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#1
what amp which is in production would sound similar to a jcm 800/900 (i.e the classic marshall crunch)

i think i heard laney did one but i could be wrong

thanks,
#2
traynor ycv50 blue
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#4
A Marshall JCM800 can pull it off apparently...
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#5
Where in the world are you?
What's your budget?

Oh and the JCM900 is NOT the classic Marshall tone. Very far from it. I owned a JCM900 seeking the classic Marshall tone and it doesn't have it. Unless it's a Mk. 3 but finding one of those, is not easy...
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#6
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#7
i'm in england and my budget is about £500 and its mainly for bedroom stuff but i hope to gig it sumtime
#8
Alright get this:
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/vc30-112/380
+
http://www.loudspeaker.co.uk/

Get a Celestion G12H30

Spot on classic Marshall tone!
Listen to this soundclip (not the best quality but)
http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/MrCarrot/
VC30 Marshally+G12H
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#9
^ yeah, a vc30 would be cool with speaker swap. you're not million miles off an orange rocker 30 either, which might also be worth considering.
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#11
Used Orange Rocker, or surprise surprise, a used JCM800?
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#12
Quote by gilmourish
what amp which is in production would sound similar to a jcm 800/900 (i.e the classic marshall crunch)

i think i heard laney did one but i could be wrong

thanks,


Yeah, my Laney AOR50 sounds just like a JCM800 with more gain.... so more like a JCM900 I guess.

But they only made those in the 80's... but if you can find a good used one, they're really cheap, under $300USD usually.
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#13
Quote by thankyougermany
Yeah, my Laney AOR50 sounds just like a JCM800 with more gain.... so more like a JCM900 I guess.


Actually JCM900s being JCM800s with more gain is a bandwagon we have to kill!

JCM900s sound NOTHING like JCM800s. JCM800s are virtually old Plexis but with more preamp gain, but based of them and have a very similar tone. The JCM900 on the other hand was COMPELTELY different. It was a whole new design, made to sound very modern. It really doesn't sound like a JCM800 at all!

This is of course the Dual Reverb, which is 90% of all the JCM900s you see. There are the MK 3's which are basically just a JCM800 (one channel, what people mean when they say JCM800) with more preamp gain avaiable and a little upgraded. These are very good amps though!
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#14
Get the real thing, not some clone. On the other hand, I would not recommend a JCM800 combo or head for bedroom levels.
#15
I second the Rocker 30 but damn is it expensive...

I think the more sensible suggestion would be Gabe's VC30 one.
...
#16
Quote by laurens666
Get the real thing, not some clone. On the other hand, I would not recommend a JCM800 combo or head for bedroom levels.


Which Marshall would you recommend then?

The JCM900, 2000 have the same master volume that the JCM800s do. You will not push the power stage on either without cranking the volume.

As for the clone thing, most boutique cloners build better amps than Marshall's reissues. At least for plexis and JTM45s. No one clones JCM800s or 900s because originals can still be bought for reasonable prices (besides, no one would want to clone a JCM900 anyway).

Marshall reissues suck, fact. For the same price as one of their overpriced reissues, a quality clone can get you a much more historically accurate circuit, handwired ptp, using the best available components. As far as I'm concerned a Germino or Metropoulos is much closer to the real thing than the Marshall reissue.

edit: hell, even a >$1000 Ceriatone is far beyond Marshall's reissues and awesome amps at that.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 5, 2008,
#17
^Ceriatone clone the JCM800 now i do believe
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#18
Yeah, they clone the 2203 (arguable as to whether its a JCM800 or not) and like the rest of their products, probably sounds a hell of a lot better than Marshall's overpriced reissues.
#19
2204 as well

I must admit though, that means nothing to me I don't know a whole lot about Marshalls
I was more interested in Ceriatones Fender and Matchless clones
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#20
Quote by laurens666
Get the real thing, not some clone. On the other hand, I would not recommend a JCM800 combo or head for bedroom levels.


Actually a Metropolous is CLOSER to the real thing than a Marshall. The Marshall reissues are WAY too far from the originals!

Oh and Orange Rocker for that tone? Well having owned two different JCM900s, a JCM800 and a Plexi and having sold them all and now having a Rocker 30 which does the Marshall tone better than my old ones did? Yes it's possible!
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#21
Ok, get a used one.

