anything really. Its takes millions and billions of years to evolve.
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#10
Quote by Regression
Well have we caused ourselves to die off yet?

Global warming hasn't been proved, the average temperature has gone up and down since the beggining of time.

And I havn't been informed of any other way we are killing ourselves.


Nuclear Weapons are a big inevitable event in our future. Sure right now we won't use them. Someone will and then nuclear war we will all die. If not from the blasts then from the fallout.
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#11
Quote by tayroar
Nuclear Weapons are a big inevitable event in our future. Sure right now we won't use them. Someone will and then nuclear war we will all die. If not from the blasts then from the fallout.


Who says it's inevitable? As far as I know nobody is anywhere near trying to use one.
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Quote by Mad Marius
That's like saying you got cancer that comes with AIDS.
#12
Quote by LaGrange
well you see we are adapting to enviorment still, the average person goes to work sleeps eats blah blah goes under prolonged periods of stress and our bodies are adapting to that as our life style, of course its taking a toll on us because a hundered years ago or so there wasnt near the amount of hazards as now, and many people did phisical labor, as we speak were having a hard time adapting with all of our diseases and whatnot. But we can counteract that with the fact that we are smarter, but if we didnt have that over any other creature wed be dead due to the fact that without technology disease would kill us off faster than anything. When you think about it, when you save a person who had a birth defect or got a virus or soemthing easily, and then they have kids, you just did the opposite of evolving because all you did was spread that flaw, so in a way we arent advancing much. At the same time 200 , 500, or 1000 years isnt enough time to evolve anything really. Its takes millions and billions of years to evolve.


That is another point. Recently we have been allowing flaws into our gene pool.
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#13
Quote by tayroar
Nuclear Weapons are a big inevitable event in our future. Sure right now we won't use them. Someone will and then nuclear war we will all die. If not from the blasts then from the fallout.


So therefore cockroaches are superior?
#14
Quote by Riddler
Who says it's inevitable? As far as I know nobody is anywhere near trying to use one.


Not now but as many people that have them it won't be long before someone gets pissed and lets loose. It will probably be in a war we don't predict yet. But we have the gun it will more than likely be used at some point in our future. Otherwise everyone would have dismantled.
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#15
Technically devolution because we're protecting stupid people from dying.
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#16
Quote by Regression
So therefore cockroaches are superior?


Well, in terms of adaptation, yes. They have survived since prehistoric times.
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#17
Quote by Regression
Well have we caused ourselves to die off yet?

Global warming hasn't been proved, the average temperature has gone up and down since the beggining of time.

And I havn't been informed of any other way we are killing ourselves.



+1. Global warming is political BS... I still picked deevolution because I can't grasp evolving beyond conciousness. Conciousness just seems like overkill when it comes to survival of a species
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#18
Quote by tayroar
Well, in terms of adaptation, yes. They have survived since prehistoric times.


I'd rather be a human.

The average life expectancy has increased alot if you compare to medieval times.

It may not be the scientific term of evolution, but our technologies are evolving, and therefore we are going forward. Evolution takes a long time, there is no way we could adapt to something new so fast, so we manipulate.

Also, we are losing our hair and our little toe.

In the future humans won't have them. I feel sorry for people in the Year 3000. Those poor, poor bald people.
#19
Quote by Regression
I'd rather be a human.

The average life expectancy has increased alot if you compare to medieval times.

It may not be the scientific term of evolution, but our technologies are evolving, and therefore we are going forward. Evolution takes a long time, there is no way we could adapt to something new so fast, so we manipulate.

Also, we are losing our hair and our little toe.

In the future humans won't have them. I feel sorry for people in the Year 3000.


The average life expectancy is another thing that is killing us. As technology keeps us alive longer the less food we have more the masses. The less space we have for the masses. The more useless people we have surviving. Life expectancy being higher is a step back for the species but a step forward for the individual.
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#20
Quote by tayroar
The average life expectancy is another thing that is killing us. As technology keeps us alive longer the less food we have more the masses. The less space we have for the masses. The more useless people we have surviving. Life expectancy being higher is a step back for the species but a step forward for the individual.


Well if humans all became vegetarian we'd be fine. But as an adaption to the place we live it's a step forward.

And also, the population will stop rising soon. In some countries the population is decreasing.

And if 2 people only have 2 children max, then the populations will begin to decrease.
#21
OK, one thing. Devolution would be going backwards down the so-called 'evolutionary ladder'; we'd slowly evolve into monkeys. So really, we're not devolving.

And you seem to think that we're at a peak. Why? There are certainly improvements which can be made in the human species.

Just because we might end up all dying doesn't mean we're 'devolving'. Look at the dodo. It was the pinnacle of evolution in its time. The species could survive and prosper on its islands, and the dodos were quite happy. Then a foreign thing that they had never had contact with before came along and killed every last one of them. I'm talking, of course, about humans. Now, would you argure that the dodo was 'devolving' in the few hundred thousand years before humans came along? No. That would be idiocy.

The only difference between the dodo's extinction and humanity's potential extinction at our own hands is where the previously unknown thing is coming from. With dodos, it was a new species. With humans, it's our own inventions. Are we 'devolving' because we can't stand up to bullets or radiation? No.
#22
Quote by cokeisbetter
OK, one thing. Devolution would be going backwards down the so-called 'evolutionary ladder'; we'd slowly evolve into monkeys. So really, we're not devolving.

And you seem to think that we're at a peak. Why? There are certainly improvements which can be made in the human species.

Just because we might end up all dying doesn't mean we're 'devolving'. Look at the dodo. It was the pinnacle of evolution in its time. The species could survive and prosper on its islands, and the dodos were quite happy. Then a foreign thing that they had never had contact with before came along and killed every last one of them. I'm talking, of course, about humans. Now, would you argure that the dodo was 'devolving' in the few hundred thousand years before humans came along? No. That would be idiocy.

