Page 1 of 3
#1
Dang, that's got SOUL

I hear about playing with SOUL and EMOTION every day here. The thing is, how exactly does one go about doing it? Surely there's more to it than not shredding and making a constipated face.

I understand writing soulful songs, because you write the way you feel.
I understand soulful singing, because vocals have so many nuances that convey emotion.

But soulful playing? I'm sure once your technique is pretty good, you can mimic the nuances without really playing from the heart. Some people have a more lyrical vibrato than others. Some people hit the strings harder, others softer.

If one guy played a solo soulfully (a "soulo", perhaps) and another guy played it coldly, but mimicing his nuances, would you be able to hear the difference?

So what is SOUL all about?
#4
well...
a soulo could be like novemeber rain...the first one..or lots of blues.
soulful playing needs you to feel the emotion that the writer has when they wrote the song and then make it sound the same....
so yeah
Quote by Alex The Red

If it doesn't have to do with tube amps or sex most of us don't really care..

Quote by Kutanmoogle

Looks like Lars Ulrich decided to become a hacker.

Quote by aaron6890
penises FTW

not in the gay way

<.<
>.>


......
#5
Soul is impossible to put a finger on. It can't really be truly mimiced, because to truly convey emotion, you have to be totally yourself- through whatever medium, be it singing, guitar, or keys, you show soul by playing it like you mean it. Just because something is fast, doesn't mean it doesn't have soul, and just because something is slow, doesn't mean it does.
For me, for something to sound soulful, it has to have a definite purpose which the musician truly believes in- I feel utterly miserable/I'm absolutely ecstatic/I love this person so much/I'm going to ****ing hurt you/ I just REALLY want to dance, and it's played as if that feeling is all that is occupying their mind at that moment in time, controlling the music more than their conscious mind ever could. It is in no way embarrassed, and in no way pretentious, at once of singularly purpose and uncontrollable emotion.
The most important thing is that it must make me feel like the performer is. Straight imitation can never give that.
#6
Quote by sashki
Was that your first time using the new smiley? Cos it's made a very useful contribution to my thread. I thank ye.

You're welcome.

You can't teach the believed "soul".
It's what you feel when you play music.
I don't know how to describe it.
I only get "soul" when I play dragonforce songs at double speed and your joints lock up, you cringe quickly, but a liberating cringe... ugh, It's undescribable. Which is why I'm always searching for something faster.
Quote by Cobain_is_king

Seth: 1
A7X: 0
#8
melody> heavy metal showboating.... well that's what slash said anyway...
Makin love, makin love for two, makin love for two minutes... When its with me you only need two minutes... cuz I’m intense

Proud owner of the Anti Gnome Extermination Confederation.

Give me a yell if you wanna join!!!
#10
Quote by Shredslayer
melody> heavy metal showboating.... well that's what slash said anyway...

Slash isn't the best guitarist in the world, and he certainly doesn't know best.

Just so you know.
Quote by Cobain_is_king

Seth: 1
A7X: 0
#11
Adding lots of vibrato and delay will make people think you have soul.

When actual fact what you have is a basic technique and an expensive pedal.
#13
Well people who say wether or not people play with 'emotion' are quite frankly idiots. Who are we to say if people play with emotion or not? It could be any emotion as well - anger, lust? I think the emotional part is debateable by ourselves on however the music itself makes us feel. People who say 'sh3dd3rz d0n't play with teh liek n0 em0ti0n' are morons. Because they have no idea on wether or not they're feeling emotions while playing.
#14
Playing with emotion isn't about what you look like when playing, you gotta connect to whatever your playing, not just aimless improvising. Imagine your singing a song you really like, the emotion it evokes. Playing guitar is the same only your vocal chords are made of nylon or steel.
#15
Quote by freedoms_stain
Adding lots of vibrato and delay will make people think you have soul.

When actual fact what you have is a basic technique and an expensive pedal.

This works too.

Marry me.
Quote by Cobain_is_king

Seth: 1
A7X: 0
#16
For me soul is more than just playing with feeling

You have to be able to transmit the feeling to the listener
And make a nice sound

For instance i could just hit my guitar very hard, you might understand i was pissed off but you wouldn't listen very long cos it would would suck.