A request: people claiming here that reissues don't have the classic Marshall tone, please post a sound sample with comparisons for the real thing/reissue/clone. I can only compare my previous JCM800 combo with my 2203KK (would you call that a reiusse?). And in between I had a DSL.

I don't give a rat's @ss about the circuity and components discussion, to me it is all about tone. In the end it is about what you like, not what someone claims to be classic or whatever.
#22
Quote by laurens666
Ok, get a used one.

A request: people claiming here that reissues don't have the classic Marshall tone, please post a sound sample with comparisons for the real thing/reissue/clone. I can only compare my previous JCM800 combo with my 2203KK (would you call that a reiusse?). And in between I had a DSL.

I don't give a rat's @ss about the circuity and components discussion, to me it is all about tone.
In the end it is about what you like, not what someone claims to be classic or whatever.

You've failed right there.

Did you just say that circuitry and components didn't matter?

Wow, that is a major fail, older amps have incredibly simple and sensitive circuits. Small changes can have huge impact on tone and feel. The fact that the reissues do not use proper components and are historically inaccurate all change the way they sound compared to the originals.
#23
Quote by Gabel
Actually JCM900s being JCM800s with more gain is a bandwagon we have to kill!

JCM900s sound NOTHING like JCM800s. JCM800s are virtually old Plexis but with more preamp gain, but based of them and have a very similar tone. The JCM900 on the other hand was COMPELTELY different. It was a whole new design, made to sound very modern. It really doesn't sound like a JCM800 at all!

This is of course the Dual Reverb, which is 90% of all the JCM900s you see. There are the MK 3's which are basically just a JCM800 (one channel, what people mean when they say JCM800) with more preamp gain avaiable and a little upgraded. These are very good amps though!


Fair enough, I stand corrected.

So, the AOR50 sounds like a JCM800 with more gain, not a JCM900.
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#24
Quote by laurens666
Ok, get a used one.

A request: people claiming here that reissues don't have the classic Marshall tone, please post a sound sample with comparisons for the real thing/reissue/clone. I can only compare my previous JCM800 combo with my 2203KK (would you call that a reiusse?). And in between I had a DSL.

I don't give a rat's @ss about the circuity and components discussion, to me it is all about tone. In the end it is about what you like, not what someone claims to be classic or whatever.


THIS IS WHAT MAKES THE TONE!

Really, chaning componets will result in different tone. A different resistor can make a difference. Think like this, if one little resistor will change the tone, what happens if you change 10 of them? The output transformer is generally a BIG part in the tone. What if it's changed a lot? Then the tone will change!
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#25
Quote by al112987
You've failed right there.

Did you just say that circuitry and components didn't matter?

Wow, that is a major fail, older amps have incredibly simple and sensitive circuits. Small changes can have huge impact on tone and feel. The fact that the reissues do not use proper components and are historically inaccurate all change the way they sound compared to the originals.


No, I didn't say that. I said that I'm not interested in the parts discussion, but only in the end result. If an engineer figures it out to get the same result in a different way, then who cares? Obviously components influence the tone, but like I said it doesn't matter how you get there if the tone and quality is right. Read it the way you want it. But next time think 5 sec before you scream fail. Also show me an example of the difference in sound, that is what I asked.
#26
Quote by laurens666
No, I didn't say that. I said that I'm not interested in the parts discussion, but only in the end result. If an engineer figures it out to get the same result in a different way, then who cares? Obviously components influence the tone, but like I said it doesn't matter how you get there if the tone and quality is right. Read it the way you want it. But next time think 5 sec before you scream fail. Also show me an example of the difference in sound, that is what I asked.


No, you don't understand, the components make the sound the way it is, and the fact that Marshall does not use the correct components and their transformers are not up to spec are the exact reason why their reissues do not sound "correct", and why people go boutique for plexi replicas rather than buying the Marshall replicas. Think of it this way, you cannot just say "if engineers can find a way to replicate a tone without the right components then why does it matter?" when those components are what the tone comes from. You cannot recreate the dynamics, harmonic complexity and feel of an all tube amplifier with transistors. You just can't, different components react differently. And likewise, the value of the plexi is about more than just the tone, its about how they react to a player, subtleties that are very dependent on the parts you use.

