#1
Alright, these are most of the things I've learnt by studying theory from here, and from writing the major, minor, harmonic minor, melodic minor, and Major and minor pentatonic scales in every key on blank fretboards on paper.

I was just hoping that a theory guru or someone who knows their stuff fairly well could check these little box patterns over for me and make sure that I'm not practing the wrong patterns.

The movable major scale pattern:


|0|R|-|-|-|-|
|-|o|-|o|-|-|
|o|-|o|o|-|-|
|o|-|o|R|-|-|
|o|o|-|o|-|-|
|-|R|-|o|-|-|

1 2 3 4 5 6 7
R w w h w w w h


The movable minor scale pattern:

|R|-|-|-|-|-|
|o|o|-|o|-|-|
|o|-|o|-|-|-|
|o|-|R|-|-|-|
|o|-|o|o|-|-|
|R|-|o|o|-|-|



1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
R w h w w h w w


Harmonized minor scale pattern:

|o|R|-|-|-|-|
|-|o|o|-|-|-|
|-|o|-|o|-|-|
|-|-|o|R|-|-|
|-|o|-|o|o|-|
|-|R|-|o|o|-|


1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7
R w h w w h w+h h


Melodic Minor scale pattern:

|o|R|-|-|-|-|
|-|o|-|o|-|-|
|o|-|o|o|-|-|
|o|-|o|R|-|-|
|-|o|-|o|-|-|
|-|R|-|o|o|-|


I won't go over the pentatonics cuz if I have the ones above right then I should have the pentatonics right.

So is that correct? Are those the correct shapes?
#2
you missed a note on the minor scale:
|R|-|-|-|-|-|
|o|o|-|o|-|-|
|o|-|o|-|-|-|
|o|-|R|-|o|-|
|o|-|o|o|-|-|
|R|-|o|o|-|-|

other than that, at a quick look it looked fine to me...i'll double check when i have more time, but i didn't notice anything else
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#3
I'm confused, why practice those patterns? Why not practice the scale over the whole fretboard, it's much more constructive.
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#4
he's learning the movable patterns first, then he'll learn the 2nd position and so on, gradually getting all the way across the fretboard. you can't just learn it in one big go, it'd kill your head.

to ts, sorry if you're actually a girl coz i kept saying he lol
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#5
Quote by M.B.MetalTabber
you missed a note on the minor scale:
|R|-|-|-|-|-|
|o|o|-|o|-|-|
|o|-|o|-|-|-|
|o|-|R|-|o|-|
|o|-|o|o|-|-|
|R|-|o|o|-|-|

other than that, at a quick look it looked fine to me...i'll double check when i have more time, but i didn't notice anything else


Ah I see. I did put that note in there, ( I was looking at my papar with all of the scales in the key of A, and that note would be B right? ) I put it in there, I just didn't put in that spot, I had a weirder box pattern.

and to Steven Seagull. I've written the entire scale up through the entire fretboard, I started at the first string, at the key note of whichever scale I was doing and just read the notes then to the next string. So techincally, I can easily learn the patterns all over the fretboard, but I decided to learn the ones in 1st position first.

Also, MetalTabber, I'm a dude. lol.
#7
Here just some of my guitar theory notes also. Kinda sounds like a lesson, because I was just writing it like that in case I needed to show someone else, but I can't teach anyone if it's incorrect. So can one of you guys check this over too???


E|-F-|-F#|-G-|-G#|-A-|-A#|-B-|-C-|-C#|-D-|-D#|-E-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
B|-C-|-C#|-D-|-D#|-E-|-F-|-F#|-G-|-G#|-A-|-A#|-B-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
G|-G#|-A-|-A#|-B-|-C-|-C#|-D-|-D#|-E-|-F-|-F#|-G-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
D|-D#|-E-|-F-|-F#|-G-|-G#|-A-|-A#|-B-|-C-|-C#|-D-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
A|-A#|-B-|-C-|-C#|-D-|-D#|-E-|-F-|-F#|-G-|-G#|-A-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
E|-F-|-F#|-G-|-G#|-A-|-A#|-B-|-C-|-C#|-D-|-D#|-E-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

