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#1
I just bought a crate v50, couldn't test it out or anything, should be here with in the next couple of days. I bought the 50 watt because it was the cheapest out of the 18, 33 and the 5 . Anywho my question is this, tube amps break up at loud volumes, is there anyway to have overdrive on low volumes on a tube amp? I only usually play in my room or with my friends but not in a band or anything,.So is there a way or am I gonna have to play in my backyard lol, thanks.
#2
Err, get an overdrive pedal?
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#3
cant u just turn up the gain rather, an tube amps sound beutiful at high volumes
#5
for a combo good question if theres any way you can hook up an attenuator do that... but hell the neighboors can deal with it just play it loud
#6
You need an attenuater. You put it between the amp and the speaker. It will basically allow you to crank your amp for good breakup, but still get bedroom volume.
If you start a reply with: I have never played one but I have heard good things about it! Your opinion is invalid.
#7
Quote by forsaknazrael
Yes, you need to turn a tube amp up to get power tube saturation/distortion.

This doesn't mean you can't get preamp distortion.

what he said.

you can get preamp overdrive by using the gain knob. you get poweramp distortion by pushing the overall volume higher. they're a bit different, but no, you're not stuck with a completely clean amp at low volumes.
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#8
Attenuators suck tone! So even with one you still won't be able to hear your amps full capabilities!

However, he's got a combo so an attenuator is out of the picture.
#9
^Tone suckage is only noticeable if you use them the wrong way. And attenuators can still be used with combos, nub.

Quote by boxcarmonument
You need an attenuater. You put it between the amp and the speaker. It will basically allow you to crank your amp for good breakup, but still get bedroom volume.

People need to stop recommending attenuators.
#10
Guess I'll be playing in the yard lol, I got a digitech bad monkey to boost it, will it still sound good with the pre amp overdrive?
#12
Quote by forsaknazrael
^Tone suckage is only noticeable if you use them the wrong way. And attenuators can still be used with combos, nub.


People need to stop recommending attenuators.


I've never used an attenuator because I like my amp loud... so I'm not too familiar with them but I always thought you had to have an output from the amp going into it and then an output from the attenuator back to the amp - how could you use one with a combo?

And I've been around here a bit longer than you - watch who you are calling a noob
#13
I was kidding about teh nub part, sir.

A lot of combos have speaker jacks/plugs for their internal speaker. Mine does, I've used an attenuator.
Anyway, an attenuator should never be used to bring an amp down to bedroom levels of volume. In my experience, you got optimal use out of one by playing really loud, and using the attenuator to bring it down to levels where you won't drown out your band, and then it up a bit more for some more power tube saturation.
#14
Quote by forsaknazrael
I was kidding about teh nub part, sir.


I was just messing with you... its all good man.

TS - You really have two options. Preamp distortion or buy a nice OD pedal to give you that thick, saturated overdrive tone at low amp volumes.
#15
Quote by forsaknazrael
I was kidding about teh nub part, sir.

A lot of combos have speaker jacks/plugs for their internal speaker. Mine does, I've used an attenuator.
Anyway, an attenuator should never be used to bring an amp down to bedroom levels of volume. In my experience, you got optimal use out of one by playing really loud, and using the attenuator to bring it down to levels where you won't drown out your band, and then it up a bit more for some more power tube saturation.


Well then what would you suggest about bringing a very loud amp (or one like the Mesa Rec, that only shines when pushed) down to bedroom level?

The only other option I know of would be to take out some of the tubes.
#16
Quote by i_am_metalhead
Attenuators suck tone! So even with one you still won't be able to hear your amps full capabilities!

However, he's got a combo so an attenuator is out of the picture.


I've got a combo that still allows use of an attenuator. It depends on the output jack. Same way you can run some combos with cabs without opening them up.
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Last edited by scott58 at Aug 6, 2008,
#17
Quote by forsaknazrael
Yes, you need to turn a tube amp up to get power tube saturation/distortion.

This doesn't mean you can't get preamp distortion.


Yup.... and if you want modern rock tone and metal tone it's all about preamp distortion anyway.
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#18
50W valve is a heck of alot of power. To get polite volume levels with good saturation you are certainly going to need attenuation.

The 18W would have been the best option as you could have got a great sound at lower volume levels idea for practice and home, and you'd have some good headroom in a band situation for small - medium sized gigs.

I know you said it was cheaper to go the 50W route but now you're going to have to fork out on an attenuator anyway (which are expensive) when you could have just gone for a lower wattage without any tone suckage from an attenuator.

Preamp distortion is generally not musical sounding. An overdrive pedal infront will tighten it up abit but wont give you much saturation
Last edited by XtAsY2007 at Aug 6, 2008,
#19
Just have it at a low volume and crank the gain. It's not rocket science, I don't see why everyone is getting so worked up about attenuators etc for.
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#20
Quote by Kurapica
Just have it at a low volume and crank the gain. It's not rocket science, I don't see why everyone is getting so worked up about attenuators etc for.