These are really simple circuits, and little changes make a difference. Engineers HAVE found ways to replicate certain components to get a very accurate sound, its just that Marshall doesn't use the best available components. Companies like Mercury Magnetics, Marstran, Heyboer all make custom transformers that are accurate spec-wise to vintage plexis, brands like Sozo make signal capacitors that perform just as well as the NOS Phillips mustard caps that have shown up on Ebay for $200 a pair. Its just that Marshall doesn't use these parts, they cut costs on components and workmanship, thus they don't make good replicas of the heralded vintage amps.

If you want a discussion about the end result, its this, the Marshall reissues value is in its ability to recreate the original. They are overpriced considering 1) they are not as well built 2) do not sound or react as close to the originals as other options. It's very simple.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 8, 2008,
#27
Splawn Quickrod or Splawn Nitro

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#28
Quote by al112987
No, you don't understand, the components make the sound the way it is, and the fact that Marshall does not use the correct components and their transformers are not up to spec are the exact reason why their reissues do not sound "correct", and why people go boutique for plexi replicas rather than buying the Marshall replicas. Think of it this way, you cannot just say "if engineers can find a way to replicate a tone without the right components then why does it matter?" when those components are what the tone comes from. You cannot recreate the dynamics, harmonic complexity and feel of an all tube amplifier with transistors. You just can't, different components react differently. And likewise, the value of the plexi is about more than just the tone, its about how they react to a player, subtleties that are very dependent on the parts you use.

These are really simple circuits, and little changes make a difference. Engineers HAVE found ways to replicate certain components to get a very accurate sound, its just that Marshall doesn't use the best available components. Companies like Mercury Magnetics, Marstran, Heyboer all make custom transformers that are accurate spec-wise to vintage plexis, brands like Sozo make signal capacitors that perform just as well as the NOS Phillips mustard caps that have shown up on Ebay for $200 a pair. Its just that Marshall doesn't use these parts, they cut costs on components and workmanship, thus they don't make good replicas of the heralded vintage amps.

If you want a discussion about the end result, its this, the Marshall reissues value is in its ability to recreate the original. They are overpriced considering 1) they are not as well built 2) do not sound or react as close to the originals as other options. It's very simple.


Thank you! You nailed it there! Mallory caps are really good. There are also many good Mullard repro tubes, like JJs and so on. Marshall however uses cheap chinese ones. Basically Marshall charge more for the logo than the amp. The amp uses very cheap components that are nothing like the orginal!
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#29
Quote by Gabel
Thank you! You nailed it there! Mallory caps are really good. There are also many good Mullard repro tubes, like JJs and so on. Marshall however uses cheap chinese ones. Basically Marshall charge more for the logo than the amp. The amp uses very cheap components that are nothing like the orginal!


Seriously? It boggles my mind, the original Marshall plexis were handwired, point to point amps, if you wanted a replica, why get one that uses cheaper components, PCB, and is out of spec, when they could have one handwired, point to point, using the best components available, for the same amount or slightly more. I've never once understood that.

That applies to the Marshall handwired series too. There was a great article a while back about someone buying a Marshall handwired SLP and spending an additional few hundred bucks on new transformers and signal caps to get it to actually sound like a real plexi.
#30
Quote by Gabel
Actually a Metropolous is CLOSER to the real thing than a Marshall. The Marshall reissues are WAY too far from the originals!


I've come to find that pretty much any reissue of any classic piece of gear doesn't nail that classic tone.


And laurens666: DON'T argue with Gabel or al112987... I learned my lesson a few days ago - these guys really know what they are talking about!
#31
I feel like jumping in here. Marshall gurus, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

From my experience, even a used JCM800 combo won't do the trick if you want "real" Marshall tone. Since alot of what makes Marshall sound Marshally is their poweramp distortion you'd be better off buying the head and then getting a cab that you like and hooking them up with an attenuator. The famous players who used Marshalls "back in the day" didn't use the combos, and from my experience even if it's the exact same amp in a combo form it will not sound the same as a stack. Plus with the stack you can change speaker types any time you want. I know people always say get a combo because it's more portable and you dont NEED a stack. But to be brutally honest, nothing will sound like a full blown Marshall stack like a good Marshall clone (Ceriatone, Metro, Germino, blah blah balh) in a stack form. Please, don't settle for the Marshall reissues. You can get so much better for the money you'd be shelling out for one of those.
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#32
Quote by i_am_metalhead
I've come to find that pretty much any reissue of any classic piece of gear doesn't nail that classic tone.