The notes above are the notes of the guitar. Strings are notated 1-6, 1 being the thinnest string and highest in pitch and 6 being the fattest and lowest pitch. They are:


1.E
2.B
3.G
4.D
5.A
6.E

The notes in music go like this:

A B C D E F G

Now, in between every single note, except for B and C, and except for E and F, there are sharps or flats. These notes are called enharmonic, because they have two names but are of the same pitch. With the enharmonic notes, the fully chromatic scale is:

A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G#

alternatively, you can use flats as well:

A Bb B C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab


All music on the guitar in general is based off of the combination of harmony and melody. Harmony is when two notes are sounded at the same time, often guitar chords are called the harmony of a song. Melody is when notes are sounded seperately to certain rhythms.

If you look deeper into that, then you find the major scale. That's what all music is about, all scales, and all chords. All guitar solos and riffs and rhythms. It's everything. The major scale is very important. To learn music in and of itself it is important to know the major scale. First, you have to learn some things.
In a scale there are 8 notes, in a single scale, but in extender versions of a scale there a any number of notes. The notes are called Scale Degrees, and all have special names.

1. Root, or Tonic. ( The root or tonic of a main riff is the key it's in. So take the main riff to Unholy Confessions by Avenged Sevenfold, the very first note of the very first riff is D, and that chord is also called a D because it's lowest note is D. Or the root. Another name for it is the tonic. )
2. Supertonic
3. Mediant
4. Subdominant
5. Dominant
6. Submediant
7. Leading Tone
8. Octave

In music there are a few approaches to creating scales. You can use Wholesteps, (W) and halfsteps, (H) or you can use the interval system. I personally think the Wholestep/Halfstep path is easiest, but the Interval Structure is also a helpful tool.

1. Wholesteps/Halfsteps
-------------------------------------
If you're playing guitar, you should know what a fret is. Technically, it's the metal pieces located on the guitar's neck the go all the way across the neck. Most people just call the space in between them frets. For example, the 1st fret is the space in between the Neck of the guitar and the first fret. The 2nd fret is the space behind the second fret and the 3rd is the space between the 3rd and 2nd metal pieces. It's easy.

On the guitar, with the Wholestep and Halfstep approach, you don't have to know a single note to create many forms of music. However, using it the easy way will end up with you playing every single thing you learn on one string, because it's easiest to say WWHWWWH and just count 2212221 on one string. If you want to explore across the fretboard rather than along it, you'll want to be able to combine across and along fluently. This comes with practice.

Now. One the guitar. Say you start at an single fret. Say you start at the 8 fret on the lowest, fattest E string. That note is C. Which means, that anything you create from that note, is in the key of C. It's your starting note, it's the tonic. It's the key of which ever little lick or song or whatever it is you play. So say you wanted to make a C major scale. The major scale, when made up of those little H and W letters is W-W-H-W-W-W-H A common mistake is that people often use these and Formulas together when working with music. You see, this system starts on the supertonic, or second scale degree, and the last H, isn't played unless you travel to the octave.

Basically, it may be easier to write it like this:

Root-W-W-H-W-W-W-H

Start on the root, then go Whole, which is two frets on the guitar, then go Whole again, another two frets, then Half, one fret, then Whole and soon enough, you've hit the octave. Without prior knowledge of the scale, you should recognize it as the Do-Re-Mi-Fa-So-La-Ti-Da thing that all your music teachers tought you in school.

This can be done in any key you want. If you start on F# and go W-W-H-W-W-W-H than you've got yourself an F# major scale. That's how that works. Now. Formulas are the next big thing. They use intervals. Everything centered around those formulas are centered around the major scale.

2. Intervals/Formulas
-----------------------------------------

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

You can remember that, right? Well that's the major scaled. That's every major scale. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 can be applied to the A major scale, E major scale, even C major scale:

A B C# D E F# G#
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

C D E F G A B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

See?

Well, many times when looking up or trying to understand how to build scales you'll come across formulas instead of the Wholestep/Halfstep thing, and that's why it's important to learn both.