When playing you can display your emotions but you need to make people want to listen. Thus technique is indispensable to be able to express yourself.

As for the difference between two guitarists playing a melody with soul and just with a good technique I'm honestly would find it hard telling the difference, but then is being sad more admirable than just wanting to play good music?

I like listening to blues for the emotion but i also find rapid sweep arpeggios sound nice, ask me which one i prefer and i honestly couldn't tell you.

There are probably some experts who'll be able to tell you how to seperate those who play with soul and those who just play with good technique (when playing the same lick) but the two dont necessarily cancel each other out.
#17
2 things:

1. Stop making this thread. It stopped being original about...hmm, 4 years ago. Yes, we all know sometimes people get silly with the word 'soul', oh well.

2. They've either got or they don't and if you don't feel it they don't got it, no other way to identify it
On vacation from modding = don't pm me with your pish
#18
soul/emotion is a bunch of crap made up to justify why people do/don't like something.

when they say that 'x has/doesn't have emotion' what they really mean to say is 'this piece invokes/does not invoke an emotional response in me'. and do you know who that says more about? the listener rather than the player.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#19
Quote by hazzmatazz
People who say 'sh3dd3rz d0n't play with teh liek n0 em0ti0n' are morons.

Quite often this is true though.. to me, this says misery (ignore the pictures, just listen to the audio), whereas this says "I'm a dick". this says awesome. I don't think shred is any worse than other genres for being soulless, but it is the best at saying "LOOK GUYS I'M SOOO COOL", and that's the opposite of soul.
#20
Quote by Seth Shadows
Slash isn't the best guitarist in the world, and he certainly doesn't know best.

Just so you know.

Because you are, and you know best, cos you've totally written and recorded more soulos than he has.
#21
Quote by Seth Shadows
Slash isn't the best guitarist in the world, and he certainly doesn't know best.

Just so you know.


Slash might not know best... but he most definately knows a lot more about playing guitar than you do.
Makin love, makin love for two, makin love for two minutes... When its with me you only need two minutes... cuz I’m intense

Proud owner of the Anti Gnome Extermination Confederation.

Give me a yell if you wanna join!!!
#22
Quote by Lemoninfluence
soul/emotion is a bunch of crap made up to justify why people do/don't like something.

when they say that 'x has/doesn't have emotion' what they really mean to say is 'this piece invokes/does not invoke an emotional response in me'. and do you know who that says more about? the listener rather than the player.


Exactly.

I blame Dave Gilmour fanboys for everything involving the "he doesn't play with feeling or emotion or soul" thing.

And Seth wasn't trying to say he was a better guitarist than Slash. What Slash said was, quite simply, gimpish.
#23
Quote by Deliriumbassist

And Seth wasn't trying to say he was a better guitarist than Slash. What Slash said was, quite simply, gimpish.

True, but Slash did play a lot of, in my opinion, good solos.
#24
Quote by Lemoninfluence
soul/emotion is a bunch of crap made up to justify why people do/don't like something.

when they say that 'x has/doesn't have emotion' what they really mean to say is 'this piece invokes/does not invoke an emotional response in me'. and do you know who that says more about? the listener rather than the player.



It says as much about the person as the player. The piece has to have the right qualities to set off a person.
On vacation from modding = don't pm me with your pish
#26
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Your point? It doesn't make his comment about "metal showboating" any truer.


What i got out of slashs statement about metal showboating was that there is more to playing guitar than competing with others to see how fast you can whip through a couple of scales.
Makin love, makin love for two, makin love for two minutes... When its with me you only need two minutes... cuz I’m intense

Proud owner of the Anti Gnome Extermination Confederation.

Give me a yell if you wanna join!!!
#27
Quote by meh!
It says as much about the person as the player. The piece has to have the right qualities to set off a person.

considering a smell can set off an emotional response, it says infinitely more about the listener than the player.

or does a smell have soul aswell?

Quote by Shredslayer
What i got out of slashs statement about metal showboating was that there is more to playing guitar than competing with others to see how fast you can whip through a couple of scales.

so metal showboating is playing as fast as possible through scales?

that just reeks of ignorance.

I mean, there are arpeggios to blitz through too.