Doing this just gives a fizzy sound without warmth usually. Kinda defeats the whole idea of owning a tube amp.
#21
Quote by Delanoir
Well then what would you suggest about bringing a very loud amp (or one like the Mesa Rec, that only shines when pushed) down to bedroom level?

The only other option I know of would be to take out some of the tubes.

You can't always pull tubes, and even then, this would only halve wattage - which doesn't decrease volume much. a 100W amp going down to 50W is still loud as ****.

My suggestion? Have an amp specifically for practice. Or play at a time of day where you can turn you amp to around shouting levels of volume. That's it.
#22
i dont get all this "dont get an attenuator most of the gain comes from the preamp" crap. That's irrelevant, especially when you're looking for SATURATION of the preamps distortion from the power section, not all out GAIN....and that's a pretty universal concept for tube amps.
#23
Quote by UnsignedRecords
what he said.

you can get preamp overdrive by using the gain knob. you get poweramp distortion by pushing the overall volume higher. they're a bit different, but no, you're not stuck with a completely clean amp at low volumes.


+1
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#25
Quote by forsaknazrael
when did anyone say this?

First page, unless i misconstrued it.
also several other times on this forum
#26
18w could play with a drummer and be heard in a gig situation?
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#27
^Yes. An 18W tube amp is quite loud. Just doesn't have a lot of clean headroom.

^^Well, I certainly didn't say it.
My point being, too many people use or recommend using attenuators to bring your amp down to bedroom levels of volume. It's going to sound like crap like that. Might as well just turn your master volume down.
#28
im thinking of getting one just to turn it down to HOME volumes, not necessarily bedroom lol. i just want saturation of the distortion (on my 6505) without pissing off the neighbors, or killing my ears. i guess it all depends what everyones idea of bedroom volume is
#30
^ yeah, me too.
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#31
yup...i mean when you're buying a 120W hi gain tube amp...you sorta gotta understand that you cant get it to sound like its screaming like its cranked at a stadium at 1AM while everyone is sleeping :P Shout volume is more than fine...and if i am ever in the mood for a very late night jam...that's what small practice combo amps are for
#32
I don't understand the attenuator haters. I have a Weber Mass Attenuator and the way Ted Weber builds his is to put a real speaker voice-coil in the units to simulate an actual speaker load.

IOW, the attenuation is not done with electronics so you do not get the "tone suck" most of you speak of. I even like running the Weber full time, even when the amp is cranked because it acts as a noisegate of sorts. Check them out (they are inexpensive as well)...

http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm

To each his own I guess

Chris
#33
Quote by XtAsY2007
50W valve is a heck of alot of power.
The 18W would have been the best option as you could have got a great sound at lower volume levels idea for practice and home, and you'd have some good headroom in a band situation for small - medium sized gigs.

This. And you got the V50 for less that $230? That is what Samash is selling the V18 for these days. You should be ok with a OD pedal.
Congrats, nice amp.
#36
Quote by forsaknazrael
You can't always pull tubes, and even then, this would only halve wattage - which doesn't decrease volume much. a 100W amp going down to 50W is still loud as ****.

My suggestion? Have an amp specifically for practice. Or play at a time of day where you can turn you amp to around shouting levels of volume. That's it.


He's right. I pulled 2 tubes on both my 100W amps, & they're still loud as f#@k. There's a couple other general options here, though. How about buying an amp that sounds good at low volume as well? Whoa. They are out there. I made the same mistake a lot of guys make, & bought an amp that only sounds really good cranked, & attenuators suck the life out of it (& I don't care what anyone says here-sorry, John-but I have yet to see any attenuator that doesn't round off your tone SOMEWHAT. If it's between the amp & speaker, it's inherent in the design).
The solution, that no one here ever listens to, is RE-AMPING. See? There's ANOTHER choice. Full power stage saturation & tube tone at ANY VOLUME, with no tone loss. I get the Van Halen first album sound at bedroom volume WITH FULL DEEP DYNAMICS & RESPONSE. I know lots of people claim to get great tone, & when you hear it yourself, it sounds like ass. I've been chasing the cranked tone we're all after for longer than most of you have been alive, & trust me, re-amping is TEH SH!T.
Attenuators to me are only good as load boxes. Use the line out on the attenuator to run through FX into another power amp.
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#38
Quote by acdcrocks0323
^Does the second power amp have to be tube, or can it be one of those cheap powerblocks to get the cranked tone?

Cheap Power Block ftw!!!!
I use the PB for my VH tone, & it kills (but that's likely because the Mojave Scorpion is the tone that's being amplified ).
You can use high end power amps if you want to add tone/color/warmth at stage volume. I don't need a high end power amp, because the Mojave gets such great tone, it doesn't need it. There's a lot of adjustablity w/ the PB. Just crank the level knob, & use the gain knob as the master. You won't really add much gain as you turn it up, because it will be f#@king loud VERY quickly. But TONE! OMG.

Edit: I set the PB EQ controls to 12:00 position, & roll treble off slightly as needed as volume increased.
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