#1
Well, something is bothering me because I still don't get it.
This is translation of the verdict from a dutch lesson about chords. What is bold is what I don't get

When you see a song with the following chords: A - D - E you should see immediately: the A is the Degree I, the D is Degree IV and de E is Degree V. So this chords fit in the key of A (A-ionic).


When you stumble upon chords in the music which fit in the same key, You can solo over it in that key. When you face A D E you can solo with the tones from the scale A ionic (the tones from the scales of D-lydisch and E-mixolydisch are after all also in A-ionic). Then you have 7 tones which will always sound good over those chords
so when the E chord is played you can use the 7 tones of the mixo scale?


end
-

So I tried to understand it by writing down the scale of D#

d# f g g# a# c d d#

The song Today by The Smashing Pumpkins is written in D#
A chord progression in today is ths F G# C
I made those bold in the scale and that looked logic..... but I don't understand the hell of it

Also, the song might be in D#, it also uses other notes. Does that mean it's in a mode or something ?
Sorry that I'm that vague. I'm a dutchie
Thank you very much!
Quote by razorback91
Im sorry, I just don't see how you could argue that hardcore isn't metal. That just seems arrogant to me.

Yes, its its own kind of metal, but its still metal.
#2
You picked a really odd scale to start with - the designation D# is hardly ever used, you'd nearly always refer to it as Eb, it's the right key for the song though.

Eb F G Ab Bb C D

Also bear in mind that you can't use the same note twice in a scale.

Start with C major for learning about scales because it has no sharps or flats.

C D E F G A B
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
Last edited by steven seagull at Aug 9, 2008,
#3
I know some theory about scales. And I know the theory of modes but not how to use it.
Thanks a lot but my questions are still unanswered
Quote by razorback91
Im sorry, I just don't see how you could argue that hardcore isn't metal. That just seems arrogant to me.

Yes, its its own kind of metal, but its still metal.
Last edited by 08L1V10N at Aug 9, 2008,
#4
Quote by 08L1V10N
Well, something is bothering me because I still don't get it.
This is translation of the verdict from a dutch lesson about chords. What is bold is what I don't get

When you see a song with the following chords: A - D - E you should see immediately: the A is the Degree I, the D is Degree IV and de E is Degree V. So this chords fit in the key of A (A-ionic).


When you stumble upon chords in the music which fit in the same key, You can solo over it in that key. When you face A D E you can solo with the tones from the scale A ionic (the tones from the scales of D-lydisch and E-mixolydisch are after all also in A-ionic). Then you have 7 tones which will always sound good over those chords
so when the E chord is played you can use the 7 tones of the mixo scale?


end
-

So I tried to understand it by writing down the scale of D#

d# f g g# a# c d d#

The song Today by The Smashing Pumpkins is written in D#
A chord progression in today is ths F G# C
I made those bold in the scale and that looked logic..... but I don't understand the hell of it

Also, the song might be in D#, it also uses other notes. Does that mean it's in a mode or something ?
Sorry that I'm that vague. I'm a dutchie
Thank you very much!


the guy who wrote the lesson is talking about an easy way to find suitable notes to play over over diatonic chords... i.e. chords that fall within a particular key...

the example he gave was in the key of A major and he was saying that if you have chords of A, D and E, you ought to immediately recognize that your 'home' key is A major, because only A major has those 3 chords in it

he was saying that, over each of those chords, you can choose notes from A major (or its modal relatives D lydian or E mixolydian) as these are the 'diatonic' notes for that key. Modally, A major is also known as 'A ionian'

now that's an oversimplification of how to chose notes over chords, but it's a generally guide for how to play diatonically (i.e. from within the key you're in)


The problem with this is that lots of songs don't just have notes and chords that are diatonic... I have no idea what 'Today' goes like, but if it's in Eb and made up of entirely diatonic chords (i.e. Eb, Fm, Gm, Ab, Bb7, Cm Dm7b5 etc), then what they guy is saying is that you can choose the 7 notes from Eb major (or a modal relative such as F dorian or Bb mixolydian) as the notes to play over any of these chords...

but you've said that Today has an F, Ab and C in it... if that F and that C are indeed major chords, then they're outside of the key of Eb (because you would expect Fm and Cm) and the guys little 'rule of thumb' doesn't work any more... they're non-diatonic chords and what he's saying doesn't work over them, as you've quite rightly spotted

in cases like that, if you still want to have a 'bag of notes' to choose from, you would generally analyze how the chord differs from the chord you were expecting, and change the notes of the mode accordingly... so over that chord of F major (where you would expect an F minor), instead of choosing the notes from F dorian, you'd probably want to consider the notes from F mixolydian (because it's just like dorian except with a major 3rd)

but the notes you choose depend on lots of other things... as a musician you should know what the song's vocal melody does over those changes and consider using some of THAT in your solo... if the chords are non-diatonic, it's usually for a good reason.. and that good reason usually is often to support a change in melody to highlight a lyrical point... so don't just go... 'whoo.. non-diatonic chord, I must whizz up and down THIS or THAT scale...'.. think about how & why it's there, and the right notes to play are usually self evident
Last edited by inflatablefilth at Aug 9, 2008,
#5
Quote by 08L1V10N
Well, something is bothering me because I still don't get it.
This is translation of the verdict from a dutch lesson about chords. What is bold is what I don't get

When you see a song with the following chords: A - D - E you should see immediately: the A is the Degree I, the D is Degree IV and de E is Degree V. So this chords fit in the key of A (A-ionic).


When you stumble upon chords in the music which fit in the same key, You can solo over it in that key. When you face A D E you can solo with the tones from the scale A ionic (the tones from the scales of D-lydisch and E-mixolydisch are after all also in A-ionic). Then you have 7 tones which will always sound good over those chords
so when the E chord is played you can use the 7 tones of the mixo scale?


end
-

So I tried to understand it by writing down the scale of D#

d# f g g# a# c d d#

The song Today by The Smashing Pumpkins is written in D#
A chord progression in today is ths F G# C
I made those bold in the scale and that looked logic..... but I don't understand the hell of it

Also, the song might be in D#, it also uses other notes. Does that mean it's in a mode or something ?
Sorry that I'm that vague. I'm a dutchie
Thank you very much!


The key of A major contains the chords:
A - Bm - C#m - D - E - F#m - G#dim

When your ears hear a chord progression, they try to hear it in the most orderly way (they try to hear each as belonging to the same key). So if your ears hear A-D-E, they will hear it as a I-IV-V in the key of A major. Try playing the progression; you'll hear the resolution when you move from E to A.

The A-D-E progression is in no way modal, so when you solo over it, you're playing A major, not any mode. You might try adding a few chromatic tones (notes outside the key), but the harmony still says A major. The statement "you have 7 tones which will always sound good over those chords" is misleading. Those are the safest tones, yes, but WHEN you play the tones is more important.

Looking at that Smashing Pumpkins song: I'm not too familiar with the song, but those chords aren't all in any one key. What I think might be going on is that the overall movement is in F major, with the G# (Ab?) chord only being used in passing. So you have a chord progression of I-bIII-V in F major. I'm not sure about that, so don't take my word on it.
known as Jeff when it really matters