I don't think many professional players have actively tried to play faster than x.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
Last edited by Lemoninfluence at Aug 9, 2008,
#28
Quote by Shredslayer
What i got out of slashs statement about metal showboating was that there is more to playing guitar than competing with others to see how fast you can whip through a couple of scales.


And I get from that a completely ignorant sweeping statement. There's also plenty of "showboating" in all other forms of music, including 1980's glam/hair rock/metal. So Slash can't really talk.
Last edited by Deliriumbassist at Aug 9, 2008,
#29
First off you can't "teach" soul. That's like trying to teach someone how to laugh or how to cry. Think - do you need to try hard to laugh or cry over something? No, you just do it without trying because it's a natural response in the body.

You can't learn it, it's something natural, it's something human, it's something we all have - you just need to invoke whatever feeling you want to convey through your guitar in yourself and put that thought into motion. If you try to "learn" or "imitate" soulful playing, you will fail hard. Because if you try to imitate soulful playing without actually just naturally doing it, the more it feels forced and contrived. It's just like "trying" to laugh or cry.
Gear:
.Fender Classic Series '70s Stratocaster
.Peavey Classic 30
.Xotic BB Preamp
.MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay
.Vox V847A Wah
.Boss RC-2 Loop Station
.Washburn WI-24 (first guitar )
#30
Quote by Lemoninfluence
considering a smell can set off an emotional response, it says infinitely more about the listener than the player.

or does a smell have soul aswell?


so metal showboating is playing as fast as possible through scales?

that just reeks of ignorance.

I mean, there are arpeggios to blitz through too.

I don't think many professional players have actively tried to play faster than x.


A smell sets off an emotional response because it has certain qualities that invoke a certain emotion in us. If you were to take these qualities (which obviously cannot be explained or put into words) and transfer them to another medium, such as one of the other 4 senses (hearing, for one), you are likely to also invoke that emotion. It's not the fact that music has an actual living soul, it's the fact that the player can naturally convey his thoughts and emotions through subtle nuances in his playing and invoke a response in the listener.
Gear:
.Fender Classic Series '70s Stratocaster
.Peavey Classic 30
.Xotic BB Preamp
.MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay
.Vox V847A Wah
.Boss RC-2 Loop Station
.Washburn WI-24 (first guitar )
#31
Quote by Shredslayer
melody> heavy metal showboating.... well that's what slash said anyway...

slash also said that axl rose deep inside is really a really nice guy and a good person, look where thats gotten him
The Mitch Clem formula
1)make jokes about rancid and NOFX (as if they dont already make fun of themselves)
2)make obvious punk puns, possibly related to food
3)make fun of Rancid and NOFX again
4)??????
5)PROFIT (and an army of internet fanboys)
#32
Quote by RyanDV
A smell sets off an emotional response because it has certain qualities that invoke a certain emotion in us. If you were to take these qualities (which obviously cannot be explained or put into words) and transfer them to another medium, such as one of the other 4 senses (hearing, for one), you are likely to also invoke that emotion. It's not the fact that music has an actual living soul, it's the fact that the player can naturally convey his thoughts and emotions through subtle nuances in his playing and invoke a response in the listener.

so soul is the ability to transfer an entire subjective thing through soundwaves?
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#33
Here's a crowd favourite, John Petrucci
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVmq2C5kLoM

When I listen to that, I don't know if it's got soul or not. I just know that I like it. He doesn't really look like a typical soulful player in this video. Instead, he looks like he's concentrated on what he's doing.

Does that qualify him as being soulless? Or is he only soulless in the eyes of a Frusciante fan?
#35
Quote by RyanDV
A smell sets off an emotional response because it has certain qualities that invoke a certain emotion in us. If you were to take these qualities (which obviously cannot be explained or put into words) and transfer them to another medium, such as one of the other 4 senses (hearing, for one), you are likely to also invoke that emotion. It's not the fact that music has an actual living soul, it's the fact that the player can naturally convey his thoughts and emotions through subtle nuances in his playing and invoke a response in the listener.
It's more like the sound triggers association with emotion from previous experience.