And laurens666: DON'T argue with Gabel or al112987... I learned my lesson a few days ago - these guys really know what they are talking about!



You caught me on a bad day when I had ****ed up the bias circuit in my amp causing my new KT66s to glow like two hot coals. But cheers!


To Voodoocow:

You're absolutely right, there is a certain presence and "oompf" that only a pushed 4x12 cabinet can provide. But they're super unpractical. If you have a plexi, the volume is simply just too much, even playing my 30 watt plexi at 10 through a 1x12 cabinet for extended periods will leave my ears ringing and my neighbors furious (I am still upgrading to a 4x12 though to try to tighten up the massive bass response that is associated with my amp). A superlead or 1987 would blow the roof off my house. Literally.

Oh, but they sure sound damn good.
#33
Quote by al112987

You caught me on a bad day when I had ****ed up the bias circuit in my amp causing my new KT66s to glow like two hot coals. But cheers!


To Voodoocow:

You're absolutely right, there is a certain presence and "oompf" that only a pushed 4x12 cabinet can provide. But they're super unpractical. If you have a plexi, the volume is simply just too much, even playing my 30 watt plexi at 10 through a 1x12 cabinet for extended periods will leave my ears ringing and my neighbors furious (I am still upgrading to a 4x12 though to try to tighten up the massive bass response that is associated with my amp). A superlead or 1987 would blow the roof off my house. Literally.

Oh, but they sure sound damn good.


Well I tend to be a bit short-tempered so you will see me arguing with people quite often on here... but then like twenty minutes later, after I've cooled down, you will see me admit my error and go on about my business

And you're right, nothing compares to a pushed 4x12. I actually use two 4x12s (I don't own a Marshall though - Personally I'm not to fond of them... I play through an Ashdown, which is very classic sounding British voiced amp) and a lot of people think I'm crazy... but I use to play through combos and it just didn't do the trick for me. I've got to have that extra "oompf" that you referred to.
#34
Looks like this turned into and Marshall Arguement.

Im suprised noone said the peavey Windsor. Thats a really affordable amp that delivers classic overdrive. Thats a good choice to get a marshall like sound on a budget.
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Mesa 4x12
#35
Quote by Ubershall404
Looks like this turned into and Marshall Arguement.

Im suprised noone said the peavey Windsor. Thats a really affordable amp that delivers classic overdrive. Thats a good choice to get a marshall like sound on a budget.


Sorry, but I'll have to heartily disagree with you there. IMO the Peavey Windsor has one sound, and it isn't Marshall Crunch. It's British Hi Gain, and it doesn't do it overly well. Plus no cleans
...
#36
Get a VC30 with a G12H like Gabe said.

Or a Rocker 30.

Or even better, a Marshall clone, either a Metropoulos or a Ceriatone.

Don't listen to lauren666, she clearly has no idea what makes an amp's tone.
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#37
Quote by i_am_metalhead
I've come to find that pretty much any reissue of any classic piece of gear doesn't nail that classic tone.


And laurens666: DON'T argue with Gabel or al112987... I learned my lesson a few days ago - these guys really know what they are talking about!


Well any reissues from most big companies aren't. Marshall reissues are an easy find though:
Mojave
Metropolous
Ceriatone
Splawn
Are a few Marshall based amps that are better than Marshall!

Oh it's nice to see you did learn something
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



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#39
*sigh* you guys read it the way you want it, fine by me. This is exactly what I don´t care about, a snobby elitist parts discussion.
#40
Quote by Gabel
Well any reissues from most big companies aren't. Marshall reissues are an easy find though:
Mojave
Metropolous
Ceriatone
Splawn
Are a few Marshall based amps that are better than Marshall!

Oh it's nice to see you did learn something


Well I believe the whole Marshall reissue thing ties in to something I posted in another thread about things today aren't made the way they use to be. Today's products are made from the cheapest materials using the cheapest labor to save the company some money whereas things built "back in the day" used better materials and were built to last.


And we are all here to help each other out - no use in making enemies, is there? And hey, I may be able to learn a thing or two from you that will help me out somewhere down the road
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