Say you see 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7, The minor scale, and you want to hear the minor scale. Well first you decide the key, or perhaps you already have it decided for you, then you just compare it to the major scale. Examples:

You want an A minor scale. So take A major:

A B C# D E F# G#
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

and then do what it says to do. It says to flatten the 3rd Scale Dregree, b3. So do it, what do you get if you flatten ( Lower by 1 fret ) C#? C. do the same to 6 and 7. If you do it, then you should get

A B C D E F G

That's how it works, it's all compared to the major scale. Which is why it's so important. It's a great idea to get your major scale down pat so that you can recite the notes of it in your sleep. Then try to do it in every single key. Until it's very clear that you know what notes are in what major scale, once you know that, it's time to start learning formulas:

Minor: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Harmonic Minor: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Melodic Minor: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7
Major Pentatonic: 1 2 3 5 6 ( Notice how seven and four are missing. That means just exclude those Scale Degrees. )
Minor Pentatonic: 1 b3 4 5 b7 ( Once again, exclude the missing Scale Degrees, but you stil lhave to flatten the 7th and the 3. )

There are certain scales called modes. You can just regard them as scales for now, don't worry about them just yet. Although you may want to learn the names of them. They are:

1. Ionian
2. Dorian
3. Phyrgian
4. Lydian
5. Mixolydian
6. Aeolian
7. Locrian

Modes can also be looked at as scales with the exact same notes as another scale, but it starts on a different root note and ends on a different octave. For example, the C major scale.

C D E F G A B

Then if you start on the supertonic ( D ) and use those notes up to the next octave, ( D E F G A B C ) then, you get D Dorian. Say you start on the Submediant ( A ) and use the note and build up to the next octave, ( A B C D E F G ) then you get the A Aeolian scale.
Now, you may wonder why the 6th interval of the C major scale is call Aeolian, and the Dorian is what it is. Well, the order of modes above is the order to use every time. Here's a way to get every mode.

Say you want an E Mixolydian mode. Or say you want a C Lydian mode, or an F Phyrgian mode.

Well, you take the Major Scale, it's the most important thing, of each of those keys.

E major:
E F# G# A B C# D#
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

C major:
C D E F G A B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

F Major:
F G A Bb C D E
1 2 3 4 5 6 7


It's relitively easy to notice that each scale has seven steps, which you can relate to the names of the modes and their specific order. The first interval is the first in the order of modes. So, if you build a scale using the same notes as the major scale of the key you're working on, from the first note of that major scale. Then you get an Ionian mode, or basically the exact same thing a the major scale. The note name of the mode is dependent on the note name of the major scale you built it off of.

So, to get an E Mixolydian like we wanted, how would we approach this? Well, we have the notes of the major. And in the order of modes you can see that a Mixolydian scale is the 5th in order. So we have to build a scale with the notes of E major starting and ending on it's fifth interval ( B ). A mistake commonly made is that a person will build a major scale or another type of scale from that root note and call it a scale, and that's not the case, it's supposed to be the exact same notes as the major scale you're building from. Get it?

So.

E Mixolydian:
B C# D# E F# G# A
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

C Lyidan: ( Lydian is the fourth in the order, so use the fourth interval. )
F G A B C D E
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

F Phyrgian: ( Phyrgian is the third in the order of modes, so use the third interval from that key's respective major scale. )
A Bb C D E F G
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

See, modes are pretty easy.
#8
The bit at the bottom where you've written the modes are incorrect - note in bold

B Mixolydian:
B C# D# E F# G# A
1 2 3 4 5 6 b7

F Lyidan: ( Lydian is the fourth in the order, so use the fourth interval. )
F G A B C D E
1 2 3 #4 5 6 7

A Phyrgian: ( Phyrgian is the third in the order of modes, so use the third interval from that key's respective major scale. )
A Bb C D E F G
1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Edit: Your notes are correct, your intervals are not.
Last edited by mdc at Aug 5, 2008,
#9
Quote by mdc
The bit at the bottom where you've written the modes are incorrect - note in bold

E Mixolydian:
B C# D# E F# G# A
1 2 3 4 5 6 b7

C Lyidan: ( Lydian is the fourth in the order, so use the fourth interval. )
F G A B C D E
1 2 3 #4 5 6 7

F Phyrgian: ( Phyrgian is the third in the order of modes, so use the third interval from that key's respective major scale. )
A Bb C D E F G
1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Edit: Your notes are correct, your intervals are not.