The only difference between the dodo's extinction and humanity's potential extinction at our own hands is where the previously unknown thing is coming from. With dodos, it was a new species. With humans, it's our own inventions. Are we 'devolving' because we can't stand up to bullets or radiation? No.


Thankyou.

It seems TS isn't talking so much about the scientific aspect of it though. What I wanted to say though just didn't know how to say it, and didn't have any examples.

kudos to you.
#23
Are we not men?

We are Devo!

Are we not men?

D E V O
I'm the same as I was when I was six years old
And oh my god I feel so damn old
I don't really feel anything
Last edited by StreetLight3989 at Aug 5, 2008,
#25
Quote by cokeisbetter
OK, one thing. Devolution would be going backwards down the so-called 'evolutionary ladder'; we'd slowly evolve into monkeys. So really, we're not devolving.

And you seem to think that we're at a peak. Why? There are certainly improvements which can be made in the human species.

Just because we might end up all dying doesn't mean we're 'devolving'. Look at the dodo. It was the pinnacle of evolution in its time. The species could survive and prosper on its islands, and the dodos were quite happy. Then a foreign thing that they had never had contact with before came along and killed every last one of them. I'm talking, of course, about humans. Now, would you argure that the dodo was 'devolving' in the few hundred thousand years before humans came along? No. That would be idiocy.

The only difference between the dodo's extinction and humanity's potential extinction at our own hands is where the previously unknown thing is coming from. With dodos, it was a new species. With humans, it's our own inventions. Are we 'devolving' because we can't stand up to bullets or radiation? No.



No I meant we are the supposed known peak. My rationality of us being devolutions of other creatures is that we are the only ones to bring on our own doom which will more than likely happen. Evolution is adapting to survive better so if we bring on our own doom, I'm sure you cvan make the connection.
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#26
Quote by tayroar
The majority of scientists believe we will cause ourselves to die off. Discuss...


uh... what?
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#27
Quote by Regression
Thankyou.

It seems TS isn't talking so much about the scientific aspect of it though. What I wanted to say though just didn't know how to say it, and didn't have any examples.

kudos to you.


No, I'm not talking scientifically more of philosophical point of how its ironic that we are supposed the most evolved creatures but we are the only ones the endanger themselves. That is more of what I'm getting at. I know we are actually evolved from our predecessors.
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#28
Quote by Kensai
uh... what?


Yeah, when asked about the end of the world Steohen Hawking said that it will more than likely be our own doing and many other people believe that Stephen Hawkling is the only name I can think of.
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#29
Quote by tayroar
Yeah, when asked about the end of the world Steohen Hawking said that it will more than likely be our own doing and many other people believe that Stephen Hawkling is the only name I can think of.


Did you do a poll?

Can I have a link or something? And it's probably true, but more because there aren't that many other ways to go.
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#30
Devolution is pseudoscience.

Evolution is adapting to survive better so if we bring on our own doom


Evolution is a change in allele frequency.
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#31
There is no such thing as Devolution. Evolution isn't "progress", it's just adaptation.
#32
Quote by Kensai
Did you do a poll?

Can I have a link or something? And it's probably true, but more because there aren't that many other ways to go.


I'll try to find it but it was on one of History Channel's the world is gonna end soon shows that I watched. They were talking about black holes and stuff and Stephen Hawking was all. erm....yeah...More than likely we will do it to ourselves.
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#33
We are still evolving biologically, yes.

But in terms of mental capacity, average intelligence, and logic and reasoning, i guess you could say we are devolving. We are stone age minds with nuclear weapons.

I watched an interesting documentary a while ago talking about how humans will eventually become too technologically advanced beyond our biological and psychological limits. And that may be what could destroy us.

Think about it, in 50,000 years, we went from living in caves to building nuclear weapons and going to the Moon and Mars. And in that time, our bodies have changed very, very little.
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#34
Quote by thrashfan
We are still evolving biologically, yes.

But in terms of mental capacity, average intelligence, and logic and reasoning, i guess you could say we are devolving. We are stone age minds with nuclear weapons.

I watched an interesting documentary a while ago talking about how humans will eventually become too technologically advanced beyond our biological and psychological limits. And that may be what could destroy us.

Think about it, in 50,000 years, we went from living in caves to building nuclear weapons and going to the Moon and Mars. And in that time, our bodies have changed very, very little.


There that is what I was trying to get at. I'm sorry for not makinjg that clear everyone. More our logic and reasoning and all that.
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#35
we change based on the abilities we need. i dont believe that devolution is a proper term to be using. if we are changing, it is towards what our species feels is necessary to survive in our current world. so we are evolving.
#36
Quote by tayroar
we are supposed to be the known peak of evolution at this point
Sounds like you fundamentally misunderstand evolution.
#38
Like most things in life, we shall turn to Pokemon for the answer. I present to you, good sir, two facts.

  • Without evolution, how would we get Venusaur?
  • Who ever heard of Venusaur devolving back down to a Bulbasaur?


Thus, devolution is a flawed concept.
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#39
^
Quote by thrashfan
Think about it, in 50,000 years, we went from living in caves to building nuclear weapons and going to the Moon and Mars. And in that time, our bodies have changed very, very little.

Evolution doesn't go that fast. 50,000 years ago, most species were pretty similar to their modern-day counterparts. Our mental capacity hasn't changed much, either. What's happened is that we've gone from single little tribes with very little contact between each other to one massive lump of people who can share information very easily, and that's what enables us to go the the moon or Mars. Not evolution.
#40
Quote by smb
Sounds like you fundamentally misunderstand evolution.


I understand evolution. I was trying to say we are supposedly the best the world has at this point.
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