It's completely subjective. It's the reason half this site ejaculate over Dream Theater and I say "meh".
#36
Quote by Lemoninfluence
so soul is the ability to transfer an entire subjective thing through soundwaves?


You don't understand.

It's not that soul is directly invoking an emotion in a player. It's not like soul is the actual emotion itself. You are not directly transferring the player's emotion from the player to the listener, but rather, the player transfers his emotion into his playing. When he does so, the subtle nuances in his soulful playing are heard by the listener. When we receive this input from our senses (in this case hearing), we are able to hear these nuances and qualities in the guitarist's playing, which then inspire within us a certain emotion.

When you say:

when they say that 'x has/doesn't have emotion' what they really mean to say is 'this piece invokes/does not invoke an emotional response in me'. and do you know who that says more about? the listener rather than the player.


this is because the piece in particular does not contain these nuances or qualities which inspire a particular feeling within the listener. A guitarist needs to be able to CREATE these qualities so that the listener may subconsciously and automatically pick them up, thus causing him to experience some sort of emotional response. If a guitarist cannot play soulfully, these nuances are lost, and therefore no emotion is invoked in the listener.

I know that you mean that when one listens to music he forms his own subjective opinion on whether it contains feeling or invokes a feeling within him. However, how can you say that a piece does/does not have feeling when the material upon which you form and base your subjective opinion on does not exist? It's like trying to accuse someone of a crime when you have no evidence to base your accusation upon.

The guitarist needs to "create" this evidence so that the listener may form his own opinion on the music and thus experience some emotional response.

Jesus, that was a bitch to put into words.
Gear:
.Fender Classic Series '70s Stratocaster
.Peavey Classic 30
.Xotic BB Preamp
.MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay
.Vox V847A Wah
.Boss RC-2 Loop Station
.Washburn WI-24 (first guitar )
#37
Quote by RyanDV
I know that you mean that when one listens to music he forms his own subjective opinion on whether it contains feeling or invokes a feeling within him. However, how can you say that a piece does/does not have feeling when the material upon which you form and base your subjective opinion on does not exist? It's like trying to accuse someone of a crime when you have no evidence to base your accusation upon.

The guitarist needs to "create" this evidence so that the listener may form his own opinion on the music and thus experience some emotional response.

so the evidence is in the nuances?

and every player has nuances (that's a fact, no 2 players hands will move exactly the same). so surely every player creates evidence you just have to be able to understand it. in which case we're back to the fact that it's all down to the listener.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#38
Quote by Lemoninfluence
so the evidence is in the nuances?

and every player has nuances (that's a fact, no 2 players hands will move exactly the same). so surely every player creates evidence you just have to be able to understand it. in which case we're back to the fact that it's all down to the listener.


Sure, every player has some nuances in his playing. But only a handful of people have nuances which invoke a response in the player. Whether or not a piece invokes an emotional response is more or less subjective, but we are still all human, and thus certain stimuli are likely to create a similar response in individuals of all kinds. It's like breaking up w/ someone. If you break up with someone, anyone is likely to feel some sadness or anxiety (assuming they were someone who actually mattered and not just some bitchy fake girl).

A soulful guitarist is able to create this stimuli and inspire some sort of feeling in the listener.
Gear:
.Fender Classic Series '70s Stratocaster
.Peavey Classic 30
.Xotic BB Preamp
.MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay
.Vox V847A Wah
.Boss RC-2 Loop Station
.Washburn WI-24 (first guitar )
#39
Quote by sashki
Here's a crowd favourite, John Petrucci
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVmq2C5kLoM

When I listen to that, I don't know if it's got soul or not. I just know that I like it. He doesn't really look like a typical soulful player in this video. Instead, he looks like he's concentrated on what he's doing.

Does that qualify him as being soulless? Or is he only soulless in the eyes of a Frusciante fan?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcadgg6uJkU
I fooking love this one.
#40
Quote by RyanDV
Sure, every player has some nuances in his playing. But only a handful of people have nuances which invoke a response in the player.

I'll assume you mean listener, in which case every person is different. if people can get turned on by dead bodies, someone can be moved emotionally by uneven vibrato, slightly underbent notes, sloppy sweeping, noisily bashing the strings etc.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
Page 1 of 3