Well, the notes are correct? Right? I guess I didn't do the interval structure properly because even though I did use the major scales with ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ) I used the notes from them, I guess I didn't regard the intervals.

well... I'll remember that mistake, but was anything else wrong?

EDIT: I just read your edit, that's what I thought. lol.
#10
I read it pretty quickly tbh, but everything else seemed fine 'n' dandy!

Edit: NO, not fine 'n' dandy.

You've labelled the modes wrong! I'll leave that to you to figure out. Let us know if you're not sure
Last edited by mdc at Aug 5, 2008,
#11
Quote by mdc
I read it pretty quickly tbh, but everything else seemed fine 'n' dandy!

Edit: NO, not fine 'n' dandy.

You've labelled the modes wrong! I'll leave that to you to figure out. Let us know if you're not sure


labeled them wrong? Do you mean I have them out of order...? Or are you just talking about the multiple typos I made. lol.
#14
You don't suck, everyone has to start somewhere, and looking at your notes it seems you got a pretty good foundation to build on.
#15
Quote by mdc
You don't suck, everyone has to start somewhere, and looking at your notes it seems you got a pretty good foundation to build on.


Thanks, that helps. lol. I know that this stuff is important, it fascinates me so much how it all fits together. I just can't wait til I learn it all and can start putting it to use better. Haha.
#16
I just think learning boxes individually can get you stuck in them - it's not actually all that difficult or complicated to approach the scale as a whole. If you learn the notes and learn the chord progression derived from the scale first then that accounts for most of the notes straight away, and from there it's a simple exercise to locate your root notes in or around the chord shapes and drop in the extra intervals that aren't accounted for.

To me that's a far more constructive way of approaching things as it helps cement the relationship betwen chords and scales and also encourages you to look at the whole fretboard.
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#17
Quote by steven seagull
I just think learning boxes individually can get you stuck in them - it's not actually all that difficult or complicated to approach the scale as a whole. If you learn the notes and learn the chord progression derived from the scale first then that accounts for most of the notes straight away, and from there it's a simple exercise to locate your root notes in or around the chord shapes and drop in the extra intervals that aren't accounted for.

To me that's a far more constructive way of approaching things as it helps cement the relationship betwen chords and scales and also encourages you to look at the whole fretboard.


But...

Mr. Seagull... I've already written and understood the notes of each and every scale in every position on the fretboard, or at least I possess the material to use them later on. I've taken a whole 24 fret fretboard and put them on a page. Then I star with A and wrote down the Major, Minor, Harmonized minor, melodic minor, and the pentatonics, and I'm still going to write a few other scales, and then did A#/Bb then B then C then C#/Db

and so on. And I have plenty of material, but I didn't want to put it all up here, kind sir, so I figured first position covers a couple of frets and it covers all the way across the fretboard, so I'll chec kthat first. And I was correct.

Thanks for the input though, I will attempt your approach.
#18
Quote by steven seagull
I just think learning boxes individually can get you stuck in them - it's not actually all that difficult or complicated to approach the scale as a whole. If you learn the notes and learn the chord progression derived from the scale first then that accounts for most of the notes straight away, and from there it's a simple exercise to locate your root notes in or around the chord shapes and drop in the extra intervals that aren't accounted for.

To me that's a far more constructive way of approaching things as it helps cement the relationship betwen chords and scales and also encourages you to look at the whole fretboard.


there's absolutely nothing wrong with learning box shapes period. Learning them individually does not get you stuck in them. These shapes are inherent in the layout of the guitar and should be learned and used to your advantage. How do you feel about learning chord shapes? Do you discourage that as well?
#19
Quote by Stash Jam
there's absolutely nothing wrong with learning box shapes period. Learning them individually does not get you stuck in them. These shapes are inherent in the layout of the guitar and should be learned and used to your advantage. How do you feel about learning chord shapes? Do you discourage that as well?

Box shapes are handy for using the scale, but there are more effective ways of learning a scale over the whole fretboard. If you try to learn from boxes there's a danger of limiting the possibilities you can see. Boxes have no inherent value on their own, they can represent any number of scales and chances are if you focus on them you'll end up learning the exact same thing several times over.

In much the same way, chord shapes are of limited value until you start to investigate the theory behind them.
Actually called Mark!

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#20
Quote by steven seagull
Box shapes are handy for using the scale, but there are more effective ways of learning a scale over the whole fretboard. If you try to learn from boxes there's a danger of limiting the possibilities you can see. Boxes have no inherent value on their own, they can represent any number of scales and chances are if you focus on them you'll end up learning the exact same thing several times over.

In much the same way, chord shapes are of limited value until you start to investigate the theory behind them.


So you think breaking down the fretboard into practical positions that are used is not an effective way of learning? Learning the patterns individually and seeing how they connect across the entire fretboard is more practical and helpful for both learning and applying them imo. I obviously agree with the ultimate goal of being able to solo freely over the fretboard, which can easily be accomplished by learning & connecting the positions. edit: I also encourage learning the theory behind the shapes as well

I'm not really one to argue it's just annoying seeing negative connotations placed on patterns, the player limits themselves if they stay in one position it's not the patterns fault!
Last edited by Stash Jam at Aug 5, 2008,
#21
Quote by steven seagull
Box shapes are handy for using the scale, but there are more effective ways of learning a scale over the whole fretboard. If you try to learn from boxes there's a danger of limiting the possibilities you can see. Boxes have no inherent value on their own, they can represent any number of scales and chances are if you focus on them you'll end up learning the exact same thing several times over.

In much the same way, chord shapes are of limited value until you start to investigate the theory behind them.


Since every single scale has the exact same intervals with just a differnt root ( Assuming it's in like the major, minor, harmonic, or melodic pattern ) then wouldn't just be like...

I pick a root note in a certain key, and the practice the scale up and cross and the all the way across and the nall the way up, and then repeat a little bit until I understand it, then go to the next octave/root and work from that? I have the notes of all of these scales jotted down,
and good point about the limitation of chord shaps, I use them, but I'd like to understand chord construction s little better.
#22
Quote by Gizmo Factory
Since every single scale has the exact same intervals with just a differnt root ( Assuming it's in like the major, minor, harmonic, or melodic pattern ) then wouldn't just be like...

I pick a root note in a certain key, and the practice the scale up and cross and the all the way across and the nall the way up, and then repeat a little bit until I understand it, then go to the next octave/root and work from that? I have the notes of all of these scales jotted down,
and good point about the limitation of chord shaps, I use them, but I'd like to understand chord construction s little better.

You can do it that way, but I just think learning the individual scale positions is a bit clunky. I actually tried doing that and got bored, also because I spent so long on each "box" it was hard to see them as anything other than individual patterns and difficult to connect them together, you still find yourself wondering when to move to another box and that's not the way it should be.

I ended up taking a step back from it all and having a think to see if there was a more logical way of learning the whole fretboard for a scale. The two things that bothered me were getting some horizontal movement going on and not relying so much on the root notes on the low E. I started with E minor simply because it's used often and I'm used to the sound of it and made a point of learning the scale straight along the G string...I know the pattern of intervals so thats' fairly striaghtforward, I then started messing with thirds between the G and D strings, mainly because I wanted something that'd allow me to shift up and down the neck interestingly. Those thirds are each the middle 2 notes of the chords derived from the scale, at which point I realised it would have been far easier to simply learn the chord progression first and then fill in a few gaps.

If, rather than drawing out the scales on your fretboard diagram, you draw out the notes of the chords of the progression you'll find that they'll account for most of the notes in the scale anyway. Doing it that way also has the added benefit of getting you used to the sound of the chords associated with the scale you're learning.
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#23
Quote by Gizmo Factory
but I'd like to understand chord construction s little better.


Looking at your notes, it seems you already understand that that is based from the major scale.

Chords are constructed by harmonizing the major scale in 3rds.

C D E F G A B

A triad is a "3 note chord" hence the term "tri"

Which notes does a C major triad have? Harmonize the C major scale in 3rds....